The Running Thread - 2021

[DisJules423]

Who has been enjoying the Trials so far? I can't wait for tonight's 1500 and 5k final!! Such a big fan of so many of the runners I can't even pick a top 3 to root for.

 

[Herding_Cats]

If anyone is in the hunt for any smartwatches check out the Prime Day deals. There are a few Garmin deals that look pretty good.

I’m talking myself out of the venu because my forerunner 35 does everything I need it to.

 

[PrincessV]

Who has been enjoying the Trials so far? I can't wait for tonight's 1500 and 5k final!! Such a big fan of so many of the runners I can't even pick a top 3 to root for.

Meeeee!!!! Except I need to run early, so I keep falling sleep and missing the good races lol! I'm glad tonight's start earlier.

 

[GreatLakes]

Who has been enjoying the Trials so far? I can't wait for tonight's 1500 and 5k final!! Such a big fan of so many of the runners I can't even pick a top 3 to root for.

I'm hoping Grayson Murphy makes the team for the Steeplechase. She is the current Mountain Running World Champion and won the Xterra worlds. If she can make the Olympics in a track event that is an amazing span of events.

 

[DisJules423]

I'm hoping Grayson Murphy makes the team for the Steeplechase. She is the current Mountain Running World Champion and won the Xterra worlds. If she can make the Olympics in a track event that is an amazing span of events.

She had a great race last night! I'm excited for that final-- if only it wasn't 11:40 PM EST haha!

 

[Rogue224]

I'll be at Wineglass as well! Welcome to the Club!

Thanks! Maybe I’ll see you there!

 

[Grabnar]

Just got a great deal on a brand new Keiser M3i. I got it all set up yesterday, but realized that I have no idea how to incorporate cycling into my cross training. Anyone have any tips?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Just got a great deal on a brand new Keiser M3i. I got it all set up yesterday, but realized that I have no idea how to incorporate cycling into my cross training. Anyone have any tips?

Here are some things I've learned over the last 3 years of incorporating cycling into my workout routine:

1) Power is king. Pay less attention to HR or speed on the bike. What matters most is the power you're outputting for the purpose of a workout. This is best measured by performing a Functional Threshold Power test. Then using that value and calculating % of it for different types of zones of workouts. It looks like if you want to use an app other than Keiser, then you need to get this bluetooth dongle (link). I have personally used Zwift and TrainerRoad. I found Zwift to be a gamification of training, whereas I find TrainerRoad to be much more stick to the structured training routine. I combined TrainerRoad on my iPad with a mounted TV in front of me to zone out. Helped pass the time. Just like running, I feel you'll get the most of the cycle with structured training.

2) Time cycling does not equal time running. Based on the data I collected over time, I feel like the conversion is somewhere around 50%. So a 60 min easy run is equal to a 120 min easy cycle. It takes far more time on the bike to equal out the same workout, when considering ultimate running fitness. Keep that in mind when making swaps.

3) Get a good pair of cycling bibs. I rode in these (link). I tried cheaper versions on Amazon, but they weren't nearly as comfortable or as long lasting. I rode in those bibs for nearly 5000-7000 miles and they're still going strong.

4) Consider clip in cycling shoes as they make a world of difference. Not sure whether they're compatible with your Keiser bike.

5) Make sure you're in proper form on the bike as that'll reduce/minimize your chances of injury. So making sure the position of the seat, handlebars, etc. matches your body.

6) At the end of the day, I didn't find the tradeoff of a loss of running and increased total time spent training to be worth it from an improvement standpoint. I used to do 7-9 hrs running per week, and ended up injured every so often. My HM PR occurred after my 5k and 10k PR during Dopey 2018 at 1:30:35 (so realistically I probably could have done better than a 1:30:35 if it were a solo event). During the midst of Disney Marathon 2020 training I did a HM in November 2019. I was doing about 14-16 hrs of training per week at the time and ran a 1:28:40. So less running, but more training overall to yield a slightly better result. But I still had several injury occurrences during my three years on the bike, and my two marathons during that time were not as good as what I was able to do with higher volumes of running. So I came to the conclusion that the increased total workout time necessary for me to reach the same level of running fitness (on a reduced running volume) wasn't worth it since I wasn't able to hit my prior marathon PR levels and was still getting injured (albeit new injuries). But that was just a solo person's experience and doesn't make it indicative of other people's possible experiences.

 

[PrincessV]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

 

[DisJules423]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

If time allows, I definitely recommend tacking on 2-3 ST days after your hard effort runs (either a work out, tempo run, or long run). While that makes your workout days extra hard, it is important that you are allowing your body to fully recover on your easy/rest days, and aren't continuing to strain your muscles on those days. I have been doing full body ST 2-3 times a week with a focus on compound movements (lunges, squats, dead lifts, push ups, planks, etc.) and have found my speed increase significantly. Usually just 20-30 minutes max each session.

 

[Herding_Cats]

ATTQOTD:

So i'm just this week re-starting lifting in addition to my marathon plan, and I have lined up the program I picked so that i have one rest day in the middle of the week (a complete rest day: no lifting AND no running) and one weekend day of no lifting (which also lines up as a complete rest day on every other weekend.) The program I'm doing is about 30min workouts, so it's not a huge time commitment each day to tack on.

I say that now. Ask me again in a month when my weekly mileage is up 50%.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've done it a few different ways.
-The first time I did 80 Day Obsession with my wife, we did it every day. Which meant ST in the morning and running in the evening.
-The second/third time through, I only did some of the 80 Day Obsession workouts, but I did them on hard cycling days. But that meant I wasn't doing them on hard run days.
-When I did the McMillan Legs routine, the instructions were to do them on hard run days after the hard run itself. Like @DisJules423 said. Keep your easy days easy and your hard days hard. I think this routine makes the most sense. With that being said, if a workout was solely upper body focused, I could see it occurring on an easier run day. But if it involves the legs, it seems it is best to keep it to post-hard runs.

 

[PrincessV]

If time allows, I definitely recommend tacking on 2-3 ST days after your hard effort runs (either a work out, tempo run, or long run). While that makes your workout days extra hard, it is important that you are allowing your body to fully recover on your easy/rest days, and aren't continuing to strain your muscles on those days.

This is helpful! Technically speaking, outside of the tail end of Dopy training, I'm really doing 2 ST days per week: one day is ST followed by a short session of vinyasa yoga, and the other is my XT day - but my XT is either Pilates or ballet, both of which lean more ST than aerobic. So I'm thinking instead of that one ST/yoga day, I could just do the yoga and move the ST as a 2nd workout on 2 run days. That yoga day would be an extra rest day (the other rest day being an actual day off from everything.)

Keep your easy days easy and your hard days hard. I think this routine makes the most sense. With that being said, if a workout was solely upper body focused, I could see it occurring on an easier run day. But if it involves the legs, it seems it is best to keep it to post-hard runs.

That totally makes sense! I could do legs on the day I do my speedwork/hill run/stair running, and core/arms on one of my two longer-but-still-short run days.

 

[GreatLakes]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

Timely post since just yesterday I went back to the gym for the first time post-Covid. About 2 years ago I changed up my workout strategy. I started doing more heavy single leg movements like single leg presses and Bulgarian split squats. I generally do them before a rest day or cross training day. I have done some runs in the evening after doing legs at lunch and generally don't feel too bad but if you are changing up to a new routine you might need more time to adapt. I also only do easy effort after legs (same day or day after) and wouldn't do anything hard like strides or track work. Let it be an aerobic effort day.

I also do a high weight / low rep workout. If you are doing the opposite I think you can more easily do them alongside running.

 

[huskies90]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

I have been doing strength training and running for 20+ years with many different combinations. As with running, everyone is different. Do what works for you and make sure you mix up your routines. Do not do the same thing every workout. Also, there is nothing more important than proper form. Reduce the amount of weight and focus/concentrate on your form. The mind/muscle connection is very important to getting results and keeping from getting injured.

As for me, there are times over the last 20 years where I focused more ST and less on running and vice versa. Back in 2018 when I was really focusing on running and training for the marathon - vastly increasing mileage, I really reduced my strength training to 1 full body workout a week. And there would be weeks I missed that so it became every other week or sometimes once a month. I found after the 2019 marathon that my body was storing so much fat and when the miles started to drop, I gained quite a bit of weight. In the summer of 2019, I decided it was time to really get back into strength training which along with a good diet is the best way to burn fat.

So I started a routine I am still doing today: 5 days a week ST and 5 days a week running. I lift weights every workday before work. I do a different muscle group each day mixing up the routines week over week - Chest Mon, Back Tues, Legs/Shoulders Wed, Biceps Thurs, Triceps Fri. Plus a shorter Ab workout every day alternating between lower Abs, upper Abs, Obliques each day. And then for running when I am not following a training plan, I run 5 days a week with one hard run during the week (intervals, sprints, hills etc) one long run on the weekend and the rest easy. I run both weekend days and take the two days off from running during the week making 3 days during the week in which I workout twice in one day. When I run during the week, I will usually go after work but sometimes during lunch if I can fit it in.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

I have also done strength training along with my running for 20+ years. Everyone is different. You have to figure out what works for you. For me, even at 54, I have no problem doubling up on workouts. Just ease into the strength training so you don't injure yourself.

I do P90X 4 or 5 days per week. Each session runs about 1 hour and is very hard. I also run 5-6 days per week, so that generally means that I double up 3-4 days per week. I almost never do a total recovery day - my recovery day after my toughest run of the week includes a P90X workout, but never includes legs or cardio (upper body only). I only take a day completely off if my body tells me that I have to.

On double up days, I do P90X before my runs - usually less than 20 minutes before my run. It is a great way to warm up my legs for the run. At 54, if I wait too long between I have to warm up all over again for the run.

I do my legs workouts (Plyo, Kenpo or Legs/Back) on my Aerobic or Tempo run days. They really warm up my legs for those runs and make moderately hard days a little harder. I do not do a leg workout on days when I am doing intervals, hill repeats or long runs - those run days are hard enough on my legs already. I have found that it impacts my performance and increases my recovery time too much. So, if I have to double up on one of those days, it is upper body only.

 

[avondale]

Submitting for Question of the Day...

Those who do strength training regularly, how do you incorporate it into your training schedule? Do you have designated ST days? Or do you add ST to run days? Arms one day, legs another?

I've been doing a designated full-body ST day once a week for years, but sometimes feel like I'd benefit from a 2nd rest day - and there aren't enough days in the week to do that. So I've started thinking maybe it would be better to add ST as a 2nd workout on 2 of my short run days. Thoughts?

I started strength training many years before I started running. I used to strength train a lot more than I do now, but as I get older, I find I need more sleep and that has come out of my strength training time, somewhat by necessity. However, I always do at least some strength training because I think it's essential for keeping up bone density, strength (duh), and mobility as I get older. (I'm only 47, but planning ahead.)

I do a morning workout on the 5 weekdays usually. For the past ~year, it the ideal plan has looked like this:

• Monday: prehab routine; foam rolling and stretching
• Tuesday: legs and pull-ups; foam rolling and stretching
• Wednesday: core; foam rolling and stretching
• Thursday: upper body (including more pull-ups); foam rolling and stretching
• Friday: prehab routine; foam rolling and stretching

In practice, because of the physical therapy I've been doing for my neck and upper back since March, I've had to cut out the foam rolling and stretching and/or the prehab; usually I have only foam rolling and stretching on Mon and Fri and some of the other days don't have the foam rolling and stretching. Also, in practice, I will float the workouts around to different days of the week depending on time constraints. However, I never do pull-ups two days in a row.

I generally aim for high-weight and low-rep workouts and 45 min or fewer, all for efficiency. You can see my workouts on my training journal on this site.

I usually run 5 days per week - usually Mon and Fri are off from running, but not always. I also play a lot of tennis, so if a tennis match causes me to shift around the running, then that happens. I used to try to match up specific days between running and strength training, but it just created too many constraints. That said, my longest runs are Sat and Sun and I never strength train on those days, so that combination doesn't occur.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Ds2 decided last night at XC practice that he actually DOES want to get a watch to use. Of course he does this the day after prime day. Sigh. The choices are to give him my forerunner 35 and get myself an upgrade OR get him like a 45?? I’m open to suggestions. I don’t love how chunky my 35 is (I really wanted that venu but couldn’t justify the expense)

Anyone have suggestions for me?

 

[FFigawi]

Apple Watch?

 

[GreatLakes]

Ds2 decided last night at XC practice that he actually DOES want to get a watch to use. Of course he does this the day after prime day. Sigh. The choices are to give him my forerunner 35 and get myself an upgrade OR get him like a 45?? I’m open to suggestions. I don’t love how chunky my 35 is (I really wanted that venu but couldn’t justify the expense)

Anyone have suggestions for me?

Do you want to stay in the Garmin ecosystem? If so I'd use their filter tool to make sure the exact options you want are in the watch and then go from there. If you want daily fitness and sleep tracking, Garmin Pay, music, or LTE in addition to just activity tracking filter for those. I have a 945 and love it. I may be tempted to go to a Fenix 7 or FR955 when it comes out depending on what they add.