The Running Thread - 2018

[Chasing Dopey]

Question: At this point my (looooong term) goal is to increase distance to finish a half. While I understand that it is possible to differentiate tempo run, long run, etc, I seem to run at varying paces all the time (should you have children who watch the Lion Guard it is closer to Kanguay than Fuli). Is it reasonable to just keep adding total mileage? It is probably not helpful that I do not run anywhere that is flat- garmin told me I had climbed 10 flights of stairs on this morning's run.
Regarding pacing, I am not consistent. I will need to be on a treadmill to do that, and I am going to prefer outdoors if AM temps stay below 75*. Any ideas on how to improve consistent pacing? Even trying to consider a training plan with a targeted pace seems foolish to me.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

If all you run is hilly, then don't worry about keeping your pace consistent. It's just not gonna happen, and to be honest it's not really what you want over hills. The best approach (and this is by no means easy) is to try to keep your effort consistent. So you'll slow down up hill and speed up down hill, but you're trying to keep your breathing and heart rate about the same. And it's tough to get over how silly you feel taking what feels like little baby steps while going up hill. BuckeyeBama is right about trying to keep your cadence steady, and your stride should be kept on a sliding scale. Like I said, this is NOT EASY. But very beneficial.

Now, if you want to spend the money and are willing to do some serious reading/research, there is technology to help with this: power meters. I have the Stryd foot pod, and I'm still learning to use it. What these do is translate your effort into a value measured in watts. It's similar to monitoring your heart rate, but it's a more immediate measurement, while your heart rate lags behind changes in effort. The basic idea is to help you maintain a consistent effort, which is more important than a consistent pace. But, like I said, still not easy. I also run in a hilly neighborhood, and if I want flat (or flatter) I have a nearby park I go to.

 

[opusone]

I have the Stryd foot pod, and I'm still learning to use it. What these do is translate your effort into a value measured in watts. It's similar to monitoring your heart rate, but it's a more immediate measurement, while your heart rate lags behind changes in effort. The basic idea is to help you maintain a consistent effort, which is more important than a consistent pace. But, like I said, still not easy.

So far, how useful have you found the Stryd foot pod to be?

 

[jennamfeo]

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

 

[SarahDisney]

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I use Superfeet Berry. They were recommended to me at the running store - I have high arches and I just wasn't getting enough support from shoes alone, but adding in the insoles basically corrected all of my arch-related pronation issues.
I've never tried them for comfort issues, though. So my answer is less than useful.

(Are these the rose gold shoes? Because that would make me a little sad. They're too pretty to be uncomfortable.)

 

[jennamfeo]

(Are these the rose gold shoes? Because that would make me a little sad. They're too pretty to be uncomfortable.)

Yes. It's only one shoe and it's not too terribly uncomfortable but it's still really annoying. I don't want to run a race in the just in case, so that sucks.

 

[PCFriar80]

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

I use Walkfit orthotics which were recommended to me by my podiatrist to alleviate my achilles pain. I've been using them for over 10 years [they were called something else when I first started using them]. They work well for me, but they do take some getting used to when you first start. I actually feel funny when I put on another pair of shoes that don't have them. With any new insole or insert, I recommend a walking around break-in period before you road test them with running. Good luck!

 

[MissLiss279]

So far, how useful have you found the Stryd foot pod to be?

So... I thought I would answer this too, since I have one. I probably should have bought the cheaper Stryd Live, because that’s pretty much all I use it for. I had not been happy with the instantaneous pace of my new (at the time) Fenix 5s. It seemed to jump around a lot more than my 220 did. I might have been able to fix that by changing it to display the pace average over a few seconds, but I’m not sure how much that would have helped. I also run on the treadmill at OrangeTheory a lot, so I wanted to be able to track that better with my Garmin. This has been one of the major benefits for me with the Stryd. I can get pretty decent treadmill distances (without having to manually enter something or having a more inaccurate number by just using the watch) and for indoor running around a track. I don’t have to worry about counting laps for distance. So the things I really use it for probably could have been done with the Stryd Live, but I didn’t find out about it until after I purchased the other.

Where I normally run is pretty flat which is why the Power Meter is not as helpful to me; however, I did run in Branson last week which has many more hills (and what I would call large steep hills!), and I did use the power meter for that running to keep me from trying to race up the hills. I did use more power going up the hills than for my standard pace on level ground, but it helped keep me in check, and slow me down even more than I would have.

I would love it if it could estimate power used when running into the wind, because when you are running into 20+ mph wind, that takes a lot more effort than when you are not. And while we don’t have hills here, we do have plenty of days with very strong wind.

I got the Stryd right after Chicago, and wish I would have had it for that, so my Garmin would have not gone all crazy with the tall buildings. It did help when I ran Fargo, and the race started indoors. The GPS hadn’t been acquired when the race started, but I still got the correct distance because of the Stryd.

Hope long review was somewhat helpful...

 

[cavepig]

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

I tried Superfeet green when I had plantar fasciitis really bad and they squeaked, like I felt a mouse was running with me, so annoying and they were too hard for me, I returned them. That's all I have to go by so not much help but wanted to mention that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Question: At this point my (looooong term) goal is to increase distance to finish a half. While I understand that it is possible to differentiate tempo run, long run, etc, I seem to run at varying paces all the time (should you have children who watch the Lion Guard it is closer to Kanguay than Fuli). Is it reasonable to just keep adding total mileage? It is probably not helpful that I do not run anywhere that is flat- garmin told me I had climbed 10 flights of stairs on this morning's run.
Regarding pacing, I am not consistent. I will need to be on a treadmill to do that, and I am going to prefer outdoors if AM temps stay below 75*. Any ideas on how to improve consistent pacing? Even trying to consider a training plan with a targeted pace seems foolish to me.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Seems like you've gotten some great advice thus far. I'll throw in my two cents. When I train on certain days, I have a pace goal. I then modify the goal based on the conditions outside (usually T+D). Then, depending on the type of run, I give myself a window to hit. The faster the pace relatively speaking (like 5k pace vs easy pace) the bigger the window:

LR = +/-10 sec
M Tempo = +/- 10 sec
HM Tempo = +/- 10 sec
LT = +/- 5 sec
10k = +/- 5 sec
5k = +/- 5 sec
3k = +/- 3 sec
Mile = +/- 1 sec

So for example, my run on 6/28 was a 2 x 6 mile at M Tempo. Based on the temps, the pace should have been a 6:48 (GP) + 10 sec (for the first half of the training plan to be slower) + TD adjustment (1.5%-3%) = 7:04-7:11 goal pace.



The pace itself varied over the course of the run from a 6:45 to 7:25 min/mile (the first two miles are a WU). So while the goal was "consistent" pacing, the reality is there was some ebb and flow to it based on a myriad of factors (turns, elevation, etc.). These were the splits, Grade Adjusted Pace, and elevation.



So while the pace is more variable on the small scale, taking into account the actual running, the pace itself is rather even. Still varies from 6:57 to 7:13 with a pace window of 6:54 to 7:14 (with a pace goal of 7:04), then everything still falls into window. A nice feature on Strava is the "Grade Adjusted Pace" which attempts to take into account varied elevation in the route. So with the "Mile 6" not withstanding, you can see my GAP was pretty tight at 7:01-7:04. This is the case because while my actual pace wasn't as consistent when running up/down hills, my effort was. While I have a pace targeted goal on most every run I do, I still trust my effort during the actual run.

In general, my route averages about 35 feet per mile of gained elevation (my old neighborhood was about 50 feet per mile). I've found that training by effort and pace is still accomplishable even with a normal hilly route.

From a quick google, it would appear an Apple Watch "flight of stairs" is around 10 feet elevation gained. So at 10 flights, you're looking at an elevation gain of 100 feet. So that would be about 2 miles on my old route, and 3 miles on my new route for a comparison.

 

[GreatLakes]

If all you run is hilly, then don't worry about keeping your pace consistent. It's just not gonna happen, and to be honest it's not really what you want over hills. The best approach (and this is by no means easy) is to try to keep your effort consistent. So you'll slow down up hill and speed up down hill, but you're trying to keep your breathing and heart rate about the same. And it's tough to get over how silly you feel taking what feels like little baby steps while going up hill. BuckeyeBama is right about trying to keep your cadence steady, and your stride should be kept on a sliding scale. Like I said, this is NOT EASY. But very beneficial.

Now, if you want to spend the money and are willing to do some serious reading/research, there is technology to help with this: power meters. I have the Stryd foot pod, and I'm still learning to use it. What these do is translate your effort into a value measured in watts. It's similar to monitoring your heart rate, but it's a more immediate measurement, while your heart rate lags behind changes in effort. The basic idea is to help you maintain a consistent effort, which is more important than a consistent pace. But, like I said, still not easy. I also run in a hilly neighborhood, and if I want flat (or flatter) I have a nearby park I go to.

I second this if you are doing hills or trails. You can also use heart rate and pick a window to stay in if your terrain is not even. I'd invest in either a watch with a build in optical sensor or, and this is more accurate, a check sensor and set your watch fields to include the heart rate. If you spike on a hill slow down, even to a walk if it is really steep, and try to maintain an even rate. It is a different approach than cadence but also easier if the hills are significant. I have a different cadence running uphill vs down personally.

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

I started using Superfeet Blue (except for my running flats which have Superfeet Carbon) back when I started running and had some minor foot pain and just stuck with them. I am not sure I need them but I do appreciate a little stronger arch support than the stock liners.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

So far, how useful have you found the Stryd foot pod to be?

I'm still learning, but overall I think it's helped. I tend to over do the uphills, so it's helped me ease off a bit. The main thing is that it's given me a value to connect to my effort level. Thanks to being too much of a watch watcher, I've been able to apply the number I see on my watch to how I feel. If you told me to run at 200, or 235, for 5 minutes, I can get fairly close (or at least a lot closer than I used to) without looking. The folks at Stryd have their own plans that are based completely on power, and I've yet to try one out as I don't feel quite ready for it, but I'm getting closer. Like I said, I'm still trying to figure it out, and I'm looking forward to using it as a governor during a race eventually. (Calibrating the thing is not easy, though. That was a hard day.)

 

[apdebord]

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

I got fitted for aetrex insoles 4 years ago. I broke my heel a few months before that and needed a little something extra. Dr. Scholls heel cups worked for training for and running my first half, but I felt I needed more. I got my first pair at Fit2Run in Disney Springs, but I’ve found them at other running and specialty shoe stores. Now that I know what I need I can get them on amazon.

 

[kleph]

Can I ask a boring Friday running related question?

To those who use insoles in your running shoes, how did you decide to and why? Have you noticed any benefits? Do you have a favorite brand?

I don't use insoles, but I got a new pair of shoes that weren't my typical style from my husband and I don't really like the insole that came with the shoe, one of the edges pokes my heel, so I am thinking of adding them into these.

years ago, when i was battling a stress fracture, i had custom insoles made. to wear them, i had to buy neutral stability shoes. i've long since moved past that issue and had stuck with using medium stability footwear using the insoles they came with.

when i started my recent training i went to a good running store and had a detailed discussion with the staffer regarding what i needed. she talked me into trying something along the lines of what i had used years ago; neutral stability shoes but with an insole providing support. eventually i settled on Lynco L400 orthotic inserts.

this has really worked well for me since i prefer running in the netural shoes -- particularly for the reduced elevation of the heel -- but, when adding a lot of distance, i still can use some additional support. i just picked up a new pair of shoes and i'm trying out running without the inserts once or twice a week to see if i'm ready to eliminate them altogether.

 

[LSUlakes]

Decided to give dole whip a second shot today. I’m sorry I ever said something negative about this delicious frozen pile of amazing! With rum FTW! It’s soooooo hot today.

 

[Olallamom]

Decided to give dole whip a second shot today. I’m sorry I ever said something negative about this delicious frozen pile of amazing! With rum FTW! It’s soooooo hot today.

Love the dole whip with coconut rum at AK

 

[LdyStormy76]

Previous discussions have touched on retiring shoes based on miles, tread or just knowing it is time. However, it seemed that people who are diehard fans of a specific shoe style typically get approximately the same amount of wear/miles before retiring a pair. Have you ever had a pair that needs to be retired sooner than you normally would have? Does this happen more frequently the longer you run, or is it typically a one off? Also, do you typically find that shoes are fine one day and the next you know they have to be retired?

This is why I'm asking for what others have experienced: my first pair of Brooks Ghost 10 went 400 miles. My second pair, currently at 195 miles, might not even make 210 - the tread for the right foot is looking just like the pair that went 400 miles. Am frustrated as I was really hoping to get them to last until the end of August as that would be a natural breaking point with training. My fear is that pair 3 (currently at 72 miles) might run into the same issue and those are the shoes I was planning on taking on the trip that ends with the Disneyland Paris Challenge; they will have about 192 miles on them upon arrival in France.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Previous discussions have touched on retiring shoes based on miles, tread or just knowing it is time. However, it seemed that people who are diehard fans of a specific shoe style typically get approximately the same amount of wear/miles before retiring a pair. Have you ever had a pair that needs to be retired sooner than you normally would have? Does this happen more frequently the longer you run, or is it typically a one off? Also, do you typically find that shoes are fine one day and the next you know they have to be retired?

I have, a few times, had to give up on a pair of running shoes before their time. It has never been for obvious reasons, like tread wear. It has been because my feet hurt a few times in a row running in the shoes. Probably a mid-sole issue each time, but the shoes looked fine.

I have had friends claim to have their running shoes fall apart during runs, though I never witnessed it myself.

 

[PCFriar80]

Previous discussions have touched on retiring shoes based on miles, tread or just knowing it is time. However, it seemed that people who are diehard fans of a specific shoe style typically get approximately the same amount of wear/miles before retiring a pair. Have you ever had a pair that needs to be retired sooner than you normally would have? Does this happen more frequently the longer you run, or is it typically a one off? Also, do you typically find that shoes are fine one day and the next you know they have to be retired?

This is why I'm asking for what others have experienced: my first pair of Brooks Ghost 10 went 400 miles. My second pair, currently at 195 miles, might not even make 210 - the tread for the right foot is looking just like the pair that went 400 miles. Am frustrated as I was really hoping to get them to last until the end of August as that would be a natural breaking point with training. My fear is that pair 3 (currently at 72 miles) might run into the same issue and those are the shoes I was planning on taking on the trip that ends with the Disneyland Paris Challenge; they will have about 192 miles on them upon arrival in France.

I Run in New Balance 880s and they're pretty consistent with their wear and tear, and durability. I average 350 miles per pair. A couple of thoughts [actually questions] on the current tread issue. Have you changed the surface you are running on? Have you had any minor injuries that may have altered your gait, where you're favoring one side versus the other? Or, maybe you just got a bad pair?

 

[tidefan]

Previous discussions have touched on retiring shoes based on miles, tread or just knowing it is time. However, it seemed that people who are diehard fans of a specific shoe style typically get approximately the same amount of wear/miles before retiring a pair. Have you ever had a pair that needs to be retired sooner than you normally would have? Does this happen more frequently the longer you run, or is it typically a one off? Also, do you typically find that shoes are fine one day and the next you know they have to be retired?

This is why I'm asking for what others have experienced: my first pair of Brooks Ghost 10 went 400 miles. My second pair, currently at 195 miles, might not even make 210 - the tread for the right foot is looking just like the pair that went 400 miles. Am frustrated as I was really hoping to get them to last until the end of August as that would be a natural breaking point with training. My fear is that pair 3 (currently at 72 miles) might run into the same issue and those are the shoes I was planning on taking on the trip that ends with the Disneyland Paris Challenge; they will have about 192 miles on them upon arrival in France.

I've always run in Saucony Guides. My current pair has over 200 miles on them and still going strong...

 

[tidefan]

Hey @LSUlakes , for upcoming races, I'll be doing the Castaway Cay 5k on 7/24. Does that count