The Running Thread - 2016

[Chaitali]

Thanks, that makes sense. And I realized I wrote my intervals wrong. It's 2:00 running and :30 walking. But your advice makes sense. And maybe instead of pushing all the way to 2 miles and feeling like I'm dying when I finally take that walk break, I guess I can just try for longer intervals to find a good middle ground.

As far as extra mileage for mid training plan races, I usually add in a warm up jog and cool down jog. But that's easier to do at local races than at races the size of Disney races. Disney races have been goal races so far for me so I haven't had to do it down there.

 

[roxymama]

Here's a question, though: Any thoughts on what to do if you've got a race in the middle of your plan that doesn't have enough miles? On Wine and Dine weekend, the plan calls for 8.5m on Sat. and 20m on Sunday. We'll only be running 6.2 and 13.1, of course. (We've thought about running around the parking lot before or after the races to get our miles in. Boy would we look ridiculous.)

Don't forget to factor in how many miles you will be walking to and from the races and around the parks. Your legs may get some additional miles from just the walking. Not 9 additional miles of course, but still something to think about if you try to make up the extra miles.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Here's a question, though: Any thoughts on what to do if you've got a race in the middle of your plan that doesn't have enough miles? On Wine and Dine weekend, the plan calls for 8.5m on Sat. and 20m on Sunday. We'll only be running 6.2 and 13.1, of course. (We've thought about running around the parking lot before or after the races to get our miles in. Boy would we look ridiculous.)

Do you plan on racing Wine & Dine, running as a training run, or enjoying Disney and doing characters and stuff?

Racing - Don't add any mileage (these workouts will be plenty tough)
Training Run - Nothing added on Saturday and add some mileage to Sunday either before or after the run, but you'll probably be ok if you didn't (I wouldn't do any more than 4.5 hours total if using run/walk).
Enjoying Disney - Nothing added on Saturday and add some mileage to Sunday either before or after the run (I wouldn't do any more than 4.5 hours total if using run/walk).

From a grand perspective though, if you reduce the 8.5 and 20 to 6.2 and 13.1 (regardless of how you run Wine & Dine) and this is the only change you make during the whole Dopey training then you've got nothing to worry about and no matter what you do you'll be safe.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

Don't forget to factor in how many miles you will be walking to and from the races and around the parks. Your legs may get some additional miles from just the walking. Not 9 additional miles of course, but still something to think about if you try to make up the extra miles.

Well, we will be in Epcot for lunch and the after party... 9 miles is very doable.

Do you plan on racing Wine & Dine, running as a training run, or enjoying Disney and doing characters and stuff?

Yes.

Seriously, though, probably just enjoying the races, getting pictures (if possible), that kind of thing. More than training, not quite racing. My concern is that there would be a big gap between long run weekends. By this point in the training, the heavy weekends are 3 weeks apart. So, we'll be jumping from 7m/17m three weeks before, to 10m/23m three weeks later. I think we'll definitely get the total miles in walking around the parks (because we're nuts), and while that isn't for nothing, it doesn't have the training effect of a solid 20 miles.

EDIT: I would add there is another race. Army Ten Miler, but that's on a low weekend, and a shorter distance than the weekends around it. it's also a race we'll be enjoying more than racing.

 

[opusone]

One of my goals for the year was to try to eliminate the walk intervals for shorter races. I've been doing 2:30 running and :30 walking. I just did this by gradually increasing the time period before I started my walk intervals. I got up to doing 5k races and not taking a walk break until mile 2 or so. But I noticed that it's actually made me slower In order to be able to maintain the running for longer periods without taking a walk break, my run pace had to go down. I'm currently trying to decide whether I want to keep going with this goal just to say I did it or amend it since it doesn't seem to be making me faster.

This is me too! I got up to running intervals of .25 mile run/walk intervals, but for the most part it has made me slower. I honestly am having trouble deciding which is more important to me, pace or time spent actually running.

Yup. Jeff Galloway actually mentions a few experienced runners who got faster after he convinced them to incorporate scheduled walk breaks. Maybe it has something to do with how the legs get a chance to recover (perhaps push out some lactate?), and the heart rate settling down. Who knows.

@Chasing Dopey, I think you are exactly right... it helps both with offloading lactate acid as well as allowing your heart rate to recover.

I've never really thought about trying run/walk intervals, but during the Star Wars Dark Side half marathon, from about mile 4 until mile 11, I realized that there was a guy that kept passing me, then a while later, I would pass him walking. I must admit that, the first time I passed him walking, I thought he had gone out way too fast and was done. Then, probably about a mile later, I passed him again (walking), so I started paying attention. Sure enough, he was doing run/walk intervals, so we yo-yoed each other for about eight miles (and probably more, I just didn't realize it sooner). Funny enough, it was quite tough to figure out who was gaining on whom, but we were clearly about the same overall speed.

In any case, it got me thinking about trying it some time. Let's say we were doing about 7:50 miles on average, and let's assume his run/walk intervals were about 7/1 (so, run for 7 mins, walk for 1 min) - this is my assumption because I believe I would pass him about once per mile. Therefore, while I was running a steady 7:50 pace without any rest or recovery for the entire half marathon (over 1 hour 42 minutes), he was running a 7:20 pace for seven minutes followed by walking for one minute (15:00 pace was my assumption). This would allow him almost 13 minutes of total walk time during a half marathon. Does that amount of rest/recovery allow you to run 0:30/mi faster during the run intervals??? I don't know, but it might be worth trying.

Bottom line: I can definitely see how run/walk could potentially get a faster result.

 

[Kathymford]

Another thing I forgot to add about my interval running. When I was doing it consistently, I was a 1:1 interval runner. I know now they don't recommend more than 30 second walks now though. But, when I think about it now, I was wasn't RUNNING during my run interval. It was more like a jog. I wasn't pushing myself during those run segments. Or maybe I was, it's hard to remember now. I guess I will find out when I start back up again shortly. lol

 

[ZellyB]

@Chasing Dopey, I think you are exactly right... it helps both with offloading lactate acid as well as allowing your heart rate to recover.

I've never really thought about trying run/walk intervals, but during the Star Wars Dark Side half marathon, from about mile 4 until mile 11, I realized that there was a guy that kept passing me, then a while later, I would pass him walking. I must admit that, the first time I passed him walking, I thought he had gone out way too fast and was done. Then, probably about a mile later, I passed him again (walking), so I started paying attention. Sure enough, he was doing run/walk intervals, so we yo-yoed each other for about eight miles (and probably more, I just didn't realize it sooner). Funny enough, it was quite tough to figure out who was gaining on whom, but we were clearly about the same overall speed.

In any case, it got me thinking about trying it some time. Let's say we were doing about 7:50 miles on average, and let's assume his run/walk intervals were about 7/1 (so, run for 7 mins, walk for 1 min) - this is my assumption because I believe I would pass him about once per mile. Therefore, while I was running a steady 7:50 pace without any rest or recovery for the entire half marathon (over 1 hour 42 minutes), he was running a 7:20 pace for seven minutes followed by walking for one minute (15:00 pace was my assumption). This would allow him almost 13 minutes of total walk time during a half marathon. Does that amount of rest/recovery allow you to run 0:30/mi faster during the run intervals??? I don't know, but it might be worth trying.

Bottom line: I can definitely see how run/walk could potentially get a faster result.

I'm a run/walker and I often yo-yo with people in races. It can lead to some really good conversations during the race because you keep seeing the same person/people and they can get curious about your intervals. In a half marathon this fall, my husband and I were yo-yoing with another couple and so after a few miles of this they were asking us about our intervals and pace etc. On occasion during the rest of the race as they would pass us, they'd say, "see you in 90 seconds". It's definitely not for everyone. For some people, that constant change in pace can just drive them crazy. But as someone said up thread, for me, it allowed me to be willing to take on higher mileage because I KNOW I can run for 90 seconds even when I'm really tired and that can mentally make it easier for me instead of thinking, "Wow, I still have to run for 6 more miles" or whatever the distance might be. I like to think of it as bite-sized pieces.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

But as someone said up thread, for me, it allowed me to be willing to take on higher mileage...

BINGO! Before I attempted the run/walk, I was only entertaining maybe doing a 10k, but I knew I could do more the first time I tried it. Now getting ready for Dopey.

In fact, that first time out has made everything possible. I'll be getting into triathlons next year. I really need to find Jeff Galloway and thank him at the next expo.

 

[opusone]

I'll be getting into triathlons next year.

Swim/float intervals?

 

[Chasing Dopey]

Swim/float intervals?

I'm still working out the physics on that... that's why it'll be next year.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Yes.

Seriously, though, probably just enjoying the races, getting pictures (if possible), that kind of thing. More than training, not quite racing. My concern is that there would be a big gap between long run weekends. By this point in the training, the heavy weekends are 3 weeks apart. So, we'll be jumping from 7m/17m three weeks before, to 10m/23m three weeks later. I think we'll definitely get the total miles in walking around the parks (because we're nuts), and while that isn't for nothing, it doesn't have the training effect of a solid 20 miles.

EDIT: I would add there is another race. Army Ten Miler, but that's on a low weekend, and a shorter distance than the weekends around it. it's also a race we'll be enjoying more than racing.

You could consider changing the other weekends to 18 miles and 22 miles to make the gap smaller between the jump. Another addition you could make is a short very easy run on Sunday evening after the half-marathon. It won't elicit a 20 mile run effect, but it will definitely help elicit some run on tired legs benefits. But I wouldn't add any length of substance on the beginning/end of the half marathon if you plan to do it at paces between training and racing.

 

[MommaoffherRocker]

I had to cut my run short yesterday because my arch started feeling funny and the leg that has been hurting on and off for months was getting worse. I think it might be time to see a doc. I feel super depressed since I have been doing so well with training and just signed up for Dumbo. Thanks for letting me vent!!

 

[Baloo in MI]

QOTD: I am curious about how everyone plans their running schedule. How far into the future does your training plan go? How often do you find yourself revising pace/distance/ect once you originally planned them?

ATTQOTD: I have my runs planned out till the end of January at this point. During the fall I will probably add to it for spring races based on my fitness level and achievements at that time. Things don't always go as planned, as life happens. I do try to at least hit the correct mileage.

I am currently planned out thru Dopey and recovery afterwards. I have shifted some things based on life or on an added race in the past. I try to stick to the plan as exact as I can. I have found I am a give an inch take a mile kind of person. One missed run that is rescheduled, for me, can quickly turn into multiple missed runs if I am not being really intentional. I try to set up simple rewards for hitting my training plan exact for a week. June went well and July is off to a good start!

 

[Miranda]

View attachment 180040

If you want to switch from the run/walk intervals to continuous running, then check out these paces. I would recommend that 80% of your training would be done at 14:04 min/mile or slower for a current fitness of a HM of 2:45. Do you feel as if you could sustain a run of 3 miles at 14:32 min/mile? Based on your walk intervals, I would say you are likely capable of this. It might just be a matter of slowing down.

Instead of a 9:30-10:30 run with walk intervals on a shorter distance race, what about a 11:32 min/mile without a walk interval for a 5K? Around the same overall pace, but one is run/walk and the other continuous. Do you think you could do this?

I've never done run/walk, so forgive my naivety on the subject, but what does it feel like to do run/walk? Could you describe what it feels like to run at 12:12 and then walk at 14:00? What is the feeling you have at the end of the running interval (tired legs, out of breath, etc.)? If you were to skip a walking interval, what does it feel like (tired legs, out of breath, etc.)? This will help me better relate and give advice.

I had to really stop and think about this. Right now I would say that I if I just want a walk break, not actually need one, it's because my legs are starting to get tired. When I feel like I need one, it's because I'm very winded, usually because I was running uphill. Sometimes, I am just stopping to walk because it's time to stop to walk. I'm not particularly winded yet or my legs aren't particularly tired. My watch just says it's time to stop.

I don't know that I've ever actually run as slow as 11:32 or 12:12 and noticed and took stock of how I felt. I really only seem to have two speeds right now: "this is a shorter distance so I can work harder" speed, and "I'm trying to start slower because I know I'm going longer, but it's still probably too fast and I'm eventually going to slow down" speed. Slowing down from a combo of just general running slowdown because I probably started a little too fast but mostly because I'm walking more for whatever reason (either I just want to or I actually need to).

After my HM this weekend, I will have 2 weeks, capped off with what should be a fairly fast 5K course (it's pretty flat) to try some things out before diving into a 12 week plan for the fall, so I will have to experiment a bit. Last year for this 5K was the first time that I did actually experiment with skipping some run intervals, and I have done it in 5K races since then, usually at the start, skipping 2-3 walks, so that the first run ends up being like 5:30-7:00. Then in the rest of the miles I might skip one here or there, usually if there's a good downhill, which leaves me with a few blocks of 3:30. For longer races, I usually only skip the very first walk, which leaves me with an uninterrupted 3:30 at the start of the race, then into intervals.

 

[doctorintheTARDIS]

Anyone run with headphones through the rain before? Did they survive?

I have a pair of wireless beats (the ones meant for running...I don't know the specific name) and I just got them a few weeks ago.

It's more than likely going to pour during my race on Saturday (there's currently a 60% chance for the 3 hours before during and after my race) and I'm just hoping the thunder stays away.

Either way, I've never ran without music, but I don't want my headphones pooping out on me (especially because they are like $300! Thank goodness I got it as a promotion with my new apple computer!)

Any other suggestions for running in the rain?

 

[roxymama]

I had same issue once. I brought cheap target $9 pair. Ended up not raining. I've also had my music poop out on me entirely more than once but the race atmosphere got me through it. I'd suggest a cheap pair if u are worried!

 

[roxymama]

Oh and I like to run in hats if it's gonna rain (on my training runs in the neighborhood.). Not sure if u are used to running with a hat. They make some nice light-weight running ones that u can get at sports stores.

 

[Disneyland_emily]

I've also had my music poop out on me entirely more than once but the race atmosphere got me through it

After it happened twice I took the hint and now go music less while running... Realized my brain swirls faster and solves the worlds problems far easier...

 

[Kathymford]

I cannot be left alone with my thoughts while running. It would be horrible. Must. Have. Music/podcasts. lol

 

[DopeyBadger]

I know this was not directed at me, but I can answer from my perspective. For me, for the most part, it's my legs. Tired legs, need to stop to give them a break. I thought after almost a full year of real training that they would have gotten stronger by now, but that doesn't seem to have happened for me. It could be all in my head. I also think the idea of them being mini goals helps too. I get to stop after x amount of time helps me push through that portion of the run. I have noticed that has made me sometimes push harder than I should though. I run a segment faster just to get to my .25 mile so I can stop running and have a walk break. Seems like maybe that's not great. lol

I had to really stop and think about this. Right now I would say that I if I just want a walk break, not actually need one, it's because my legs are starting to get tired. When I feel like I need one, it's because I'm very winded, usually because I was running uphill. Sometimes, I am just stopping to walk because it's time to stop to walk. I'm not particularly winded yet or my legs aren't particularly tired. My watch just says it's time to stop.

I don't know that I've ever actually run as slow as 11:32 or 12:12 and noticed and took stock of how I felt. I really only seem to have two speeds right now: "this is a shorter distance so I can work harder" speed, and "I'm trying to start slower because I know I'm going longer, but it's still probably too fast and I'm eventually going to slow down" speed. Slowing down from a combo of just general running slowdown because I probably started a little too fast but mostly because I'm walking more for whatever reason (either I just want to or I actually need to).

After my HM this weekend, I will have 2 weeks, capped off with what should be a fairly fast 5K course (it's pretty flat) to try some things out before diving into a 12 week plan for the fall, so I will have to experiment a bit. Last year for this 5K was the first time that I did actually experiment with skipping some run intervals, and I have done it in 5K races since then, usually at the start, skipping 2-3 walks, so that the first run ends up being like 5:30-7:00. Then in the rest of the miles I might skip one here or there, usually if there's a good downhill, which leaves me with a few blocks of 3:30. For longer races, I usually only skip the very first walk, which leaves me with an uninterrupted 3:30 at the start of the race, then into intervals.

Thanks for sharing! I think it helps me better understand what it feels like to be a run/walker. I'll be interested to hear how your experimentation goes.