The Running Thread—2023

[FFigawi]

Sugg Farm 40 Miler Race Report
One day I'll learn. Today was not that day.

When deciding whether to register for a race, I look at multiple factors that can be either positive () or negative () and weigh them carefully together to decide whether it's the right race for me. Today's race scored out as follows:

Is it a trail race?
Is the course stupid hilly?
Does the race require ultra-level training during the heat of summer?
Are race day temps likely to be summer level heat/humidity?
Is the race run 1/2 mile from my house?

So, of course I registered.

Today's course consisted of 8 x 5-mile out and backs on trails starting at a local park, running down to and halfway around a lake and up the hill on the other side. There were significant hills throughout. I don't do training runs in that area because of those hills. The race started overcast at a T+D ~138 and it wasn't long before we were hearing thunder in the distance. About 90 minutes in, that thunder caught up to us in the form of heavy rain for about 30 minutes. Fortunately the lightning never seemed to get too close. After the rain passed, distant thunder was a constant companion.

The rain had absolutely soaked everything and I started having trouble with my shoes. My left insert wanted to roll up and bunch under my left foot. A change of socks helped a little, but it would continue to plague me throughout. In addition, parts of the hills were steep, bare dirt that quickly turned to slippery mud. Even dry, one in particular was steep enough to be hard to control my descent on.

I continued to make good progress as the course conditions deteriorated, but as I was completing my 4th out and back I developed a significant blister on the bottom of my right foot. I was questioning the wisdom of continuing as I fought with the mud on the hills that were getting increasingly slippery as race traffic churned them up. As I came out of the woods into the field where the start/finish line was located I could see vivid lightning strikes not so far in the distance. Between the blister, the deteriorating course conditions and another storm looming, I decided 21 miles was enough and took my DNF.

I had just enough time to get home before a deluge much worse than the earlier storm struck. We're under a flash flood warning as I write this, the NC State - Notre Dame game in Raleigh was delayed more then 2 hours by the weather, and with my October race being my priority, I think I made the right decision.

For anyone interested or scoring at home, here's the elevation profile from today's race. It's a total of 3,445 feet of elevation gain. Thanks for reading!

View attachment 792436

Next time, you need two green checks

 

[RuntheMouse]

Hoka Clifton folks....

How are your shoes wearing? My last two pairs (v8 and V9) barely made 50 miles before the soles showed significant wear and I had to replace them at around 150 miles. My Hoka trail shoes last 300+.

Yes, I know, different running surfaces but still disappointed. The only saving grace is that I run almost all my miles on the trails so 150 pavement miles in my Cliftons is over a year.

I’ve given up on the Cliftons. I too was disappointed in the amount of wear and didn’t get 200 miles out of them. I switched to Asics Gel Nimbus 25 and the soles look great even after 260+ miles.

I do still have a pair on Hoka Rincons that I love but run in sparingly because the mileage I get is so low on those.

 

[jrsharp21]

I switched to Asics Gel Nimbus 25 and the soles look great even after 260+ miles.

I think I am going to grab a pair Gel Nimbus 25 for the marathon on MW. I was able to pick up a pair of Asics Novablast 3 on ebay for a steal (late night ending auction). Then I discovered a shoe that I tried on the other day with no intention of even trying out. The Saucony Axon 3. All other Saucony shoes felt too shallow on me. But the Axon felt really good. Lots of cushioning, and with being a heal striker, the rocker technology was a nice surprise. Picking them up this week and going to wear them for a 10 mile race I have coming up.

 

[SheHulk]

Question about Tailwind: I ordered a multi-serving bag of the mix, and it keeps talking about a scoop that's included. Where is the scoop? I didn't find anything in the box. What would it look like? I wound up just using kitchen measuring spoons to get the right amount.

 

[RuntheMouse]

I think I am going to grab a pair Gel Nimbus 25 for the marathon on MW. I was able to pick up a pair of Asics Novablast 3 on ebay for a steal (late night ending auction). Then I discovered a shoe that I tried on the other day with no intention of even trying out. The Saucony Axon 3. All other Saucony shoes felt too shallow on me. But the Axon felt really good. Lots of cushioning, and with being a heal striker, the rocker technology was a nice surprise. Picking them up this week and going to wear them for a 10 mile race I have coming up.

Curious to hear your thoughts on the Novablast 3 when you get them. They’re on my radar.

 

[jmasgat]

Question about Tailwind: I ordered a multi-serving bag of the mix, and it keeps talking about a scoop that's included. Where is the scoop? I didn't find anything in the box. What would it look like? I wound up just using kitchen measuring spoons to get the right amount.

There is a scoop in the bag. It may just be buried.

 

[nancipants]

Yeah, I bought three bags and mine were buried.

 

[SheHulk]

There is a scoop in the bag. It may just be buried.

Yeah, I bought three bags and mine were buried.

Ah thanks I took out a slotted spoon and excavated it! Now I know.

 

[nancipants]

Ah thanks I took out a slotted spoon and excavated it! Now I know.

I thought I was going crazy when I got my bag.

 

[avondale]

@camaker , so sorry that the race didn't turn out as you wanted! I think you made a good decision to DNF on it.

Is it a trail race?
Is the course stupid hilly?
Does the race require ultra-level training during the heat of summer?
Are race day temps likely to be summer level heat/humidity?

So funny because the last two here are flat "NOPE"s for me. I'm working up to the "stupid hilly" part....

There were significant hills throughout. I don't do training runs in that area because of those hills.

...but this should have been like four red Xs for you. I did that once for a road HM in my area - didn't train on the actual route because it was too hilly. I paid for that, just like you.

My left insert wanted to roll up and bunch under my left foot.

I've had this happen to me, but oddly never from rain/puddles - only from my feet getting soaked from sweat. Go figure.

I'm planning on the Harbison 50K in Columbia, SC, January 6. I've vetted it for not too much elevation gain, training during cool weather, and very low chance of a high T+D on race day. But it still gets you a red X for being a trail race. You should join me!

 

[jrsharp21]

Curious to hear your thoughts on the Novablast 3 when you get them. They’re on my radar.

Everything I have watched and read is that they are better than the Novablast 2, and I love the Novablast 2. I have had about six pairs of them of the past 2 years. So looking forward to see how the Novablast 3 feel.

 

[camaker]

@camaker , so sorry that the race didn't turn out as you wanted! I think you made a good decision to DNF on it.

So funny because the last two here are flat "NOPE"s for me. I'm working up to the "stupid hilly" part....


...but this should have been like four red Xs for you. I did that once for a road HM in my area - didn't train on the actual route because it was too hilly. I paid for that, just like you.

I've had this happen to me, but oddly never from rain/puddles - only from my feet getting soaked from sweat. Go figure.

I'm planning on the Harbison 50K in Columbia, SC, January 6. I've vetted it for not too much elevation gain, training during cool weather, and very low chance of a high T+D on race day. But it still gets you a red X for being a trail race. You should join me!

The really "funny" thing is that there are two particularly bad hills in that area that deter me from running there. Both were part of this course. In addition, they managed to find and incorporate a 3rd hill even worse than those two into the course! It was so steep I could barely keep my rate of descent under control when it was dry. As it got muddier, I 100% would have taken a nasty fall there before the race was over as I fatigued.

You are quite correct that I should have counted that as like 4 's. I still would've registered, most likely...

As much fun as a trail ultra in January sounds (or not), I'll be at MW running Dopey on blessed pavement thinking about how much better the Blizzard Beach parking lot is than a trail!

You're welcome to join me at Blackbeard's Revenge on the NC outer banks in March!. It's run 100% on pavement on the side of Highway 12. Haven't decided on 100k or 100 miles yet, though...

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

For getting even 21 miles…
Stoopid autokerrect

Question about Tailwind: I ordered a multi-serving bag of the mix, and it keeps talking about a scoop that's included. Where is the scoop? I didn't find anything in the box. What would it look like? I wound up just using kitchen measuring spoons to get the right amount.

Like a bad reporter: you didn't get the scoop!

(I'll see myself out)

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

OK, I see that the scoop was located. That's what I get for not going through the whole thread first.

In praise of Hokas: I stopped at the running store on the way to the greenway and picked up a second pair of Hokas. Countdown to the fam making comments on how colorful they are, compared to my normal reserved attire.

I then took the first pair on a run to see how my foot would do on a longer run. I did 8 miles! Woo hoo! At a 10:40 avg pace, no less. I could feel both the pinched nerve and the Morton's trying to make themselves known, but both were held at bay. I'm also happy with the distance, in that when I did the Dopey, my longest training run was only 6 miles. So, progress.

Post race analysis on the recent half has me convinced that I totally botched the fuel intake, in that I did very little until too late. So for today's run, I consumed a blok (and water. I've been paying attention) of fuel before starting and then sucked on another blok while running the first 4 miles. At the 4 mile mark, I consumed a Maurtens pack. To me, it was like a clear, flavorless jelly. No issue with taste, texture, or consuming it, as it was mostly neutral for both taste and texture.

I can say that at both the 6 and 8 mile mark, I felt so much better than I did during the recent half, so I'm going to chalk up the improvement to proper fueling. How good do I feel? Well enough at the moment that I'm thinking a short run tomorrow. But we'll see what my feet and legs have to say about that in the morning....

Maurtens: expensive, but worth it, especially since you don't have to also have water. Better than Glukos if water is available? Hard to say, but do I know that I prefer drinking the Glukos. Comments are welcome.

Naturally, the mens running tights I ordered came in while I was out running. They are listed as "Mens Compression Running Shorts with Phone Pocket" on Amazon and have "Pro" in large letters on the waistband. We'll see how they do later this week.

As for car keys: I finally remembered that the tights with pockets that I was wearing also have a pocket on the other side, so I put the car keys in there and my drivers license and credit card in the zippered pocket on the back of my shorts. Four miles later, I got smarter and put the cards in the side pocket of the tights and moved the keys to the little pocket on the back of my shorts. Yes, I had figured it out earlier in the run, just didn't want to mess with it until the turnaround point.

Today's report complete. Thank you for reading.

 

[Dopey 2020]

All this talk of shoes, I made a mistake that turned out ok except for a pain in my wallet. Usually I have 3 pairs of shoes in rotation at any time but as I dropped race after race from this years plans and things came up I just kept running on my existing stockpile. Well all of a sudden I found myself with 2 pair left with nearly 400 miles on them and very picky feet that hoped the new versions of my go to Mizunos would make me happy. Off to the store to see, got my new daily run Rider 27s, grabbed last years Wave Sky 6 for my nice long run/recovery pair -hate the new version- and will get my Saucony Endorphin speed 3s delivered tomorrow. I’m going to recommend not ever doing that, $$$$ almost as much as a Disney race
anyways, it also made me realize something I already knew but to experience it was alarming, usually I cycle them in before 200 miles, this morning ran an easy 12 mile run out of the box and i was like a different person. I can’t believe how flat the old ones get. Something you just don’t notice when it’s a little at a time

 

[jrsharp21]

I can’t believe how flat the old ones get. Something you just don’t notice when it’s a little at a time

Agree with this. When pounding the payment so often in the same pairs of shoes, you just get accustomed to the feel. Sometimes when you need a little spark into your training, a new pair of shoes is all it takes to get that bounce back into your step.

 

[mmm_texas]

All this talk of shoes, [...] I can’t believe how flat the old ones get. Something you just don’t notice when it’s a little at a time

I run in "barefoot" shoes, so mine start out flat...

 

[RunWI1265]

this morning ran an easy 12 mile run out of the box and i was like a different person. I can’t believe how flat the old ones get. Something you just don’t notice when it’s a little at a time

The feeling of a new shoe versus a shoe past it's time It's like running on clouds!

 

[BigEeyore]

Another shoe question...
I ran in Brooks for years and had no issues. My entire circle of running friends have all been running in Sauconys for awhile, and love them, so I decided to give Sauconys a try.
I am on my second pair of Saucony Guides (I need a stability shoe), and it seems like the soles wear out very quickly. I could almost always get 400+ miles on my Brooks, but I haven't even hit 300 and part of the Saucony sole is gone (happened with both pairs).
Does anyone have any experience with this issue with Saucony? My running friends don't seem to have this problem, but they run in neutrals.

 

[azrivest]

Another shoe question...
I ran in Brooks for years and had no issues. My entire circle of running friends have all been running in Sauconys for awhile, and love them, so I decided to give Sauconys a try.
I am on my second pair of Saucony Guides (I need a stability shoe), and it seems like the soles wear out very quickly. I could almost always get 400+ miles on my Brooks, but I haven't even hit 300 and part of the Saucony sole is gone (happened with both pairs).
Does anyone have any experience with this issue with Saucony? My running friends don't seem to have this problem, but they run in neutrals.

I do. The Guide 15s are in my rotation right now. I have about 100 miles in them and I think I'll get about 250-300 out of them. Granted, I've never done more than 400 miles with any pair of shoes I've owned. But if I compare them to the Adrenalines or the Kayanos, they are wearing out much quicker.