The Running Thread - 2016

[DVCFan1994]

I definitely takes a few weeks to really zero in, and it isn't as precise as a manual calculation, but it is very helpful for establishing a baseline and tracking improvement. I certainly don't swear by the actual VO2 calculation, but I still use it.

As for the training effect - after a few weeks this is very helpful. Most runs should be right at 3. If you are consistently at or near 4 in training effect, you are running too hard and not getting maximum benefit from your running.

I've never done a lab based VO2max but from what I've read the value the Garmin outputs and the lab based test are close (within a few points) when using the HR strap (so a good estimate but not a replacement). The Garmin calculates the VO2max based on HRV (heart rate variability) when you use a heart rate strap. But the Garmin 235 can generate a VO2max with only the optical HR monitor through a few data manipulations in their formula. You'll need to run with it a few times before the data becomes more accurate because it needs more HR vs pace data points to figure out a curve for you. Entering an accurate max HR and resting HR does play a role in the VO2max and training effect output so make sure those are accurate as well.

Lastly, the estimated race pace that it spits out is a best case scenario. It assumes you have maximized all of your abilities to hit that number. So when your PRs are minutes or hours away from those times, don't worry it is for almost all of us. What the race predictor does say is if your heart rate was the only variable in running then you would be capable of that predicted race time. As an example, most people finish a marathon at between 60-70% VO2max. The Garmin's marathon estimated finish time is based on a 77-85% VO2max finish (the higher the VO2max the higher on the % curve it puts you and the more unreasonable it gets, though there is probably a connection between someone with a higher VO2max being able to run at a higher % as well). Physically it's possible, but almost none of us will be able to reach that predicted race time.

Thanks to both of you! My VO2 was better than I would have expected, sort of in the too good to be true category. And my training effect was 4, but today was a purposefully harder effort than usual. It will be interesting to see how things change as the more data is available. My max HR (195) was from a recent test, and having worn a Holter monitor for a whole month last fall I have a solid understanding of my RHR (~50 as long as I'm not sick).

And the predicted race times? All I could do was laugh at them. So clearly, the watch has some math to redo Even under the most ideal circumstances, I don't see any of the times predicted as a possibility in the next year. Its not self doubt (going back to todays question) It is realism. The times were just a good chuckle.

 

[opusone]

A 6:30:00 would be:

2014 - Roughly top 125 (don't have the exact because the sheet I have doesn't incorporate 5K times) out of 6,139 finishers (That year, I finished around top 900-950 by my guess)
2015 - 136th place out of 6,488 finishers (That year, I finished 672nd)
2016 - 101st place out of 6,323 finishers (That year, I finished 160th)

*credit goes to @opusone for making the excel sheets for me for 2015 and 2016.

Including the 5k in 2014, 6:30:00 would have been 119th place. Also, @DopeyBadger, just so you have all the data, you were 914th in 2014.

 

[Chaitali]

Congrats on making your goal. 15 or 20 minute walk can be a pain but also makes for a good warm up.
Do the Marines run that race and where in DC do they do it?

Yep. And since we got there so early, we did a 15 minute warm up job in addition to the walking from the car to the start line. I really feel like the warm up in advance helps during the race

The last 2 years, the race has been on Ohio Drive by the Lincoln Memorial. We parked on 23rd and Constitution, walked past the memorial, and made a left on Ohio Drive to get to the start line. It's nice because it's right by the river and it's a pretty location. 100% of the proceeds benefit the Semper Fi Fund but I'm not sure if the marines organize the race.

http://semperfi5k.com/eventinfo.php Here's the website.

 

[roxymama]

I think self doubt played a bigger role in why I did not run for so many years. And I doubted my commitment to it just as much as the physical. But the more I run, the more that doubt-monster shrivels up. I do have waves of doubt at times and waves of over-confidence at others, but more and more running and races are routine things I know I can do. Not easy things, but I know I can do it. Like a hard project at work or cooking a fancy dinner or taking care of a sick kid, etc. Hard, but I know I can do it.
The best thing for my self-doubt though was marrying a guy who senses it and helps me turn it off by being my cheerleader.

I will say that I've been easing into distance slowly, but I don't think it's from doubt that I can do it. I know I can complete a half right now. It's more that I want that half to be enjoyable to a degree, so I've been working hard on training properly so that each distance I come across is not something I am dying through but feeling relatively normal (well, normal for running hard.) And it's been hard to communicate that to people I know. I just want running to be something I like to do so I'm baby-stepping everything. Spreading out the milestones.

Oh and I doubt less when I am moving than when I am standing still (corral vs crossing the start = mood swing.)

 

[MommaoffherRocker]

ATTQOTD: I have a huge problem with self doubt, not just with running but pretty much anything I do(Thanks dad). When it comes to running the struggle is not so much the distance but how slow I am. The doubt will creep in when I don't get a PR every run, I feel like I should be improving at a faster rate. Last year, when I started running, I was at a 16+ min mile and I just finished Tink with an average pace of 13:32 which is a big improvement but honestly I was a little sad it wasn't faster. I am taking steps to be more positive. I am covering my watch now so I can enjoy my runs and not focus on my pace. I also love that you have to sign up for Disney runs so far in advance because it keeps me motivated. Once I sign up for a race I am not backing down!!

 

[roxymama]

That's what I had to do...I signed up for a Disney race before I knew what I was getting into and I couldn't back down! Guessing a Disney race will be my first half for this exact reason.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Including the 5k in 2014, 6:30:00 would have been 119th place. Also, @DopeyBadger, just so you have all the data, you were 914th in 2014.

You're the man! I'm actually surprised how close my guesses were.

 

[RunDisneyDad]

You're the man! I'm actually surprised how close my guesses were.

I have a dumb question (because I'm sure I'm missing something obvious). The 5K is not chip timed correct? If that's correct, how is the 5K calculated in the Dopey results? Or, is it not included in the aggregate?

 

[opusone]

I have a dumb question (because I'm sure I'm missing something obvious). The 5K is not chip timed correct? If that's correct, how is the 5K calculated in the Dopey results? Or, is it not included in the aggregate?

I believe that it is chip-timed for Dopey participants, but not for 5k participants. If I remember correctly, the Dopey folks wear the same bib that they wear for the 10k, so they do have the chip on their bib (whereas the 5k runners' do not have chips on their bibs).

 

[RunDisneyDad]

Ohhh, gotcha..yea, that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Kathymford]

So my first 5k with my new FR 235! I loved it. This was also the first time that I've run a race that the mileage from the course was EXACT to whichever app/watch whatever I'm using said it was. It could be because it was a small, local (i.e., not Disney) race. But either way, I loved that part. And I don't know what any of it means, but I love all the data coming out of it. LOL. Thanks for the explanations @BuckeyeBama and @DopeyBadger for the explanations. I feel like we could have Garmin training on the side. LOL

I didn't quite make my goal of sub 37 minute 5k (official result was 38.22). I only have one other officially timed 5k to compare it to. The San Diego Hot Chocolate 5k in 2014 was 47.42. I'll just ignore the memories of how hilly that was and look at the improvement over 2 years as a double bonus. I have a RunKeeper-timed Avengers 5k in November 2014 at 43.02. Still looks like great improvement to me. I'll take it.

ATTQOTD: I have lots of self-doubt. Especially during races. Anything can throw me off my game: crowds, electronic malfunctions, weather. It's a definite weakness.

Apparently, I'm a quitter or I'm used to only doing things that come naturally to me. I was a dancer at a performing arts high school and with no other training had no problem rising to the top (too bad I didn't start training earlier!). But I only switched to dance, because I was on the bottom rung compared to everyone else at the flute and dance was easier. I think I just learned something about me. Haha. I was giving up quickly when running when all of my friends (all 5 of them, ha), were immediately better/faster than me. My own bf has one prosthetic leg (true story) and he is a ton faster than me. I didn't like that. I still don't. But once I started actually training and started seeing improvements and started "competing" with myself, it has gotten a little better.

I think that's why I like the Garmin. More data = more ways to show I'm getting better. It's just like losing weight, it's not just the scale number that matters, it's the inches, or how clothes fit, etc. There might actually be something to this self improvement thing.

ATTQOTD: I have a huge problem with self doubt, not just with running but pretty much anything I do(Thanks dad). When it comes to running the struggle is not so much the distance but how slow I am. The doubt will creep in when I don't get a PR every run, I feel like I should be improving at a faster rate. Last year, when I started running, I was at a 16+ min mile and I just finished Tink with an average pace of 13:32 which is a big improvement but honestly I was a little sad it wasn't faster. I am taking steps to be more positive. I am covering my watch now so I can enjoy my runs and not focus on my pace. I also love that you have to sign up for Disney runs so far in advance because it keeps me motivated. Once I sign up for a race I am not backing down!!

I am right there with you Momma. See above. We can do this!

 

[alexce]

ATTQOTD: I started losing time and comfort during my runs leading up to the Dark Side half, so much that I began to doubt my ability to just go 3 miles. I realize now I have a back problem that I'm treating with a doc (which affected my gait), but I let it really damage my confidence.

I'm nervous about ramping back up. But I'm not planning on any long distance until the WDW half. So I'm going to take it slow and easy. And positively.

 

[DopeyBadger]

So my first 5k with my new FR 235! I loved it. This was also the first time that I've run a race that the mileage from the course was EXACT to whichever app/watch whatever I'm using said it was. It could be because it was a small, local (i.e., not Disney) race. But either way, I loved that part. And I don't know what any of it means, but I love all the data coming out of it. LOL. Thanks for the explanations @BuckeyeBama and @DopeyBadger for the explanations. I feel like we could have Garmin training on the side. LOL

I didn't quite make my goal of sub 37 minute 5k (official result was 38.22). I only have one other officially timed 5k to compare it to. The San Diego Hot Chocolate 5k in 2014 was 47.42. I'll just ignore the memories of how hilly that was and look at the improvement over 2 years as a double bonus. I have a RunKeeper-timed Avengers 5k in November 2014 at 43.02. Still looks like great improvement to me. I'll take it.

As always, got any questions about what any of the Garmin data means, just ask as we're all here to learn from each other.

One thing to consider when comparing previous PRs to new ones is to look at the % improvement. When running shorter distance races the improvement in total time always seems so small, but when using a % improvement it makes it comparable to previous improvements. Thus, your 47:42 down to 38:22 in a 5K is an astronomical improvement of 19.6% in two years. That is nothing short of spectacular and you should be very proud of it. That's like someone taking their half marathon from 2:00 down to 1:36, it's downright unbelievable! Congrats!

 

[Kathymford]

As always, got any questions about what any of the Garmin data means, just ask as we're all here to learn from each other.

One thing to consider when comparing previous PRs to new ones is to look at the % improvement. When running shorter distance races the improvement in total time always seems so small, but when using a % improvement it makes it comparable to previous improvements. Thus, your 47:42 down to 38:22 in a 5K is an astronomical improvement of 19.6% in two years. That is nothing short of spectacular and you should be very proud of it. That's like someone taking their half marathon from 2:00 down to 1:36, it's downright unbelievable! Congrats!

Well, when you put it that way ... I might just have to print this post and frame it! Thank you!!

 

[Waiting2goback]

Today was the NCRC Classic Half Marathon here in Cary, NC. I went into it with mixed feelings and I guess I came out of it with mixed feelings, too.

Let's start with today's Word of the Day:
Hills

Hills as in nothing flat on the course. Hills as in if you don't like this hill you're on, try the next one as soon as this one ends. Hills as in "flat" is a 4-letter word. Seriously, here's the elevation profile from my Garmin:

View attachment 170626

I have previously tried to run flatter courses, but this one fit nicely into my schedule, so I figured what the heck.

Overall, the running portion of the race went pretty well. The weather was great for NC this time of year. 59deg and cloudy to start. The course itself was through Umstead Park on wide hard pack trails. I ran the front and second halves of the out and back at nearly identical paces, despite legs that we're getting increasingly annoyed with me. I ended up crossing the line at an even 2:05:00. I didn't have a goal for this race, since I knew it was going to be a new challenge with the hills, so all in all I'm pretty happy with the result.

The biggest issue I had was with the organization of the race re: porta-potties. There were a grand total of 10 at the start line to support ~600 runners. The one line feeding them was very long and I ended up using one a little too early. On the course there were all of 2 available! Not cool. Especially for a race that touts itself as the "state championship" 10k and half marathons. It's also a bit odd that the signature event of the "North Carolina Roadrunners Club" is run on park trails.

One last interesting note from this morning. Apparently superstitions are governed by the laws of multiplication, not addition. I was a bit concerned when a black cat ran across the road in front of me on the way out of the neighborhood on the way to the race. A little further down the road a second all black cat crossed right in front of me. The race was either going to be a disaster as the effects of two black cats doubled down on me or it was going to be ok if two negatives combined to make a positive. Thankfully, the math was in my favor!

That's quite the elevation chart. Great job with the race. Kinda stinks about the porta potties.

Shortly thereafter I hit a groove and had one of the defining moments of my life.

I think a lot of people have those defining moments during runs, especially the marathon. I know for me the marathon changed my life and view of my
self.

ATTQOTD: I have a huge problem with self doubt, not just with running but pretty much anything I do(Thanks dad). When it comes to running the struggle is not so much the distance but how slow I am. The doubt will creep in when I don't get a PR every run, I feel like I should be improving at a faster rate. Last year, when I started running, I was at a 16+ min mile and I just finished Tink with an average pace of 13:32 which is a big improvement but honestly I was a little sad it wasn't faster. I am taking steps to be more positive. I am covering my watch now so I can enjoy my runs and not focus on my pace. I also love that you have to sign up for Disney runs so far in advance because it keeps me motivated. Once I sign up for a race I am not backing down!!

It was signing up for a Disney race that got me started. Once I committed to Disney I knew I wouldn't quit. I told everyone I was doing it and people laughed at me. That, on top of the cost of the trip, I couldn't not finish.


QOTD: I doubted myself big time when I first started running. With each race, and each new distance it disappeared. Now I don't doubt myself when it comes to running. I know that if I decide to do something, I will be able to finish. I still need to work on my speed and cross training. And like John, I need to work on my diet to get to my goals. Now, I have self doubt in all other areas of my life. This is why running amazes me so much and why I don't want to give it up.

 

[keahgirl8]

I didn't capture the other question, but I am about 2400 miles from Disney World. That's absolutely the farthest! My other races are all pretty local.

Deal

I got Racing Weight, by Matt Fitzgerald. I liked his 80/20 Running book so I thought I'd give it a shot. I lost 30 lbs when I initially began running but I have been the same for the last 18 months and it's not like I don't have more to lose.

I have that book! It was kind of overwhelming to me at first, and I had a little trouble getting into it. I want to try it again though.

I really like Matt Fitzgerald's books. I recently read How Bad Do You Want It. Good mix of technical, science stuff and real life stories. My favorite though I think was Iron War. Really good book about the Kona Ironman. He's a smart guy.

I didn't know about his other books. I'll have to check them out!

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

I get a little nervous before a race, but I just have to remind myself that I am prepared and I am right where I'm supposed to be. I honestly don't have much desire to do a big crazy distance yet, so that's not a concern!

 

[baxter24]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

ATTQOTD: I don't struggle with self-doubt but I have realized that I tend to be a little hard on myself when I don't perform the way I feel I should or am capable of.

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: How much do you warm-up and cool-down? Is it distance based or time based? When you give a time for a run, does it include warm-up or cool-down? If so, are they significantly different from the "performance" part?

ATTQOTD: MY answer is going to be a little long here. In the past for a normal run, my warm up was included in the total amount of miles done that day. For half marathons and shorter distances a warm-up could be anywhere between a half a mile to 3 depending on what the days goal are. A cool down is about .5 mile to 1 mile for races. On the warm up portions I will start of slowly and end the last quarter mile at that days desired race pace goal. Recently I am working on a dynamic stretching routine and finish my runs with a static stretching routine. Tis idea was given to me by the trainer that comes to our office to work people out during lunch. He is a former NFL player and has worked with athletes in track as well as other sports. He basically told me that running has left me very tight and I need to loosen up things to help with my overall performance. Only a week in thus far so I am not sure if it is making a difference yet.

 

[ZellyB]

I'm terrible at warming up. Usually too impatient to get started. We usually walk for a short time to warm up. Maybe a quarter mile or so and then cool down is also another walk quarter to half a mile. We don't include that distance in our official distance.

 

[Miranda]

ATTQOTD: None