The Running Thread - 2021

[michigandergirl]

Is there a place online where one can find like...last years vests? I’ve been looking at the Nathan vests, but spending another $150+ and not knowing if it’ll fit or work long term is daunting. My local store does not have any in stock. Even looking on like...poshmark/ebay is iffy because people are selling JUST the vest and by the time I bought new things to hold water is almost be at new price.

I *think* I want one that has a reservoir on the back and pockets or something on the front (for my phone, any fuel stuff I might use, etc.)

I also recommend Amazon. I took a chance and ordered a Salomon hydration vest on the recommendation of a friend and it worked out. It has 2 soft water bottles in the front,1.5 L bladder in the back, and tons of pockets, like seriously so many pockets, it's fantastic should I ever need to fill them all.

I use the Salomon vest for trail running, but for road running I prefer my Fitletic 2 flask hydration belt, which is a much cooler option for sunny, hot, long road runs. It took me forever to find a hydration belt I liked, so I definitely took advantage of Amazon's return policy.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Krandor]

In the good news category, ATC has stated Peachtree road race is going to happen in-person this year but over two days vs 1 (JUly 3rd and 4th). Also they are not committing to a field size and did say it may not be the largest 10K in the world this year.

However if splitting over 2 days and reducing field size makes it possible to have the race in-person I'm down. At least it is something to look forward to.

 

[Krandor]

In reading more on PTRR, there is going to be limited field, longer course hours (so sounds like staggered starts will be in play), face covering strictly enforced when not running or walking (so corrals and after finishing), Water stations will be self-service (I'm guessing volunteers just filling cups and leaving them on trays for you to grab yourself but having to bring your own water bottle and being able to refill it is possible), and events at piedmont park where race finishes like ATC member tent won't happen.

Seems like reasonable adjustments. I just wonder how big a field they are going to try to do. Even if not the normal 60k they could be one of the biggest races that has run during covid and if so will be one to watch.

 

[Goofed98]

In reading more on PTRR, there is going to be limited field, longer course hours (so sounds like staggered starts will be in play), face covering strictly enforced when not running or walking (so corrals and after finishing), Water stations will be self-service (I'm guessing volunteers just filling cups and leaving them on trays for you to grab yourself but having to bring your own water bottle and being able to refill it is possible), and events at piedmont park where race finishes like ATC member tent won't happen.

Seems like reasonable adjustments. I just wonder how big a field they are going to try to do. Even if not the normal 60k they could be one of the biggest races that has run during covid and if so will be one to watch.

Um, is the Sweetwater table around mile three going to be self-serve? That could derail many a runner (if it is even still there)

 

[PrincessV]

Is there a place online where one can find like...last years vests? I’ve been looking at the Nathan vests, but spending another $150+ and not knowing if it’ll fit or work long term is daunting. My local store does not have any in stock. Even looking on like...poshmark/ebay is iffy because people are selling JUST the vest and by the time I bought new things to hold water is almost be at new price.

I *think* I want one that has a reservoir on the back and pockets or something on the front (for my phone, any fuel stuff I might use, etc.)

I got mine on sale from runningwarehouse.com. Worth a look! Free shipping & returns.

 

[bovie]

I got my on sale from Ultimate Direction for half of the original price, so around $50. It looks like they have a couple on sale right now. I really like it! It came with two bottles and I later bought a bladder. Unfortunately, he zipper is kinda messed up, I'm hoping I can fix it.

 

[Bree]

I concur with others. About 10-20 min of warm-up minimum and 10-15 min of cool-down minimum. What you do between matters somewhat on what you're trying to accomplish.

Are you preparing for a hilly race, then potentially tempo pace up and down the hill at set time duration? Like for example, for simplicity say it's 0.2 miles and your HM pace was a 9:20 min/mile. Depending on the grade of the hill would dictate how much off you would be on both the downhill and uphill and it isn't realistic to believe that is what you're going to do on race day as well. In general, uphill will cost you more time than you can make up on the downhill. But if you run it a few times and get a general idea from your Garmin (or Google Earth), then we can come up with a general sense. But for example's sake, let's say the combined effect of the uphill and downhill is a grade adjusted pace of +10 seconds. So flat HM Tempo of 9:20 = uphill and downhill of 0.4 miles at 9:30 pace. For HM Tempo, you could do intervals of 6 x 10 min, 4 x 15 min, 3 x 20 min, 2 x 30 min, 15+20+5+20+15 all with some rest breaks (maybe 1 min rest every 7.5 min run). Volume wise, I probably would limit it to 60-80 min of HM Tempo pace work at the very most. I typically try to stay under 60 min.

Now if you were aiming to just get in a hill workout that's for the purpose of building a different type of muscular endurance, you could do something like @michigandergirl is talking about. For that, here's a seven week sequence:

1.5 mile WU + 2 sets of 5 x Uphill (30s w/ 1 min RI between each) w/ 5 min RI between sets + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 10 x Uphill (30s w/ 1 min RI between each) + 1.5 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 5 x Uphill (60s w/ 2 min RI between each) + 1.5 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 3 x Uphill (90s w/ 3 min RI between each) + 1.5 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 5 x Uphill (30s w/ 1.5 min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 4 x Uphill Ladder (30s + 60s w/ Double rest min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 3 x Uphill Ladder (30s + 60s + 90s w/ Double rest min RI between each) + 1 mile CD

In this particular case the variable being manipulated is length of time running uphill and towards the end total volume of running uphill (starts off around 5 min and ends at around 9 min). The resting interval length (1 min per 30s) is mostly held constant, as is the pace of the run and rest. Like @GreatLakes mentions, the workout is done when you can no longer maintain a steady/consistent pace for each interval. Form matters when running uphill and a loss of form means the workout isn't doing it's intended purpose anymore. For this person, this leads into other training later for the goal race.

Or a different person with a slightly different desire:

1.5 mile WU + 2 sets of 5 x Uphill (30s w/ 1 min RI between each) w/ 4 min RI between sets + 1 mile CD
1 mile WU + 2 sets of 5 x Uphill (60s w/ 2 min RI between each) w/ 4 min RI between sets + 1 mile CD
2 mile WU + 10 x Uphill (60s w/ 2 min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1 mile WU + 5 x Uphill (30s w/ 1.5 min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 6 x Uphill (90s w/ 3 min RI between each) + 1.5 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 8 x Uphill Ladder (30s + 60s w/ Double rest min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 4 x Uphill Ladder (30s + 60s + 90s w/ Double rest min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 20 x Uphill (30s w/ 1 min RI between each) + 1 mile CD
1.5 mile WU + 5 x Uphill Ladder (30s + 60s + 90s w/ Double rest min RI between each) + 1 mile CD

This one is heavier on the volume, so I expect the relative pace/effort will be slower than the first person. Same rules apply though, if consistency of intervals fades, then it's time to stop. For this person, this is the primary purpose of training with the goal race coming after.

I ran on the trail over the weekend. It was 2.25 miles from the parking lot to the bridge, .03 miles to the top of the bridge, .06 miles across the bridge over the road & .08 miles back down the other side. The elevation on one side of the road is higher than the other which is why it’s lopsided. The grade appears to be the same. Gain in elevation of 17 feet on the short side and 32 on the long side.

I have no plans for a hilly race. Just trying to do some strength work and add variety.

We can discuss further off the boards. I need a new plan anyway. I’m just winging it right now.

ETA: My plan is to park on the other side of the bridge this weekend and see how far away it is from that parking lot.

 

[SarahDisney]

Y'all, I was in a meeting today where I had to introduce myself and talk about my non-work hobbies (still not sure I have any), and I said something along the lines of "I should say I like running, but I don't like waking up early, so it's a bit of a love/hate thing."

I figured people here could relate.

 

[avondale]

I also recommend Amazon. I took a chance and ordered a Salomon hydration vest on the recommendation of a friend and it worked out. It has 2 soft water bottles in the front,1.5 L bladder in the back, and tons of pockets, like seriously so many pockets, it's fantastic should I ever need to fill them all.

I use the Salomon vest for trail running, but for road running I prefer my Fitletic 2 flask hydration belt, which is a much cooler option for sunny, hot, long road runs. It took me forever to find a hydration belt I liked, so I definitely took advantage of Amazon's return policy.

Good luck in your search!

I definitely agree with everyone who suggested getting some vests that you can return for free so that you can try on the fit. I have two hydration vests and three bladders for them. Some comments/suggestions:

1. Remember that a hydration vest is a vest, not a backpack. That is, the vertical front portions should come together pretty close to the center of your chest, as opposed to backpack straps, which tend to be much more widely separated from the vertical centerline of your chest. Once I realized this, it made figuring out the fit a lot easier.
2. Expect to fiddle with the fit, so expect to spend some time with those test items you get.
3. Consider whether you tend to be big/small, tall/short for your size and think about that when reading descriptions of sizing. I'm a short smallish-woman, and my vest with the larger bladder doesn't actually get small enough in front to fit like I want it to.
4. Get some of the cleaning tabs to clean your bladder, and don't let a bladder filled with sugary liquid sit for too long before you empty it or you'll regret it. (Not that I have done this.)
5. Think about whether you plan to use water only, flavored drink only, or both at different times. In my experience, even after only one use with a flavored drink, you will always have a faint taste of that flavor when you use the bladder with water - even if you cleaned it. I bought a second bladder for my smaller vest so that I could have one to use only with water and one to use with a flavored drink.
6. On hot days, freeze your bladder with liquid before you go out. Take it out of the freezer maybe an hour ahead of time so that the liquid in the straw melts, and then you'll have a block of ice hanging on your back to help cool you off.

In my experience, I haven't found the vests to be very heavy, even when full. I have bladders that are 1.5L and 2L in size (with different vests). Once you get the fit dialed in, the bladder should be centered on your back and not move much. You do need to try wearing them on long runs before races, so you can find any potential chafing spots and BodyGlide them.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Per this article:

https://www.podiumrunner.com/training/hill-workouts-speed-strength-endurance/
They recommend 4-5% grade for long repeats (minutes), 6-8% for short repeats (30-90 seconds), and "steepest you can find" for sprints (8-10 sec).

Awesome, I have so many hills from the gentle 4-5% to the "I-guess-I'm-basically-walking-up-this-hill-but-I-swear-I'm-trying-to-run" painful 14.5% grade.

@avondale what vests do you like?

 

[Herding_Cats]

I did find a vest on Amazon and ordered it yesterday because I didn’t think I would find one with as good a deal. It’s a Nathan vaporairress. I measure as a s/m but bought the l/xl because it was only $60, and there were quite a few reviews complaining about how tiny it was. I have a small rib cage/sternum measurement for my build (31in) but I have to wear a M or L in shirts to fit my shoulders. If it is in fact too big it has free returns so fingers crossed it works.

I really appreciate all of the tips, tricks, and suggestions.

 

[Dopey 2020]

Got this beauty last night, makes me want to run more

 

[DopeyBadger]

I ran on the trail over the weekend. It was 2.25 miles from the parking lot to the bridge, .03 miles to the top of the bridge, .06 miles across the bridge over the road & .08 miles back down the other side. The elevation on one side of the road is higher than the other which is why it’s lopsided. The grade appears to be the same. Gain in elevation of 17 feet on the short side and 32 on the long side.

So based on your fitness level, the duration of those hill climbs is going to be minimal. If you do sprints at mile pace (7:38), then you're looking at 14-37 seconds in duration, and if you do 3k pace (8:11) you're looking at 15-39 seconds. So because the duration is so minimal, I think it rules out VO2max or Tempo work. I think you'll probably only find the hill useful for full effort sprints. The grade of the 0.8 miles and 32 feet is 7.5% which is close enough to the article I quoted earlier. So I think that's what you'll get out of that hill unless you can find something else that lasts a little longer at your pace. For VO2max work, you're looking for something that's at least 0.16 miles uphill.

 

[run.minnie.miles]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

 

[Dopey 2020]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

3-4 days per week with 5 mile runs on the weekdays and 7-12 miles on the weekend at slow paces just to maintain some kind of endurance while I wait and see what if any races happen before next fall. Morning or night depends on my schedule and weather.
I try to average about 85 miles/month to hit my 1000 mile goal for the year
I do plan on starting a plan once I find the right 50k next fall

 

[SheHulk]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

I'm on a DopeyBadger plan for the Princess virtual half next month. 5 days/week. Many of us know the drill: Lots of easy miles with a harder workout and a long run every week. I'm trying to let it warm up a little before I get out there, but if I don't get out sometime in the morning, I'm stiff & crabby all day until I do. I'm targeting 2021km this year, so a little over 1250 miles thereabouts. So far I'm on pace to do that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

I'm currently training for the "Non-Cancelled Marathon" on 5/1. The training plan is a mix of TrainerRoad's medium volume Half Ironman cycling portion, the running portion based on my historical training load data and racing trends, and strength work through McMillan Core/McMillan Legs/LIIFT4.

M- OFF
T- Hard Cycling (60-90 min) + McMillan Legs
W- Easy Running (30-60 min)
R- Brick Cycle+Run (90-120 min) or [Morning Run/Evening Cycle + McMillan Legs (120-150 min in total)]
F- LIIFT4+McMillan Core in morning (40 min) and Easy Cycling (only 2 more hard Fridays left) at (60-90 min)
Sa- Brick Cycle+Run (90-190 min) or Morning Cycle/Evening Run (120-150 min in total)
Su- Long run in morning (60-150 min) and LIIFT4+McMillan Core in evening

 

[Sleepless Knight]

ATTQOTD: Currently targeting 5 days a week. After work and then a Saturday morning run for Princess. I dusted off an old @DopeyBadger plan that I'm reusing that is designed to get me ready enough to slowly go 13.1 for Princess. After that I will figure out how I want to handle virtual Star Wars which because it's virtual may get pushed off quite a bit given how intense my professional life has already become this year.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

ATTQOTD: My current running routine is 5 days/week with a mix of easy, tempo and long run paces. I have been using a recycled @DopeyBadger plan for my virtual marathons and Dopey for most of the past year. I typically do my weekday training runs in the evenings and my weekend runs in the morning (or afternoon if it’s cold).

Now that Dopey has passed, I’m looking at my next race being a 100k at the end of March. I’ve had really good luck training for ultras up to 50m keeping my overall weekly volume right around that of the marathon plan, but shifting mileage so that I essentially have two longer weekend runs back to back. The weekday runs get shorter as a consequence, but I’m trying to adjust to that with 3+ mile walks in conjunction with those days. Maintaining training at marathon training paces seems to give me a buffer where I can slow down and extend my endurance out to the ultra distances. We’ll see if it works for the 100k!

 

[cburnett11]

QOTD: What is your current running routine? Days/week? Targeting monthly mileage? Following a training plan? Morning v. Evening?

I guess I'll figure this out this weekend. I've been resting a hamstring since a January 1st run. For most of 2020 I was 6 days/week and a decent portion of that loosely/religiously followed a Hanson plan (marathon or half) depending on how strongly I believed a scheduled race might happen. None of them did for me, so by year-end I was just running with no real structure. Anyways, it's been weird being off for almost 3 weeks now. I hope to run maybe 3 ez in the morning and then will likely do a bit more on Saturday. I've had zero pain since I ran on January 1, but I did have some discomfort then and figured 3 weeks of no running might help.