The Vilification Of Renting?

[JimMIA]

If a man stops traffic to allow a mother duck and her ducklings to cross, and the man chooses to do this because of his beliefs, and his beliefs are not in his direct control, does this person really have free will?

If a man makes a statement deep in a forest, and his wife is not there to hear what he said...is he still wrong?

 

[jekjones1558]

If a man makes a statement deep in a forest, and his wife is not there to hear what he said...is he still wrong?

Yes, of course, always!

 

[JimMIA]

Yes, of course, always!

I suspected as much. Thanks for the clarification, Jean!

 

[Dean]

Well, I didn't stop traffic. However, as I was walking back from (the former) MGM to the Boardwalk, I stopped to let the little critters cross the sidewalk. And, from my free will, took their picture!

OT I'm sure but we did have a lady get killed on the highway doing exactly this type of thing.

 

[eyeheartgoofy]

I would think that the number of members with small add-ons (less than 150 points) has more to do with availability difficulties during popular times than renting does. A member with enough points to book 2 or 3 nights at the 11 month window and who then waitlists for the rest of their nights at the 7 month window or books another resort for the rest of the nights, effectively prevents other members booking at 11 months from getting their entire week. It's a loophole that definitely affects availability and as I said, probably to a greater extent than renting does.

Huh? Anyone can book at their home resort 11 months in advance. I would think that the person who was able to book their entire stay 11 months out would have the advantage over a person who was only able to book a portion of their stay at 11 months.

 

[mjy]

OT I'm sure but we did have a lady get killed on the highway doing exactly this type of thing.

We left the "topic boat" a long time ago on this thread, Dean.

That's very sad, though. A lot of people die making way for animals.

Gosh, to get back on topic, should I vilify a renter or two?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I agree with Dean that some members have probably been complaining about commercial renters tieing up prime weeks/locations. We've definitely seen in the last year what I would consider a LOT of complaints that many reservations that used to be easy to get at 7 months or "last minute" are no longer available, so that could be adding to it.

My guess is that the inclusion of point renting in "WDW on the Cheap" kind of guidebooks has increased those wanting to get in on a great deal.

The continued acceptance and validity of doing business on the internet with strangers (not even corporations) is adding fuel to the fire.

And on a note, Disney no doubt sees that while they increase resort prices every year, the price to rent points hasn't changed much in the five years I've looked at it.

So the "deal" that people get renting points grows into a better deal each year. Maybe it's something that is actually affecting resort cash reservations? Or least is perceived to be a contributor?

(If this has already been stated, sorry, I am only on page 2!!) I think you hit the nail on the head Granny. This would be one reason I could see DVD increasing the points for the new resorts....otherwise, the gap between points and cash will continue to increase, thus only enhancing the demand for point rentals, and prices people will pay for them.

 

[snowbunny]

I would think that the number of members with small add-ons (less than 150 points) has more to do with availability difficulties during popular times than renting does.

Oh lovely...let's move on to *the villification of small-contract owners*

 

[Dean]

Oh lovely...let's move on to *the villification of small-contract owners*

OK by me or large contracts owners that also tend to book multiple rooms, have multiple people on the phone, or those that buy one resort with the express plan to reserve another for most or all trips, etc. The truth is the system is what it is. As long as everyone tries to follow the rules it will work or not work as it was intended and as we knew or should have known, before we all bought. The idea that certain people assumed that everyone was buying for the same reason as they themselves is simply wrong, people had all types of ideas and plans when they bought in, some with the intention of buying more points and renting to cover their costs.

 

[CatStarr]

Well I have been reading this thread for a couple of days now and I am sure that I have missed things. Yesterday I made my first transfer of points to another member. Last year I rented a long week-end to a stranger. I am a single lady and have more points than I can use. (430) I am not by any means a person who specs on renting and booking with the intent of renting later. I bought the number of points I have simply to be able to leave my children enough to each have a week a year. Right now I want to rent what I can not use to help pay my fees.

I was a bit distressed to find that I can not transfer any more points for a year. That seemed so much easier to do rather than trying to coordinate a week for somebody else. Plus it was for a fellow member. Does this run use year to use year or is it on a calendar year basis?

One thing that I did pick up on was the calling of MS to check availability, is there not a way that Disney could set this up so that you could do it online? That would eliminate the need of calling MS, freeing up phone lines and such. Its just a thought.

 

[Dean]

Well I have been reading this thread for a couple of days now and I am sure that I have missed things. Yesterday I made my first transfer of points to another member. Last year I rented a long week-end to a stranger. I am a single lady and have more points than I can use. (430) I am not by any means a person who specs on renting and booking with the intent of renting later. I bought the number of points I have simply to be able to leave my children enough to each have a week a year. Right now I want to rent what I can not use to help pay my fees.

I was a bit distressed to find that I can not transfer any more points for a year. That seemed so much easier to do rather than trying to coordinate a week for somebody else. Plus it was for a fellow member. Does this run use year to use year or is it on a calendar year basis?

One thing that I did pick up on was the calling of MS to check availability, is there not a way that Disney could set this up so that you could do it online? That would eliminate the need of calling MS, freeing up phone lines and such. Its just a thought.

They are reportedly working on an online reservation option. To minimize your work and aggravation to MS, many of us don't call until we have an agreement in principle and can therefore book at the time of the call.

 

[jarestel]

Huh? Anyone can book at their home resort 11 months in advance. I would think that the person who was able to book their entire stay 11 months out would have the advantage over a person who was only able to book a portion of their stay at 11 months.

I never said that members weren't within their rights to book their home resort at 11 months for as many (or as few) nights as they wish. Only that this practice, IMO, probably contributes more to the "lack of availability" perception than renting does.

The point is that if enough people book partial weeks (Sun-Tues) at 11 months, (which many members do during busy times) this prevents the member who wants to book an entire stay without waitlisting from doing so. So to that member, there is no availability regardless of whether the member has enough points to book an entire week or not.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Here is a website that promotes DVC renting....http://www.dvcrequest.com/default.asp?id=GB-dvcnews&gclid=CKS_zoq6npECFQmgGgodoGsaPg

So, is this legal, not? Disney is aware I am sure. So if this is allowed, why are the individual members being restricted, even if its just in limited transfers, primary name on ressie not changed, etc.?

 

[Chuck S]

Here is a website that promotes DVC renting....http://www.dvcrequest.com/default.asp?id=GB-dvcnews&gclid=CKS_zoq6npECFQmgGgodoGsaPg

So, is this legal, not? Disney is aware I am sure. So if this is allowed, why are the individual members being restricted, even if its just in limited transfers, primary name on ressie not changed, etc.?

Foreign based websites may be difficult, if not impossible, to shut down. The easiest, and probably most effective way to move against that type of site is to restrict the reservations at the source, when they call to reserve.

 

[TisBit]

Here is a website that promotes DVC renting....http://www.dvcrequest.com/default.asp?id=GB-dvcnews&gclid=CKS_zoq6npECFQmgGgodoGsaPg

So, is this legal, not? Disney is aware I am sure. So if this is allowed, why are the individual members being restricted, even if its just in limited transfers, primary name on ressie not changed, etc.?

Mainly because even these sites are using individual members accounts. If they restrict the way reservations are made, it also restricts the way these middleman operations between members and renters operate.

A little OT, but especially on past discussions, I am not so sure that these sites/middlemen are the problem and a real concern of Disney. I would think that Disney would be more concerned with the actual member that is using them. I think any reaction from Disney would be more harsh language about using a "broker" for renting.

 

[DVC Mike]

Q: When a DVC member rents out their points, are they required to collect the 12.5% lodging tax (Florida State Sales Tax of 6.5%, Orange County Occupancy Tax of 6%)?

All the web sites I see that rent out timeshares and vacation homes all collect this. Must DVC members do this as well?

 

[DVC Mike]

Q: When a DVC member rents out their points, are they required to collect the 12.5% lodging tax (Florida State Sales Tax of 6.5%, Orange County Occupancy Tax of 6%)?

All the web sites I see that rent out timeshares and vacation homes all collect this. Must DVC members do this as well?

A person on another site PM'd me with this link:
http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/r..._property.html

If I read the information on the site correctly, it looks like DVC members who rent out their points should be collecting the tax. It says:

Persons who rent or lease any of the following types of transient accommodations must collect sales tax and remit it to the Department of Revenue:

• Timeshare resort

So, looking at the big picture, how profitable can it really be to be a "commercial renter"?

Once you factor in the cost of your points, carrying costs (either mortgage interest or lost income on the original investment), the 12.5% use tax, as well as federal/state income tax, it would seem you would be lucky just to break even!

Ahh, unless the "commercial renters" aren't paying any taxes! Then, I guess it would be profitable?

 

[Brian Noble]

At $10pp net rental proceeds, a $75pp OKW contract returns about 7.5% or so on invested capital.

That's not bad, but there are a LOT of timeshares out there that can do a lot better. I can trivially rent my entire Wyndham holdings to other owners for about 12%, and could potentially do a lot better by booking units and renting to the public.

Also, don't forget that if you are renting, you should also be filing a Schedule C. The figures above are before-tax returns, which seems a fair number to compare to other investment outcomes. But, rental income is going to be taxed at your full marginal rate, as opposed to the more favorable capital gains rate that many other investments might offer.

 

[JimMIA]

A little OT, but especially on past discussions, I am not so sure that these sites/middlemen are the problem and a real concern of Disney. I would think that Disney would be more concerned with the actual member that is using them. I think any reaction from Disney would be more harsh language about using a "broker" for renting.

I tend to agree with you, for two reasons.

The first is, it would be hard to quantify that a "broker" was really generating any rentals that would not occur without the broker's services. So, in that sense, possibly a broker is no more of a problem than the various guidebooks and website which recommend renting as an effective cost-saving strategy for vacationers.

The second is, it seems to me there would be more legal issues in taking action directly against the broker than going after the accounts being used.

I guess DVC could make the argument that the broker is operating a website, clearly is conducting a commercial operation which appears to be exclusively for DVC rentals, and therefore they have justification to remove him from any accounts where he's listed as an associate. I'm not a lawyer, but that logic sounds a little thin to me.

However, if I offer my points for rent through a broker who operates a commercial website, and I list that person as an associate on my account for the sole purpose of renting points, it seems pretty clear that my account is being used for commercial purpose. (I don't do that, just using an example)

I would really expect DVC to go after their own account holders, rather than some outside party -- partly because they're easier to sanction, and also because it seems to me they'd be on more solid legal ground.

 

[Blahnde]

Also, don't forget that if you are renting, you should also be filing a Schedule C.

Actually, depending upon your intent behind renting your points, you are much more likely to have to file a Schedule E, not a Schedule C. Schedule C is for a sole-proprietorship business, and if you have an actual business that involves renting you may use this form ... and you may have Disney after you for commercial renting! However, most "casual" renters would use Schedule E. The big difference is that if you use Schedule C. you will have to pay Self-Employment tax (Social Security and Medicare) on the income. With Schedule E (which is designed for passive rental real estate income) you do not have to pay this extra 15.3%!

This form is much more user friendly for this purpose, too, because it creates a personal use/rental use ratio that is then used to prorate the various expenses that you are not allowed to take as an owner, i.e. non-property tax portion of dues, depreciation, postage, long distance phone calls, etc. You would also deduct the rental portion of the property taxes on Schedule E, while the personal portion would go on Schedule A. As an aside, Schedule A is where all the property tax would go if you were not renting your points.

As always, talk to your own tax adviser. Rental income is taxable, but let them help you with how to account for it on your return.

Blahnde