The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[tidefan]

I'm not "fear mongering." I'm expressing an opinion.

Regarding surveys, and masks, I can recall being told that if most people wore masks, the virus would virtually go away. So, if 88% will get the vaccine and WILL continue wearing masks, I guess that "expert opinion" was wrong.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...drive-this-epidemic-to-the-ground/ar-BB16MQ2n
Also, this article says that masks may be around a long time (maybe forever), even after a vaccine is available, because it is not known how long the vaccines will be effective. Following is a salient quote: "In addition, there’s a possibility that vaccines may not work on some people. Also, it is not known how long the protection will last after vaccination."

https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/...ter-a-vaccine-is-available-icmr-chief-783204/

On a side note... I don't EVER see anyone out and about without masks anymore, and that's here in Alabama. In fact, I'd say the last time I can remember seeing someone out (not counting walking in the subdivision way away from anybody) was early summer... I don't think mask adherence is near the issue it was, at least around here.

 

[jane01jp]

On a side note... I don't EVER see anyone out and about without masks anymore, and that's here in Alabama. In fact, I'd say the last time I can remember seeing someone out (not counting walking in the subdivision way away from anybody) was early summer... I don't think mask adherence is near the issue it was, at least around here.

Then why hasn't the pandemic been "driven to the ground," like the CDC director said it would?

 

[jane01jp]

Which will only prolong the misery. Quite simply, if people get vaccinated when their “number” is called, and don’t act like turds because we don’t know the viral shedding component if they do contract the virus but don’t get ill, we should see dramatic drops in infection by mid-summer.

We’ll hopefully see dramatic changes very soon, like mid to late spring soon, in hospitalizations and deaths if the most vulnerable and most at-risk by means of work environment participate. It is then that I potentially see some loosening of distancing requirements and return to travel.

This isn’t a game of getting to zero. It’s a game of getting to a manageable level. And we can do our part by getting vaccinated, because your kids’ piano teacher battling cancer or the immune compromised MS patient working at Target are counting on you to help them.

So anyone who doesn't want to get the vaccine is a "turd"? SMH.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

So anyone who doesn't want to get the vaccine is a "turd"? SMH.

No, those who run around anti-masking and flaunting it at this point are not helping. Those who get on planes and belligerently state they don’t need to be decent because “I’ve been sick. 99% survival! PlAnDeMiC! Don’t be oppressed!” They’re who I’m referencing.

My family and I have been participating in society as allowed locally. Heading to a movie again tonight. But if people weren’t so dang belligerent in their behavior we’d all be in better shape. And, you’re right in that a number of people are going to receive a vaccine and then think it’s carte Blanche to behave like menaces in their local Costco. It will get ugly, unfortunately.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

On a side note... I don't EVER see anyone out and about without masks anymore, and that's here in Alabama. In fact, I'd say the last time I can remember seeing someone out (not counting walking in the subdivision way away from anybody) was early summer... I don't think mask adherence is near the issue it was, at least around here.

Count your blessings. Here in cattle country it’s maybe 80% and falling rapidly.

 

[AquaDame]

Then why hasn't the pandemic been "driven to the ground," like the CDC director said it would?

Unfortunately the virus has already spread and people continue keep low guard around their friends and family. I just had another argument with my mother again this morning - she wanted to exchange gifts in one of our houses when we've made it this long without doing that and argued all summer about only seeing them masked and outdoors. She hasn't admitted it, but I know she was invited to both her brother's (who had it at the end of October) and sister's for Thanksgiving and now with her attitude about 'just come inside!' I'm thinking they did so even though SHE is the one with lung issues, and a large part of why we've been so careful.

I think most knew things would likely get worse once the weather turned and we all went back indoors... Im still sad to be experiencing that. It used to be family and friend of so-and-so had caught it, now its our own friends, and coworkers and family members recently.

 

[AquaDame]

No, those who run around anti-masking and flaunting it at this point are turds. Those who get on planes and belligerently state they don’t need to be decent because “I’ve been sick. 99% survival! PlAnDeMiC! Don’t be oppressed!” They’re turds.

My family and I have been participating in society as allowed locally. Heading to a movie again tonight. But if people weren’t so dang belligerent in their behavior we’d all be in better shape. And, you’re right in that a number of people are going to receive a vaccine and then think it’s carte Blanche to behave like menaces in their local Costco. It will get ugly, unfortunately.

Name calling is not welcome here - please voice your opinions in a respectable manner.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

Name calling is not welcome here - please voice your opinions in a respectable manner.

Noted and I’ll edit. Apologies.

 

[Minnie1222]

Then why hasn't the pandemic been "driven to the ground," like the CDC director said it would?

1. The virus should have been taken seriously in December 2019, but we waited until March 2020 to act. By that time, it had already established itself among the population.
2. We are one of the wealthiest and most technologically-advanced countries in the world, yet some of our healthcare workers had to wear trash bags as PPE, due to a shortage of everything.
3. We have too many uncooperative, uninformed, and ignorant residents.
The list goes on...

 

[jane01jp]

1. The virus should have been taken seriously in December 2019, but we waited until March 2020 to act. By that time, it had already established itself among the population.
2. We are one of the wealthiest and most technologically-advanced countries in the world, yet some of our healthcare workers had to wear trash bags as PPE, due to a shortage of everything.
3. We have too many uncooperative, uninformed, and ignorant residents.
The list goes on...

OK. But:
1. The CDC director made his comment about driving the virus to the ground in July of 2020, so he must have thought that it could still be done (btw, I was in Disneyland in California in late February, and it was still open - I think until March 12).
2. Again, was that the case in July, when the director of the CDC made his comment?
3. The comment to which I was responding said that virtually everyone wears masks.

 

[jane01jp]

No, those who run around anti-masking and flaunting it at this point are not helping. Those who get on planes and belligerently state they don’t need to be decent because “I’ve been sick. 99% survival! PlAnDeMiC! Don’t be oppressed!” They’re who I’m referencing.

My family and I have been participating in society as allowed locally. Heading to a movie again tonight. But if people weren’t so dang belligerent in their behavior we’d all be in better shape. And, you’re right in that a number of people are going to receive a vaccine and then think it’s carte Blanche to behave like menaces in their local Costco. It will get ugly, unfortunately.

I know you mean well, but those with whom you disagree won't be won over by being angry with them. There will always be some remnant, however small, of people who have ideas that others consider fringe.

 

[Minnie1222]

OK. But:
1. The CDC director made his comment about driving the virus to the ground in July of 2020, so he must have thought that it could still be done.
2. Again, was that the case in July, when the director of the CDC made his comment?
3. The comment to which I was responding said that virtually everyone wears masks.

Oh! Him? I stopped paying attention to him a long time ago.
That man is too optimistic about the virus. Not sure if he was truly misguided or was instructed to act a certain way.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

I know you mean well, but those with whom you disagree won't be won over by being angry with them. There will always be some remnant, however small, of people who have ideas that others consider fringe.

In this we agree. And I know how some people will behave. This afternoon my irritation with the fringe to which you refer came to a head. If it came across as toward you, I apologize.
The best way out of this is vaccination. I know some will be hesitant, and that’s honestly ok. But, knowing that people will lie about vaccination status to ditch other measures is why they’ll probably last longer than you or I would consider necessary. It’s why WDW has been successful overall in their reopening, by not allowing variance or exception to their mask rules.
Specifically to cruising, I see vaccinations being mandated the same way. No exceptions or variance. It will put a lot of people off, no doubt. Some will really vocally cry foul. But I think international port authorities will require it and force the industry’s hand. What will really drive people nuts is that even though all 16 or 18 and up being vaccinated and they’ll still ask kids in youth clubs and all guests in indoor theaters (possibly) to mask up. It’s a price I’m willing to pay, but we’ve been far more uncomfortable in Disney World twice since reopening.

 

[jane01jp]

In this we agree. And I know how some people will behave. This afternoon my irritation with the fringe to which you refer came to a head. If it came across as toward you, I apologize.
The best way out of this is vaccination. I know some will be hesitant, and that’s honestly ok. But, knowing that people will lie about vaccination status to ditch other measures is why they’ll probably last longer than you or I would consider necessary. It’s why WDW has been successful overall in their reopening, by not allowing variance or exception to their mask rules.
Specifically to cruising, I see vaccinations being mandated the same way. No exceptions or variance. It will put a lot of people off, no doubt. Some will really vocally cry foul. But I think international port authorities will require it and force the industry’s hand. What will really drive people nuts is that even though all 16 or 18 and up being vaccinated and they’ll still ask kids in youth clubs and all guests in indoor theaters (possibly) to mask up. It’s a price I’m willing to pay, but we’ve been far more uncomfortable in Disney World twice since reopening.

I'm not taking any personal offense. I hold quite a few dissident views.

I sense a lot of frustration, on the parts of many of the commenters here, that others cannot be forced into adopting their views or conforming to their behaviors.

I wonder how far some would go to force others into compliance if they had their "druthers," so to speak. Fines? Imprisonment? Forced "re-education"? Driver's licenses revoked? Having the peoples' children taken from them? Having their assets frozen? I've seen all of these suggested in one forum or another.

 

[jane01jp]

Oh! Him? I stopped paying attention to him a long time ago.
That man is too optimistic about the virus. Not sure if he was truly misguided or was instructed to act a certain way.

Minnie, good answer!

So, if "experts" can be too optimistic/pessimistic, misguided, or instructed to act in a certain way, does that mean that there can be experts with differing opinions, competing agenda, or other motivations?

 

[tidefan]

Then why hasn't the pandemic been "driven to the ground," like the CDC director said it would?

I think that in ways, the mask message has been "too effective". Just because we have masks on does NOT mean you should be 1 foot behind me checking out at the grocery...

 

[jane01jp]

I think that in ways, the mask message has been "too effective". Just because we have masks on does NOT mean you should be 1 foot behind me checking out at the grocery...

tidefan, that is a worthy response, that at least logically hangs together.

 

[Joe Brig]

I'm at Disney this week and everyone has a mask, but almost no one has a properly fitted medical grade mask. Most people are breathing and expelling unfiltered air from the sides of the mask and not through the mask material. On the positive side all face coverings do prevent people from touching their mouth and nose frequently. No masks needed in restaurants or pools though, not sure what to make of that.

 

[Minnie1222]

So, if "experts" can be too optimistic/pessimistic, misguided, or instructed to act in a certain way, does that mean that there can be experts with differing opinions, competing agenda, or other motivations?

Different opinions? Yes
Competing agenda? Yes
Motivations? Yes

Can you force an expert with integrity to alter the facts? No

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I'm at Disney this week and everyone has a mask, but almost no one has a properly fitted medical grade mask. Most people are breathing and expelling unfiltered air from the sides of the mask and not through the mask material. On the positive side all face coverings do prevent people from touching their mouth and nose frequently. No masks needed in restaurants or pools though, not sure what to make of that.

The purpose of wearing a mask is not so that no air can escape; it's so that when you cough, sneeze, laugh, talk, etc. no droplets from your mouth or nose can escape. In this instance we wear a mask more to protect others, just in case we have covid, but not yet showing any signs or symptoms. It varies, but there are a few days where people are contagious but don't know they have it so they are innocently passing it on to others. They offers some protection from others with covid but controlling/absorbing the droplets of contagious people is the main purpose of everyone wearing a mask. (It is spread by droplets.)

The N95 masks that healthcare workers wear have a tight seal so that no air escapes. We are fit tested for these at least once per year and one cannot wear these with facial hair. These are indeed protective for the wearer and this is worn by those providing care to covid patients or suspected covid. I work in an outpatient radiology group that is part of, but in a separate building from, the main hospital and we only need the surgical masks that loop around our ears. Our patients are screened for covid upon entry in our department so we are less likely to have contact with someone with covid.
Security gives everyone a medical-grade surgical mask upon entry into any of our buildings. People still stand there and argue with security about why should they have to wear one of ours when they have their own. omg. It drives me crazy. We don't give a darn if your pretty scarf-mask coordinates with your blouse; just put one on or don't enter. Security guards are not mask-judging experts to determine if someone's mask is medical grade or not. Believe me, our hospital would rather not have to spend $$ on this but it is the safest way to be able to continue to function.