The Sillys Journey into the Heart of Dorkness (new 12/15 - p. 23 criminy crackerswog)

Now good old Bertie, his moral relativism always troubled me, though he seemed like a reasonably nice guy (though Whitehead seemed nicer) and I have a lot of respect for both his participation in the peace movement, and his. He's a guy who always brought fun philosopher's gossip to tell about. I always found it odd that Monty Python's Philosophers' Drinking Song skipped him since he out-drank the rest by gallons a day. But you have to appreciate that he was an inspiration for Groucho Marx' "I don't want to be a member of any club that would accept me as a member."

I expect it was a bit hard on him having Gödel come along and not only demolish his magnum opus but essentially end all hope of the dreams that trends in Anglo-American thought Russell was a leading exponent of. There's a joke often told in Phil. depts., "How can you sum up Bertrand Russel's philosophy? Depends which day he was writing."

I'm certainly not claiming Russell was consistent -- he changed his thinking about as often as he changed his socks. But what he brought to the table was a determination to bring the discussion about thought down to a more basic, analytical level. Maybe it's the fact that I doubled in Philosophy and Economics, but I appreciate his desire to reduce our ways of thinking to more logical levels, with somewhat consistent rules (or, maybe it was the fact that I never could wrap my mind around metaphysics -- who's to say? On the other hand, I got an A+ in Symbolic Logic, so that explains a lot). As to your obsession with the Greeks, well, as I told H once, Aristotle rules (and Plato drools).

And to try to make up for that last post I offer this:

What's large grey and doesn't matter?
An irrelephant.

Now this is just plain funny.
 
Alert - Serious and Extreme Nerdliness ahead. Proceed at one's own peril.

I'm certainly not claiming Russell was consistent -- he changed his thinking about as often as he changed his socks. But what he brought to the table was a determination to bring the discussion about thought down to a more basic, analytical level. Maybe it's the fact that I doubled in Philosophy and Economics, but I appreciate his desire to reduce our ways of thinking to more logical levels, with somewhat consistent rules (or, maybe it was the fact that I never could wrap my mind around metaphysics -- who's to say?

I admire Russell's efforts to be as clear and focused as possible while pursuing a very difficult topic, and fully understand why he changed his mind on important questions more than a few times. The great questions in philosophy really are hard to answer well if one approaches them as rigorously as he did. I would say that Russell's problem was that, unlike his teacher Whitehead, he really didn't like metaphysics, and so while he really tried to avoid doing it, when you try to avoid doing something, you just wind up doing it badly. Whitehead had at least the equal logical rigor of Russell considering their joint authorship on the Principia (did you know they wrote it in Whitehead's kitchen because that was the only place they were allowed to work since Whitehead's wife couldn't stand Russell?), but he was also quite a bit more capable in dealing with the more difficult questions of metaphysics in a rigorous manner. While (as far as I understand him - he can be tough reading) I think I don't ultimately agree with him either for he seems like a neo-Hegelian trying so hard to bolt the absolute into nature that he even allows evolution in the absolute (which I regard as a very serious problem), I still hold a great deal of respect for him. He was truly both a deeply kind, wonderfully brilliant, and deeply thoughtful man who is very admirable to me. He was sort of the opposite of a Nietzsche. And as much as Nietzsche loathed Plato, Whitehead was fond of Plato, after all it was Whitehead who said, "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." Whitehead certainly disagreed with Plato on many points but he also followed him on many of the more important points. They were both idealistic, both fascinated with the philosophy of mathematics, both capable metaphysicians, both mystics, etc. I'd say it's too bad that Russell didn't follow him better, but I think the some differences between philosophers more given to the Platonic mode of thought vs. the Critical or the Skeptical might in the end be a difference of temperament - Plato appears to suggest as much in the Phaedrus, and Plotinus and laters followed him on that. Those contemplatives with more musical/creative souls seem to inevitably be drawn into some kind of Platonizing, while those inclined in other ways will wind up answering the really fundamental questions quite differently and from there differ in how systems of thought such as cynicism, skepticism, relativism, reductionism, naturalism, positivism, etc. will evolve. I could be wrong about that, I'd be happy if I was.

On the other hand, I got an A+ in Symbolic Logic, so that explains a lot).
I very much enjoyed studying Symbolic Logic. I aced the first year and a few of us in the course got the Prof. to do schedule a third semester of Logic so we could keep going, though I admit things did get pretty hairy a few times in that last course. I think that's why I wound up liking Comp. Sci. so much, since you can see the rudiments of Boolean logic used in C.S. in many places on various higher and lower levels. To push the envelope of nerdiness, the computer itself and the structures that were worked out to enable modern digital computing are an attempt at making a mathematical calculator out of a logic system, so the issues that Boole, Russell, Gödel, and later mathematical philosophers were wrestling with actually had an influence on the ideas behind the design of modern computing.

As to your obsession with the Greeks, well, as I told H once, Aristotle rules (and Plato drools).

You know what's funny is that I don't have a poor regard for Aristotle at all, I just have a higher regard of Plato. The later Platonists after Aristotle really regarded the differences between Plato and Aristotle as mostly just a disagreement about the critical questions of whether there is a good in itself and a one in itself, and whether they are the same (along with some resulting epistemological and ontological differences). You might not be familiar with the works of Plotinus (he's not studied too often these days, alas), he was the first of the great Platonists after Aristotle (the "Middle Platonists" are very interesting but are not nearly as interesting as the "Neoplatonists"). Plotinus held that Plato and Aristotle were quite close in thought mostly differing in the previously mentioned points, and offered a critique of Aristotle's critiques of Plato's Good/One, a a critique of Aristotle's critique of the Platonic idea of the nature of Being in itself, but at the same time Plotinus and later Platonists incorporated a great deal of Aristotelian thought, though always using it Platonically, thus Plato's Forms are pure actualities, while the realm of the forms is pure act, self-contemplative thought (noesis noeseos), and the highest and most perfect substantiality. Many scholars say it would be as correct to call Neoplatonism Neo-Aristotelianism. It was assumed by most later Platonists that since Aristotle was Plato's pupil and knew Plato in person rather than just through his writings that he was really just a Platonist who made a few errors which caused him to disagree with Plato on a few points while still holding a largely Platonic view. When Proclus (the last great greek philosopher and a favorite of Leibniz, Spinoza, Hegel and others due to the logical rigor of his works), was first being trained at the Academy he studied the works of Aristotle, studying logic, epistemology, physics, metaphysic as the "lesser mysteries" then once he mastered those he turned to Plato, the "greater mysteries." So I'm kind of an Aristotelian, I just think there are a couple of errors he made in his metaphysics that should be corrected.
 
the "Middle Platonists" are very interesting but are not nearly as interesting as the "Neoplatonists"

Personally, I don't like Neoplatonists -- I much prefer my ice cream to be all one flavor, thank you very much.
 

Whoa, Mr. Silly. You had me at Pal-Hegel.

Can I get graduate credits for reading this report?

Are there Cliff's Notes?
 
Cookie sales are over, Pinewood Derby is over, the blizzard of 2007 in Texas is over

popcorn:: popcorn::

sooooooo :dance3: :dance3:
 
/
Trip Report Section 12, in which a most excellent thing is found.

First, H. is still busy, so I am giving up on waiting for her comments. I sent this to her in Dec. She said she wanted to add some stuff about the meet that occurred after the last segment ended. But she hasn't had time, and won't still for a while. So you can just assume that she had a swell time and leave it at that.

And second, a quick announcement, we have a great new interactive feature, though it's so good that it must be used very sparingly to prevent it suffering an early demise. In fact, in order to protect it's originality and general amazingness (and amusingness), it must be used so incredibly sparingly, that I can currently neither tell you what the feature is called, nor even what the feature is. And you can trust me when I say that it's great.

Finally, I am very pleased to announce that we have reached the section of the trip report where we can consult Sophie's notes that she took as we were in Disneyworld. After she saw me wandering around with a notebook scribbling entries now and then, and occasionally giggling, she decided that this looked like a fun thing to do. So we got her a notebook and she started taking notes on this day, the day we go to the Magic Kingdom with an Extra Magic Hour.

Here is her account of our first little while in the MK:

"We are very late for Magic Kingdom. Max and dad sleeped in until 10:00. Dad takes forever to get a camera.

The magic kingdom is very crowded today. We are riding Pirates of the Caribbean. We rode Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. I miss cowboy a lot more in the pirates of the Caribbean line.

The line is very long for the pirates of the Caribbean ride. There are a lot of hidden mickeys on rides in the magic kingdom. There are pirates playing checkers that you can see through the window. You can see the same thing through all the windows. There are some cannon balls and cannons.

Please keep hands arms feet and legs inside the boat at all times and please no flash photography.

Push is a nice trash can. Push is a talking trash can that wants Maxes trash and he like empty soda cups. He lives in tomorrow land.

Me and dad are riding the People Mover and Max and mom are riding Space Mountain. We just saw people on Space Mountain riding, and boarding we saw Buzz lightyear line. The line for Buzz Lightyear is thirty minutes long. We are going to ride Buzz Lightyear with fast passes. After we ride Buzz Lightyear we are going to ride the Astro Orbiter."

Try as I might, any comments I come up with just seem positively dull compared to that, so there we are, and off we go to Section 13 where will use Sophia's material more sparingly. With the brilliance of a full blast like there are special kinds of difficulties that can arise, but I think that if we were to be more sparing in quoting, I'd expect that we can strike some kind of balance between yammering paternal gushing and an objective scientific analysis that only talks about things that can be expressed mathematically. But this is now. And for now we are still in segment 12, when we talked about going on to Segment 13 many many words ago. So adieu for now.
 
YAY, Mr. Silly is back!

Thought you guys were gone for good from the TR board.
Well, technically, only one is back. But nice fill-in from Sophia!

Say hi to Haley from me. Tell her I bought a box Thin Mints in her honor.
Really, I thought of her when I bought it, scouts honor!
 
I am glad that Mr. Silly, who is Mostly Harmless, is back to writing this trip report. :yay: :yay: :yay:
 
That little girl of yours can tell a tale :dance3: :dance3: :dance3:


She is sweet as can be and one of the Silly's that speak the English language as it was meant to be spoken :cool1: :cool1:


We want more Sophia :yay: :yay:

But you left out the part where we rode the bus together. Surely she had that in the notebook :confused3
 
Yay! The sillys returned. I must admit, I enjoyed Sophia's recaps. But what cowboy in the pirates line is she talking about? Does she remember?
Also, be sure you read Kay7979's report. Ya know how Utahmama said she liked shiny things after one of your philsophical debates? Kay is like the Mr. Silly for the rest of us. :)
I like to pretend I get all your references, but most fly way over my head.
Hers I usually get.
Except she hasn't compared herself yet to the antithesis of the guy from Hitchhiker's who was followed by the rain cloud.
Maybe she should.
But anyway.
Yay for the sillys! And yay for us for getting to read it.
 
Drive by to say. 8 more days and I am done with selling cookies for 11 months. Of course the final report may take an extra week.

Cowboy is the name of our dog, who we were missing that day. It was his first time at a kennel and we were worried he would be sad. We rescued him many moons ago and he came with the name, lucky for him. Mr. Silly would have named him something strange, I am sure.

We did ride the bus with Grammy! If I had not relied on others to take notes I would have mentioned that. Was that the morning we met up at Everything Pop to exchange shoes? Grammy and I have the same size foot. :cool2:
 
Sophie!~!!! You did a GREAT job with your notes!!! WOW, I understood every word! Thank you very much, lil' Silly! I think you and your mama are really cute and funny. Your daddy is very smart and funny. Cowboy is a good name for a dog. Silly dog!
 
Where's Section 13 again? I thought it was coming right up.

Brava, Sophia, on your note-taking! Thanks for helping get your parents jumpstarted and back on the boards.
 
In case anyone is wondering why there have been no updates, umm... well... I... sort of lost Sophie's notebook.

I am still looking for it.

I know where my notebook is.
 
In case anyone is wondering why there have been no updates, umm... well... I... sort of lost Sophie's notebook.

I am still looking for it.

I know where my notebook is.

Use your memory and wing it. With or without your notes, I know you'll write a fun and entertaining report. And if you mess up a few facts or details, we won't know. Or care. We just want another installment from the witty and wise Mr. Silly! :banana: :banana: :banana:
 
And if you mess up a few facts or details, we won't know. Or care.

Okay, well truth be told, I've already made up a few things... For instance, I've never really been to DisneyWorld. And I am actually a dog pretending to be a human (so easy to do on the internet). Well, actually two humans, both H. and Mr. S. But besides that the whole thing is true.
 
I'm glad to see you're here, but I need intellectual stimulation... The fun of looking things up in the dictionary and/or encyclopedia... The feeling that maybe I do have a brain after all, having dealt with 4 year olds all day... Where's the next installment?? :) Please... with sugar on top?
 

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