The Running Thread - 2019

[BuckeyeBama]

Maybe today wasn’t the day to start interval training, 92 with 40% humidity. The plan was 4 miles, 3/4 m at 10:00/m to warm up then 1/4 @7:30 1/4 @11:30 repeat 5 times then 3/4 @10:00 to get home. I managed 3-1/2 intervals anyways then a slow jog home. Avg pace was 9’42” but HR averaged 174 with a max spike of 190. Seems a bit high to me

Well, I am 52 and my max HR is 170, so if I hit those numbers I would die - literally. Just keep swimming.

 

[SheHulk]

My dog is 8 and never really was a running companion. She's a Boston terrier/bulldog mix so more of a sprinter and stopper. Tonight I took her for a walk and she was so full of energy. After 15 minutes of brisk walking I was sure she'd want to turn around on our out-and-back, it's pretty hot out, but instead she wanted to keep going and after another minute or two she broke into a little jog! Just fast enough that I couldn't walk to keep up and had to jog. So we jogged at a nice pace for about a mile! She would have kept going but we got to the car. Then she just hopped up into my SUV like it was nothing (in the past when we walked her too long we've had to pick her up to get her in the car). What the heck. 85 degrees out here and she's got the spirit of a puppy suddenly. I had a flash of optimism she will be a new running buddy but given her history it's more likely a one-time thing. I doubt you can expect an 8 year old dog to take up running, right?

 

[camaker]

Hmm that looks like an interesting run. Looks like a better intro 100 than Umstead and it's probably easier to get into.
Have you done the seashore 50K??

The Seashore Nature Trail 50k in VA Beach? If so, that was my first ultra. I followed it up with the Light 2 Light 50m which is essentially run on the first half of the Blackbeard 100 course and the Badwater Cape Fear 51.4m. I’ve run a couple of half marathons in Umstead and the hilliness was enough to scare me away from the Umstead 100!

 

[Dopey 2020]

Well, I am 52 and my max HR is 170, so if I hit those numbers I would die - literally. Just keep swimming.

As I am 47, I thought the same thing, but the more I've read about true max HR and the 220-age formula being an average guideline, the more I've figured I am one of those on the high side. I've just never seen it that high before, but really only started watching the last few months. I always just went by how much effort felt easy/like work/hard/impossible.

 

[IamTrike]

The Seashore Nature Trail 50k in VA Beach? If so, that was my first ultra. I followed it up with the Light 2 Light 50m which is essentially run on the first half of the Blackbeard 100 course and the Badwater Cape Fear 51.4m. I’ve run a couple of half marathons in Umstead and the hilliness was enough to scare me away from the Umstead 100!

Cool. Seashore looked like a good intro Ultra. I've don't Mountains to Sea 50K and I was looking at Seashore as my next ultra. I like the OBX full and Flying pirate half so an ultra out there seems fun. Plus it's easier to get others to tag along if it includes a trip to the beach

 

[LSUlakes]

I made a jambalaya at work for staff meal with our homemade Tasso, shared on Instagram and was called a honorary coon*** by a Cajun dude I know. Thats the most Cajun thing I have heard.

I cooked a pastalaya Saturday which is so easy. I like jambalaya, but the kids prefer noodles over rice... I also have work to do on mine, but my uncle cooks the best one ever and I am supposed to have a hangout with him one day to learn how he does it. Need to schedule that one asap!

 

[DopeyBadger]

As I am 47, I thought the same thing, but the more I've read about true max HR and the 220-age formula being an average guideline, the more I've figured I am one of those on the high side. I've just never seen it that high before, but really only started watching the last few months. I always just went by how much effort felt easy/like work/hard/impossible.

I've worked with over 100 different runners over the years and can attest that maxHRs come all across the range regardless of personal characteristics (gender, age, fitness, etc.). I've got runners in the 210s and as low as the 140s for a maxHR. But the one thing that is very consistent amongst all of them is the use of the %HRR calculation (heart rate reserve). This takes into account the maxHR (observed in a training run or race that isn't believed to be an erroneous value) and restingHR. Using those values you can find general zones that line up quite well with the current fitness based pacing that I typically schedule runners for. Admittedly though, run/walking presents a unique challenge with these zones since for small time frames you move in and out of different types of paces to generate an average pace in the same place as a continuous runner. But even with that, looking at the general trends can still be insightful.

So if someone had a:

Max HR of 175 (Look for the highest HR you've achieved in a 5k that wasn't cadence lock. Don't use 220-age as that has a huge standard deviation which makes it mostly irrelevant for many.)
Resting HR of 49 (Either from your watch, or check your pulse after you've awoken but before you get out of bed.)
HRR = maxHR - restHR = 175-49 = 126

53% HRR = restHR + (0.53 * HRR) = 49 + (0.53*126) = 49 + 66.78 = 115.78



For run/walkers who use the Galloway +2 min model for their easy/long run pacing, I typically find they fall on the lower end of the "easy" spectrum listed above if they're pacing to current fitness.

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: What to do when running just isn't going to happen for a long period of time (or currently taking place) for reasons not related to injury or health?

ATTQOTD: That's just where I am at these days. It sucks!!! I have returned to every single bad habit that I had before running and I am mostly pissed more times than I am not. I know running would bring me back to a happy place, but the amount of guilt I would feel from having that much "me" time would eat me up as well and then all the stress I feel now would then be on my wife. It looks like I am in a place in life where a combination of careers, kids, and outside obligations, just don't allow for running time. If I did not need to sleep, perhaps things would be different lol.


STORM Update: We got lucky this time! Saturday morning was as bad as it got for us. Some decent wind, which had me concerned about our fence making it. It could see it bending and thought welp looks like I'll have some work to do after this. I thought for sure I heard it fall and went change to go asses the damage, but when I went outside I noticed a large tree was missing... it feel on a neighbors house. Went check on him and he was ok. Offered to help get the tree of his house and see what else I could do, but he said he was ok. A few hours later a tree company is removing the tree from his house and the a crane shows up and they start removing other trees that had potential to cause more damage to his home. I do not know what insurance company he has, but I'm impressed with someone coming out and doing that type of work with somewhat high winds and rain. That evening I was cooking and saw him outside again and offered food, beer, and shelter. He accepted none of it, but he said that all the items in his house were saved due to the tree services efforts! That was about the extent of our excitement for the storm. Never lost power which made DD sad lol. She wanted to make shadow puppets when we had lost power with the flashlights. I told her, you do not want to experience a nights sleep without AC after the storm, it would be miserable. We just turned off the lights and used the flashlights so she could make shadows lol.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I've worked with over 100 different runners over the years and can attest that maxHRs come all across the range regardless of personal characteristics (gender, age, fitness, etc.). I've got runners in the 210s and as low as the 140s for a maxHR. But the one thing that is very consistent amongst all of them is the use of the %HRR calculation (heart rate reserve). This takes into account the maxHR (observed in a training run or race that isn't believed to be an erroneous value) and restingHR. Using those values you can find general zones that line up quite well with the current fitness based pacing that I typically schedule runners for. Admittedly though, run/walking presents a unique challenge with these zones since for small time frames you move in and out of different types of paces to generate an average pace in the same place as a continuous runner. But even with that, looking at the general trends can still be insightful.

So if someone had a:

Max HR of 175 (Look for the highest HR you've achieved in a 5k that wasn't cadence lock. Don't use 220-age as that has a huge standard deviation which makes it mostly irrelevant for many.)
Resting HR of 49 (Either from your watch, or check your pulse after you've awoken but before you get out of bed.)
HRR = maxHR - restHR = 175-49 = 126

53% HRR = restHR + (0.53 * HRR) = 49 + (0.53*126) = 49 + 66.78 = 115.78

View attachment 418113

For run/walkers who use the Galloway +2 min model for their easy/long run pacing, I typically find they fall on the lower end of the "easy" spectrum listed above if they're pacing to current fitness.

Thanks - Based on my running efforts, my max HR is really 174, but it is a "hard" 174 and has been there for the last 2 years. I can hit it in speed work, but I cannot push myself beyond it no matter how hard I try - and I have tried. I literally lose all strength in my body when I try to push past it if I don't stop soon enough (within 6-7 minutes).

Max HR is real. Young runners - enjoy it while you can. At some point it effects what you can do (and I don't just mean in running).

 

[BuckeyeBama]

QOTD: What to do when running just isn't going to happen for a long period of time (or currently taking place) for reasons not related to injury or health?

I lost 11 days in a row at the end of June because of a serious chest cold. It sucks. I am 9 days into my efforts to rebuild my fitness, and it really sucks struggling in runs that were a breeze less than a month ago. I have also gone through very long periods when I could not run due to broken bones and surgery.

I get that you are asking about times when you cannot run because of things other than health and injury, but my reality is that nothing other than health or injury will keep me from running. It is a part of who I am.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: What to do when running just isn't going to happen for a long period of time (or currently taking place) for reasons not related to injury or health?

ATTQOTD: That's just where I am at these days. It sucks!!! I have returned to every single bad habit that I had before running and I am mostly pissed more times than I am not. I know running would bring me back to a happy place, but the amount of guilt I would feel from having that much "me" time would eat me up as well and then all the stress I feel now would then be on my wife. It looks like I am in a place in life where a combination of careers, kids, and outside obligations, just don't allow for running time. If I did not need to sleep, perhaps things would be different lol.

ATTQOTD: I am fortunate that I have taken up running after kids have left out the nest, so I haven't had to take any time off or hiatus' not related to injury. In the instances where work became intrusive, I altered my running schedule to allow me to run anyway.

I think there are a couple of ways to approach your situation, though, @LSUlakes. First, as you pointed out, you are a happier, less stressed person when you are running. So your family is getting more time with you, but it's probably lower quality time because you're "mostly pissed more times than not". What's better for your family long term? More time with an angry father/husband or a little less time with a happier, less stressed person? I know which I would pick. The question is, how can you re-prioritize to achieve that? Take a hard look at at your obligations whether they be work, personal or family and ask yourself which are worth compromising your mental state for? Are there any opportunities to trade off with your wife? Take the kids and new dog for a while to let her get out and decompress a little and, in return, you get a little running time? Can you cut back on running and do a few less miles and get the mental benefits with less time requirements? Also take a hard look at work. It's a cliche, but it's a job and family should come first. If the company takes a downturn, it's not going to care about the emotional damage you've done to yourself to keep them running. As a society, I think we tend to pour way too much into a job, sacrificing our personal lives only to get far too little back and be viewed as disposable commodities when things go poorly in an industry. I hope this didn't come across as too preachy. Good luck finding your path. You and you're family will be happier if you are able to strike the right balance!

 

[run.minnie.miles]

ATTQOTD: I think you probably just need to accept that running is not your priority right now and that is a-ok. I think we've all heard that you make time for the most important things, and I don't think there's anything wrong with running not being one of those right now for you.
The great thing about running is it will always be here for us when we're ready.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Max HR is real. Young runners - enjoy it while you can. At some point it effects what you can do (and I don't just mean in running).

So true. And there's good data to support that for an individual person over their lifetime their personal maxHR will fall as they age. Meaning the maxHR you had when you were young will be higher than what is possible when you're older. And like you said, this effects many different aspects of life in general. One key part being a reduced dynamic range of those various %HRR zones since the restingHR doesn't seem to fall like maxHR does.

To circle back on an old conversation we had some time ago, it looks like Garmin has changed their "VO2max" calculation. In previous iterations it acted more like a VO2peak (wherein it was more a current representation of fitness under those particular conditions you just ran in). But they've now included some sort of adjustment for temperature and humidity on the "VO2max" estimation on the Garmin 245. So not quite a true "VO2max" estimation but a step closer in closing the gap on the difference between the two. Additionally, they've changed the "race predictor" from a look-up table (all people with a VO2max of 55 have the same predicted times) to a new calculation that takes into account recent training loads (weekly maxes, single day maxes, etc.) to come up with new race time projections. Interesting changes Garmin decided to make to their new 245 device.

 

[Bree]

ATTQOTD: This is a hard question and I don't really have much advice. What I have to say might not come off correctly, but I'll try. My family kind of works differently than the rest of society says we need to be these days. My order of priorities is God, self, spouse, kids then career (when I had one). I need that relationship with God to make myself better. When I am a better person I am a better wife. When my marriage is better I am a better parent. I can't take care of my family without taking care of myself first. Then I have a saying my family just rolls their eyes at.....If you have 30 minutes to sit and watch TV, you have 30 minutes to exercise. Go walk the dog.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: What to do when running just isn't going to happen for a long period of time (or currently taking place) for reasons not related to injury or health?

I think maybe a reset is in order. Take time to get life things on order and then start slowly back. Maybe look at getting in some other fitness in if you can instead of running. Even just taking a walk with family or pets.

 

[Kennywood]

 

[Miranda]

I don't know if I have any good tips. I have mentioned before that I have been struggling to get back into running since last August. I don't have any family or career issues that keep me from running. We have no kids, I work at home in a cushy software development job that allows me the flexibility to do whatever I want during the day as long as stuff gets done. I could be out running whenever I wanted to.

For me, it's just that I'm not THAT into running. Like I don't live to run. I like it well enough when it's not as hard. Right now it's VERY HARD because I took so much time off. Although surprisingly my legs have not felt too terrible even though I'm 15 lbs heavier than last year, and last year I was 25 lbs heavier than 3 years before that. My cardio endurance has suffered a lot and when I stop to walk it's due to that, not because my legs are too tired. Probably continuing Orangetheory over the year even though I haven't been running outside has helped with that.

I like to do races and stuff, but running is not my passion. And sometimes my other interests just outweigh running, and for me that's ok. Last year right around the time I ran my last race, Beach to Beacon, I got busy with more dog agility stuff. I love doing dog agility. That IS one of my passions. Doing long runs on the weekend just stopped happening because I was either trialing that day or I didn't want my legs to be sore from running for a trial the next day. Probably if I hadn't canceled Wineglass last year, I would have found a way to make it work, but my parents were coming for a visit and I didn't want to go away to NY for 5 days during their visit here. And then the weeks turned into months and then here I am. I'm actually still struggling with this right now, as I am ostensibly in my Wineglass training right now but I am just winging it. I am trialing on Sunday for the next 2 weeks, so no long runs will be happening on Saturday. Maybe Friday these 2 weeks? Maybe on Mondays going forward? I have to figure out something because Oct 6 is not that far off. And Friday won't work for some of the other weekends... we are trialing Fri-Sun one weekend in August, and definitely one Sat-Sun on Labor Day weekend and possibly another Sat-Sun near the end of September, and maybe another Sunday in September.

 

[Dis_Yoda]

QOTD: What to do when running just isn't going to happen for a long period of time (or currently taking place) for reasons not related to injury or health?

ATTQOTD: That's just where I am at these days. It sucks!!! I have returned to every single bad habit that I had before running and I am mostly pissed more times than I am not. I know running would bring me back to a happy place, but the amount of guilt I would feel from having that much "me" time would eat me up as well and then all the stress I feel now would then be on my wife. It looks like I am in a place in life where a combination of careers, kids, and outside obligations, just don't allow for running time. If I did not need to sleep, perhaps things would be different lol.

My husband is kinda in this point and frankly - I wish he would just run or exercise more. He says he feels guilty leaving the puppy at home or even having them in the yard while he uses the exercise bike. We’re going to have a serious conversation tomorrow before it boils over to a fight. I had to stop myself yesterday as I knew it wouldn’t go well. I know it’s the combination of work stuff (he’s out of the home 13 hours a day currently), the lack of exercise and the general stress of having a 4 month and 17 month high energy dogs that do take a lot of attention and energy.

Pissed off time isn’t quality time with anyone. I would look at a calendar and see how things can work. It might mean overly scheduling your day or spending money on other things to give you more time for something else (like lawn service, well servicing, pest management, house cleaning, a dry cleaner that picks up from the house, a dog walker, a baby sitter, etc)

 

[Princess_Nikki]

QTTQOTD: Disregard last post. Misread it!

I’m injured, mostly, at the moment. But In relation to not be able to physically run due to life in general, is just something I don’t allow in my life anymore. I seem to be a devils advocate on the Disboards more often than not, but “Me Time” I think is extremely important for everyone. Whether that’s running, hiking, reading a book, walking the dog, etc. I once read a great quote somewhere that said, “We make time for the things we want to make time for”. That’s always stayed with me because I think it’s so true.

 

[Neon Cactus]

ATTQOTD: I've had those issues before and it's hard to give perfect advice because everyone's reasons are so different. The problem is that if you want to be running, and you sacrifice that for all of your other demands, then you could wind up becoming resentful as a result. In my situation, I got myself up 45 minutes earlier than usual and went running, but that may not be possible for you. I'd suggest discussing it with your wife and see if you can come up with a schedule that gives you some time to run. If not, then try to schedule activities that require walking or some other way to keep you motivated. I went to a concert last night at House of Blues, which is a mile from my apartment and I walked there and back, for example. Also focus on the bad habits that you're getting back and address each one and try to find alternatives to those. That's hard for me, because I tend to be very impulsive where I have friends who can do that with no problem. But if you can avoid them, even if you're not running, then that's at least a minor victory. Good luck and feel free to vent if you need to!