The Running Thread - 2016

[roxymama]

High fives can be embarrassing, too, though. I absolutely LOVE (where's sarcasm font, again?) coming up on a spectator putting their hand out for a high five, only to find out they were aiming for the person behind me! Especially if it's a little kid (on either end of the high five).

Or the complete miss...I've done that....totally high-fived the air!

 

[CherieFran]

This thread moves so fast that it kind of intimidates me, but I am going to try and join in and keep up!

QOTD: What are some unique items you have seen being handed out to runners during a race?

I ran a half marathon in Annapolis, Maryland a couple of years ago where they were shucking oysters at the finish festival. All-you-could-eat raw oysters! I'm not a seafood person, so doesn't appeal to me anyway, but even if I were, I'm not sure that's something I could stomach after 13.1 miles.

QOTD: Do you lace up your shoes differently than what most consider the standard method?

I've never really thought about it. I think the most extreme thing I've ever done is to not use the top two holes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Oh and forgetting that when you're running full speed in one direction, high-fiving someone's hand in a normal situation can become a devastating slap! Did that in a race once where I wasn't quite thinking about it probably nearly took off a spectator's hand with a massive high five. Always remember your additional speed adds force to the high five...

@roxymama Try Youtube'ing "Running Good Form Video" as there is a ton of content on good technique.

 

[Slogger]

This thread moves so fast that it kind of intimidates me, but I am going to try and join in and keep up!



I ran a half marathon in Annapolis, Maryland a couple of years ago where they were shucking oysters at the finish festival. All-you-could-eat raw oysters! I'm not a seafood person, so doesn't appeal to me anyway, but even if I were, I'm not sure that's something I could stomach after 13.1 miles.

Welcome aboard @CherieFran.

Raw Oysters?!!! Not sure I would partake either after running a Half.

 

[dis_or_dat]

@roxymama I like some of this guy's/website's videos (particularly the running drills one, even though I've still never done them): http://lifehacker.com/seven-running-drills-to-improve-speed-form-and-effici-1741504691 I've actually seen someone do Carioca on my typical running trail before and I almost started laughing but then it ended up being my friend's husband and also he was doing a legit running drill!

He does talk about running form, and I think he says it's basically nonsense. http://strengthrunning.com/2015/06/good-running-form/ Although he does focus on cadence on a later post.

Also, didn't know he had a coaching service, I don't use it but I find some of his posted stuff pretty useful. But other runners can chime in on the veracity of his knowledge.

 

[Slogger]

Or the complete miss...I've done that....totally high-fived the air!

That's too funny. We could do a workshop and teach you and others that are missing "high-five coordination" how to time it properly.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Speaking of high-fiving spectators: this kid ... http://fittish.deadspin.com/kid-pretends-to-high-five-marathoners-but-they-are-all-1772949467

 

[Barca33Runner]

High fives can be embarrassing, too, though. I absolutely LOVE (where's sarcasm font, again?) coming up on a spectator putting their hand out for a high five, only to find out they were aiming for the person behind me! Especially if it's a little kid (on either end of the high five).

I'm not the friendliest looking sort to begin with and generally have a pretty angry look on my face when I am running, so I just assume that high fives aren't meant for me. Also, I have a little bit of OCD when it comes to clean hands and wouldn't want to subject my sweaty, at best, hands on someone else after I have been running.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@roxymama I like some of this guy's/website's videos (particularly the running drills one, even though I've still never done them): http://lifehacker.com/seven-running-drills-to-improve-speed-form-and-effici-1741504691 I've actually seen someone do Carioca on my typical running trail before and I almost started laughing but then it ended up being my friend's husband and also he was doing a legit running drill!

He does talk about running form, and I think he says it's basically nonsense. http://strengthrunning.com/2015/06/good-running-form/ Although he does focus on cadence on a later post.

Also, didn't know he had a coaching service, I don't use it but I find some of his posted stuff pretty useful. But other runners can chime in on the veracity of his knowledge.

Yea, I'd agree somewhat with the strengthrunning guy. The type of footstrike isn't necessarily something you want to change (mid, fore, heel). The location of where the foot comes down though I believe is important. I'd disagree with him on tip #2 dependent on how vague he is with the "don't change anything you've been doing if running for 3+ years idea". I do believe there are things that can make us better. Tip #3 I can't speak to as I don't know anything about it.

I like Jeff Gaudette from Runnersconnect.net so I'm likely to agree with many of his premises in the linked audio interview in your article: http://strengthrunning.com/2013/10/proper-running-form/

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Anyone who says that running form is nonsense isn't to be trusted as a coach. Form can make the difference between running injury free and having injury problems constantly. Form can take a minute plus per mile off of your run times. Form can allow you to run more efficiently, allowing you to run farther and faster.

Form isn't everything - it is just a single piece of the puzzle. But form is very important if you want to stay injury free or if you are focused on improvement. But what may be proper form for most might actually cause problems for you, so your best bet is to find a coach and work with him/her. Have them run with you, talk about your strengths and weaknesses, and evaluate possible changes to your form that might help. On-line videos are helpful only in teaching you what you should be doing and in adding drills to get you there - but you really need someone to evaluate your stride and make recommendations.

 

[roxymama]

There's a viral video from a few years ago out there of a guy who goes around high-fiving people who are hailing taxis. Some love it and some...don't. It's pretty hilarious.

I think my favorite are the out and back high fives between people already passed the turn around and people still getting there.
Weird theory...I wonder if out and back races where the right lanes are on the inside - do you get more high-fives between people than races where the left lanes are on the inside aka the passing lane. Think about it?? hmmmmmmm

 

[roxymama]

I'd agree on "you can always improve even after 3+ years." I'm only 1+ in, but still I agree with that.

My small little running journey goes something like this.
Starts not great
fixes thing
improves
fixes thing
improves
Look how awesome I am - I am perfect
notices (me or someone else does) something or something goes wrong
Ego smash, pouts
takes step back...decides to fix
improves
Look how awesome I am - I am perfect
notices something
etc etc, on and on

Same with anything in life. My dancing, my work, my parenting. Now on to film myself and hate it

 

[Anisum]

I have no idea how my running form compares. My mother is a PT (though she doesn't specialize is sports medicine) so she can only really tell me if something major is off. That being said I've been running for a year without major injury (knock on wood) so I must be doing something right? It's possible that I could improve my form to be faster and maybe as I continue to run (and go for longer distances) I will but as long as I'm healthy I see no reason to rush to change.

 

[RunDisneyDad]

@roxymama you nailed it! Nice work.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

@roxymama BEWARE!

Well, sort of, but I've got everyone's attention. There is a problem with the vast majority of running form videos, websites, cults, etc... Most of the advice is EXCELLENT... for fast runners. (For me, fast is 7:30 m/m or thereabouts.)

So far, I've found nothing that addresses form SPECIFICALLY for, say, the 10:00 runner. Jason at StrengthRunning, for example, did a little video study on the differences, but never gets around to saying how exactly slower runners should approach their form, as some advice (step lightly, glide along the road...) just isn't applicable. Some of us weigh too much and go too slow for that kind of thing. (I do recommend Jason's program for ITBS, however.)

But, some groups (like the Chi running people) at least address different speeds. @BuckeyeBama is right that form can have a big impact on injuries and speed, and trying to force a form change can also slow you down and hurt you. (When I finally abandoned trying to 'land on my midfoot/forefoot, I got a lot faster.) If you decide to find a coach, do a lot of research first, as not all coaches are equal. (One I know of is an advocate of 800mg+ of ibuprofen as injury treatment. Not going to that guy!)

In all my research and limited experience, I've found 2 pieces that I think are universal:
1) "Landing underneath you"... I've found that keeping the head up and the arms back (i mean way back) really are key to this. Basic physics... if you're slouching forward, your body will have to compensate by letting your legs drift in front of you more. It feels silly at first (if you're a bit of sloucher like me), but it doesn't look nearly as odd as it feels. Also, practice by running in place a for a bit, then gradually drifting forward to give your body an idea of how to move. You'll need to develop some new muscles in the thighs as you'll be letting gravity help more.

2) 180 steps per minute... If you're not already at this, the steps feel super tiny, but they aren't as short as they feel, and it doesn't take long to get used to it. Again, a different set of muscles will be getting a workout as you're lifting your legs a lot more often and taking more steps for the same distance, so look out for that. (Sometimes, I end up faster than 180.)

Other than that, do check out all the videos online. There is good stuff out there and you may find something specific to you that you know you want to avoid or try. And don't get suckered into trying to land directly on your forefoot. Look up 'proprioceptive heel strike' to see what I mean.

 

[Dis5150]

I stole this from someone's training journal that @DopeyBadger wrote it on. Hopefully I am doing it right as I do it during all runs and races to make sure I have correct posture for running/breathing.

Link fingers on both hands in front of you. Turn hands down, so palms are facing the ground, fingers still linked. Raise arms over your head. Unlink fingers and bring hands/arms down to your sides, keeping shoulders back in that position. And here is one step I added - Make sure no one is around you when you bring your arms down! I almost hit someone during Princess doing this because I didn't check! Luckily DD26 grabbed me before I smacked the lady, lol!

 

[dis_or_dat]

Wow what a Pandora's box you opened @roxymama ! Haha just kidding. Great discussions! Actually I do think form does help because I read somewhere to lean forward a bit when going down hills and taking short strides it really has helped me with back and knee pain.

 

[roxymama]

Wow what a Pandora's box you opened @roxymama ! Haha just kidding. Great discussions! Actually I do think form does help because I read somewhere to lean forward a bit when going down hills and taking short strides it really has helped me with back and knee pain.

Haha, I have a habit of opening lots of pandora's boxes at work too.
I do like the point someone made about form for fast people vs not fast. So much information to take in. I will make sure to "beware" and not do anything too drastic. Mostly I think I will film myself just to see how I look. Maybe it's not so bad?

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

@roxymama BEWARE!

Well, sort of, but I've got everyone's attention. There is a problem with the vast majority of running form videos, websites, cults, etc... Most of the advice is EXCELLENT... for fast runners. (For me, fast is 7:30 m/m or thereabouts.)

So far, I've found nothing that addresses form SPECIFICALLY for, say, the 10:00 runner. Jason at StrengthRunning, for example, did a little video study on the differences, but never gets around to saying how exactly slower runners should approach their form, as some advice (step lightly, glide along the road...) just isn't applicable. Some of us weigh too much and go too slow for that kind of thing. (I do recommend Jason's program for ITBS, however.)

But, some groups (like the Chi running people) at least address different speeds. @BuckeyeBama is right that form can have a big impact on injuries and speed, and trying to force a form change can also slow you down and hurt you. (When I finally abandoned trying to 'land on my midfoot/forefoot, I got a lot faster.) If you decide to find a coach, do a lot of research first, as not all coaches are equal. (One I know of is an advocate of 800mg+ of ibuprofen as injury treatment. Not going to that guy!)

In all my research and limited experience, I've found 2 pieces that I think are universal:
1) "Landing underneath you"... I've found that keeping the head up and the arms back (i mean way back) really are key to this. Basic physics... if you're slouching forward, your body will have to compensate by letting your legs drift in front of you more. It feels silly at first (if you're a bit of sloucher like me), but it doesn't look nearly as odd as it feels. Also, practice by running in place a for a bit, then gradually drifting forward to give your body an idea of how to move. You'll need to develop some new muscles in the thighs as you'll be letting gravity help more.

2) 180 steps per minute... If you're not already at this, the steps feel super tiny, but they aren't as short as they feel, and it doesn't take long to get used to it. Again, a different set of muscles will be getting a workout as you're lifting your legs a lot more often and taking more steps for the same distance, so look out for that. (Sometimes, I end up faster than 180.)

Other than that, do check out all the videos online. There is good stuff out there and you may find something specific to you that you know you want to avoid or try. And don't get suckered into trying to land directly on your forefoot. Look up 'proprioceptive heel strike' to see what I mean.

This was super informative- thank you!

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

In all my research and limited experience, I've found 2 pieces that I think are universal:
1) "Landing underneath you"... I've found that keeping the head up and the arms back (i mean way back) really are key to this. Basic physics... if you're slouching forward, your body will have to compensate by letting your legs drift in front of you more. It feels silly at first (if you're a bit of sloucher like me), but it doesn't look nearly as odd as it feels. Also, practice by running in place a for a bit, then gradually drifting forward to give your body an idea of how to move. You'll need to develop some new muscles in the thighs as you'll be letting gravity help more.

2) 180 steps per minute... If you're not already at this, the steps feel super tiny, but they aren't as short as they feel, and it doesn't take long to get used to it. Again, a different set of muscles will be getting a workout as you're lifting your legs a lot more often and taking more steps for the same distance, so look out for that. (Sometimes, I end up faster than 180.)[/USER]

I think you might find that these two points are tied very closely to each other...very likely that if you are doing one, you are also doing the other. I run very upright and my cadence is in the 190+ range (over 200 if I'm racing)...short choppy steps.