The Running Thread—2023

[Mr_Incr3dible]

Vent: I followed a new running account on instagram and the first post I saw on my feed was all about how he doesn't like treadmills. Like yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of them either, but I live in the land of heat and thunderstorms and have a clingy toddler. Sometimes they are very necessary!

I have a treadmill and seldom use it anymore as having to hold onto the hand grips makes my hands and arms hurt (carpal tunnel plus beginning of arthritis in hands…).
I just run outside when it’s warm enough to breathe. Even with that I find I’m having to extend my hands straight down and shake them out more than I used to.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

Pertinent to practically nothing else…
If I had told my younger self that I would one day do a 10k as an afternoon run, I’d have thought myself nuts.
Yet, that’s what I did yesterday evening as part of training up for later this year. And for me, I was flying!

 

[jmasgat]

Anyone know whether Garmin VO2 max calculation factors in maximum HR?

I recently reset my max HR, as it was off on the low side. It has impacted (obviously) my HR zone performance, but also weirdly I noticed the other day that my VO2 max jumped--not right away, I think, but I don't check it daily. I don't really put much stock in the absolute number, but I do look at it every so often to see any change. There is no reason it should have done that based on how I am currently running, so it got me to thinking.

I think I may drag out my HR strap and wear it for a few days to see if that makes any difference--supposed to be better than the wrist.

 

[GreatLakes]

Anyone know whether Garmin VO2 max calculation factors in maximum HR?

I recently reset my max HR, as it was off on the low side. It has impacted (obviously) my HR zone performance, but also weirdly I noticed the other day that my VO2 max jumped--not right away, I think, but I don't check it daily. I don't really put much stock in the absolute number, but I do look at it every so often to see any change. There is no reason it should have done that based on how I am currently running, so it got me to thinking.

I think I may drag out my HR strap and wear it for a few days to see if that makes any difference--supposed to be better than the wrist.

It sure does. Here is a link with information:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=lWqSVlq3w76z5WoihLy5f8

 

[Grabnar]

If y'all are REI members there's a big sale going on this coming week for some outdoors gear including some Garmins and running shoes.

 

[nancipants]

And for anyone who uses Liquid IV, it's currently on sale at Costco for $8 off. 30 packs for $21.99.

 

[jmasgat]

It sure does. Here is a link with information:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=lWqSVlq3w76z5WoihLy5f8

I read that, but still not clear. I see the whole thing about what run activity counts (at least 70% of max HR for 10+min), but not how maxHR would be used in any calculation. Also, all my run activities before and after I changed my max HR would have met the criteria.

 

[striker1064]

If y'all are REI members there's a big sale going on this coming week for some outdoors gear including some Garmins and running shoes.

I live a 20 minute walk from the flagship store. This is the time of year I go broke.

 

[nancipants]

I live a 20 minute walk from the flagship store. This is the time of year I go broke.

My husband used to work within walking distance. Same thing always happened to him.

 

[The Expert]

I recently moved very far away from multiple REI locations but just drove by one yesterday here in Vermont. I guess they heard I was coming!

 

[IamTrike]

Anyone know whether Garmin VO2 max calculation factors in maximum HR?

I recently reset my max HR, as it was off on the low side. It has impacted (obviously) my HR zone performance, but also weirdly I noticed the other day that my VO2 max jumped--not right away, I think, but I don't check it daily. I don't really put much stock in the absolute number, but I do look at it every so often to see any change. There is no reason it should have done that based on how I am currently running, so it got me to thinking.

I think I may drag out my HR strap and wear it for a few days to see if that makes any difference--supposed to be better than the wrist.

So this took me down a fun rabbit whole this morning. It looks like Garmin's VO2 Max algorithms actually come from a company called FirstBeat technology. The specifics of the algorithm aren't public but it does seem to be tied to max heart rate.
I found this blog which goes into more details about the issues with this method for VO2 Max calculation. I think the sub maximal VO2 max formula in the table is probably a close approximation of what FirstBeat does. It looks like it's divided by an age estimated max heart rate. I am guessing in the Firstbeat algorithm this is swapped out with the Max Heart rate you've entered or your watch has determined.

 

[GreatLakes]

I read that, but still not clear. I see the whole thing about what run activity counts (at least 70% of max HR for 10+min), but not how maxHR would be used in any calculation. Also, all my run activities before and after I changed my max HR would have met the criteria.

It isn't explicit but it is implied. All zones are based on max HR, at least they are if you have them set to use something other than manual zones, so as max HR changes the % of max HR you are at during any specific effort also changes.

If you use any of the fitness utilities that track things like TRIMP you'll notice that changes in max HR or any zone information will prompt you for a recalculation.

So this took me down a fun rabbit whole this morning. It looks like Garmin's VO2 Max algorithms actually come from a company called FirstBeat technology. The specifics of the algorithm aren't public but it does seem to be tied to max heart rate.
I found this blog which goes into more details about the issues with this method for VO2 Max calculation. I think the sub maximal VO2 max formula in the table is probably a close approximation of what FirstBeat does. It looks like it's divided by an age estimated VO2 max. I am guessing in the Firstbeat algorithm this is swapped out with the Max Heart rate you've entered or your watch has determined.

Garmin bought FirstBeat in 2020 but most of the algorithms are still proprietary.

 

[azrivest]

QOTD:
Do we need to adapt our running for bad air quality?
Anyone else being affected by the Alberta wildfires? We can see the smoke all the way to Quebec now...
ETA: It's not nearly as bad here in the East as in the Prairies. Was wondering if any of our fellow DISers in central NA were being really inconvenienced by the smoke

 

[The Expert]

QOTD:
Do we need to adapt our running for bad air quality?
Anyone else being affected the Alberta wildfires? We can see the smoke all the way to Quebec now...

Hi new neighbor! We're getting a bit hazy here in Vermont but nothing like the inversions we see back in Salt Lake. The weather forecasts there always included air quality, and if it was at a certain level it would advise avoiding outdoor activity. (Most of my runs are treadmill anyway.) If you have a good mask that actually filters particulates, you can still run outdoors but I wouldn't do an intense workout in bad air.

 

[flav]

QOTD:
Do we need to adapt our running for bad air quality?
Anyone else being affected the Alberta wildfires? We can see the smoke all the way to Quebec now...

ATTQOTD:
Good question. I had no answer so I went on a weather app to see what was the Air Quality index now and Quebec is much better than Florida presently. So I won’t change anything on my training at this point since I would probably train outdoors in the early morning if I was down at the beach. There was a pointer on this article which basically concludes that if air quality is bad, do not spend huge amounts of time over-exerting yourself outdoors.
https://apple.news/ARclnuQR8QYihnNu3kTIM8w

 

[Naomeri]

QOTD:
Do we need to adapt our running for bad air quality?
Anyone else being affected the Alberta wildfires? We can see the smoke all the way to Quebec now...

ATTQOTD: I try to avoid running when I can smell/taste the smoke in the air (which is why I’m glad I ran before work yesterday, when there was wind out of the south blowing the smoke back toward Canada, instead of after work when there was WNW bringing it back)

I felt like I was transported to Krypton during my Tuesday run (there are no cloud in the sky in this picture, it’s pure smoke haze)

 

[RuntheMouse]

QOTD:
Do we need to adapt our running for bad air quality?
Anyone else being affected the Alberta wildfires? We can see the smoke all the way to Quebec now...

ATTQOTD: we’ve had hazy skies all week but I didn’t notice any effect on my runs. Now yesterday was a different story. I felt good on my run but my heart rate was higher than normal. Turns out we began an air quality alert when I was finishing up. So yes, I think taking it easy isn’t a bad idea.

 

[PrincessV]

ATTQOTD: we have a smoky wildfire season most years here in west-central FL and for sure, when air quality is bad, I suffer. But I also have asthma, so that factors in. I can’t say as I do anything very different. My pace just slows naturally to compensate. Hang in there!

 

[striker1064]

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

THE REI SALE IS LIVE

This thread is half running tips, half support group anyway right?

 

[camaker]

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

THE REI SALE IS LIVE

This thread is half running tips, half support group anyway right?

Thanks for the reminder. 20% off coupon plus member dividend from buying my Fenix 7 there last year equaled a new pair of Ghost 15s to audition for $31!