The Running Thread—2023

[PrincessV]

So, I think I already know the answer to this question, but I wanted to get some feedback anyway, especially from @DopeyBadger.

As some of you know, I live in Orlando, aka "the outside is like a sauna at least six months out of the year." Today was my first hour-long run with my new Garmin and the ability to track my heart rate is fabulous! However, I wasn't running much faster than I usually do during my run intervals and even after I deliberately slowed my pace, my heartrate still creeped into Zone 3 every time I ran, forcing me to flip my intervals (from 60/30 to 30/60) to get it into Zone 2. I'm assuming this is because of the heat and humidity - am I right? I drink water when I run and try to run along a shady path in my neighborhood - is there anything else I can do to mitigate the heat? I don't mind switching to the treadmill for shorter runs but I really prefer the longer ones outside. I also can't run any earlier than I do, because I have to get my son ready for school. (And I cannot get up before 6 am or I will be a cranky monster all day.) So I guess what I'm wondering is, will the run still be beneficial to me if I keep doing 30/60 intervals during "hot as hell" season? (I am assuming yes, but I am self-conscious of my slow pace and really want to improve my fitness.) Or should I cap runs at 30 minutes during the summer and wait until it's more comfortable again to run longer?

Thanks for listening to my vent.

Fellow Floridian here: yes, it’s the heat! And it’s only going to get worse from here, as you know. Here’s what I do to get through our infernal summers:

1. I stop paying any attention to pace and go by perceived effort - if you listen, your body will tell you what pace it needs to manage the heat. I also don’t look at HR very much - I use it mostly when I know I’m feeling the heat as verification that yes, I am hot and walking for a few minutes, or sitting on a bench, or calling it a day is the right thing to do. I also set my intervals to :30run/:45walk - the extra walking helps a lot.

2. Wear as little clothing as possible. I am 100% the 50+ yo running in just a bra and shorts in summer because avoiding heat stroke trumps what anyone else thinks of me! No hats: visor only so you’re not trapping heat in your head.

3. Hydrate & electrolytes. Super important to stay on top of this.

4. Chill your on-the-run hydration in the fridge overnight before a run. It won’t stay cold long, but feels really nice while it lasts. Plop some ice cubes in for extra chill.

5. Water is your friend. If you can work drinking fountains and/or sinks into your route, use them: pour water over your head, the insides of your arms, down the back of your neck.

6. Water is your friend, part 2: if you have access to a pool, do some or all of a run by pool running in deep water. Insanely boring, but no overheating!

7. AC is your best friend. Late summer long runs, I’ll often start before sunrise and do as many miles outdoors until about 45 mins past sunrise, then I’ll finish whatever distance is left on the treadmill. Minimizes time on the ‘mill, gets the benefits of training outdoors, but greatly reduces heat stress.

8. Know when to stop. Dizzy? Chilled? Nauseous? All signs of heat stress/heat exhaustion and your body is saying “ENOUGH.”

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Ooh, also: are you using default HR zones, or did you put in your max and resting HR yourself? Defaults are probably based on 220 - age for a max, which is a good population-level metric but doesn't really work on an individual level. For example, my max HR is around 200, and I am...not 20 lol. So my zone 2 range is like 140-165, and if I tried to use default zones I would be walking the whole time because my running HR just doesn't get that low. (Another reason why effort, once you lock into it, is the best indicator for easy.)

 

[nancipants]

Fellow Floridian here: yes, it’s the heat! And it’s only going to get worse from here, as you know. Here’s what I do to get through our infernal summers:

1. I stop paying any attention to pace and go by perceived effort - if you listen, your body will tell you what pace it needs to manage the heat. I also don’t look at HR very much - I use it mostly when I know I’m feeling the heat as verification that yes, I am hot and walking for a few minutes, or sitting on a bench, or calling it a day is the right thing to do. I also set my intervals to :30run/:45walk - the extra walking helps a lot.

2. Wear as little clothing as possible. I am 100% the 50+ yo running in just a bra and shorts in summer because avoiding heat stroke trumps what anyone else thinks of me! No hats: visor only so you’re not trapping heat in your head.

3. Hydrate & electrolytes. Super important to stay on top of this.

4. Chill your on-the-run hydration in the fridge overnight before a run. It won’t stay cold long, but feels really nice while it lasts. Plop some ice cubes in for extra chill.

5. Water is your friend. If you can work drinking fountains and/or sinks into your route, use them: pour water over your head, the insides of your arms, down the back of your neck.

6. Water is your friend, part 2: if you have access to a pool, do some or all of a run by pool running in deep water. Insanely boring, but no overheating!

7. AC is your best friend. Late summer long runs, I’ll often start before sunrise and do as many miles outdoors until about 45 mins past sunrise, then I’ll finish whatever distance is left on the treadmill. Minimizes time on the ‘mill, gets the benefits of training outdoors, but greatly reduces heat stress.

8. Know when to stop. Dizzy? Chilled? Nauseous? All signs of heat stress/heat exhaustion and your body is saying “ENOUGH.”

This was all so helpful. Thank you.

I'm laughing about number 6 because we have a pool and as soon as I got home I stripped down and jumped in. It felt SO good.

 

[nancipants]

Ooh, also: are you using default HR zones, or did you put in your max and resting HR yourself? Defaults are probably based on 220 - age for a max, which is a good population-level metric but doesn't really work on an individual level. For example, my max HR is around 200, and I am...not 20 lol. So my zone 2 range is like 140-165, and if I tried to use default zones I would be walking the whole time because my running HR just doesn't get that low. (Another reason why effort, once you lock into it, is the best indicator for easy.)

I'm using the default HR zones since I have no idea how to figure out what mine should be.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I'm using the default HR zones since I have no idea how to figure out what mine should be.

No worries! You don't have to get a lab test or anything. But have you had a relatively recent run (often a 5K race) where you were really giving it everything you had for an extended period of time (like a couple of minutes)? You can base your max HR off of those last few minutes of that race. Extended, repeated hill sprints are another place you can get an approximate max. If you don't have data for anything like that and want to get more accurate HR zones, you can do something like 20 minutes hard effort and all-out for the last few minutes to get an estimate.

Or if you're thinking, "no way, I don't want to do that", go back to your effort on your runs. When you're drifting into what your watch says is zone 3, does it feel harder? When you finish your run, are you tired? If it feels easy and you're not tired when you get home, you might just go ahead and ignore what your watch says your HR zones are. Or, on the other hand, if your watch says you're in zone 2 and you'd have trouble holding a normal conversation, then you might have a lower-than-average max HR...and you should also ignore your watch's HR zones.

Also keep in mind that your watch might be off in measuring your HR. If you're inputting your own max and resting HR based on what your watch tells you, that's actually not a big deal as long as your watch is consistently wrong. But if your watch measures your HR as 3 bpm higher than it actually is, but it's using default zones, then even if the default zones work for you, your zones will be a little off because the measurement is off. (Does that make sense? I feel like that came out more confused than it is in my head lol.)

 

[camaker]

I'm using the default HR zones since I have no idea how to figure out what mine should be.

You'll need to switch the watch to %HRR (heart rate reserve) monitoring and know your resting and maximum heart rates. You then find your heart rate reserve, essentially your "working range":

HRR = Max HR - Resting HR

The zone ranges (or at least starting points of each zone) are then calculated as follows:

Zone 1 = Resting HR + (50% x HRR)
Zone 2 = Resting HR + (60% x HRR)
Zone 3 = Resting HR + (70% x HRR)
Zone 4 = Resting HR + (80% x HRR)
Zone 5 = Resting HR + (90% x HRR)

 

[PrincessV]

@nancipants just want to add this: right now is when it’s the worst - we’re not acclimated to the serious heat yet, and our minds and bodies want to keep clocking miles as we’ve been doing for months. The heat is never not going to feel, you know… HOT, but by June-ish my body’s adjusted and handles it better, and my mind has accepted my summer pace as the new normal. I always find April into May to be hard.

 

[nancipants]

@WillRunForPizza @camaker Thank you so much!

@PrincessV Ugh, it really is. Spring and fall are worst for me because 1) I'm not used to it yet, and 2) I'm SICK of it.

 

[Blue Caterpillar]

@WillRunForPizza @camaker Thank you so much!

@PrincessV Ugh, it really is. Spring and fall are worst for me because 1) I'm not used to it yet, and 2) I'm SICK of it.

I'm in Arizona, so I'm not sure these would work as well in humidity. I am a big fan of those cooling buffs, where you get them wet and they stay cold as they dry. I also really like the long sleeve sun shirts (usually white) that have both upf 50 and wicking/cooling properties.

Remember training in the heat makes running in the cool seem like you have developed speed overnight!

 

[nancipants]

I'm in Arizona, so I'm not sure these would work as well in humidity. I am a big fan of those cooling buffs, where you get them wet and they stay cold as they dry. I also really like the long sleeve sun shirts (usually white) that have both upf 50 and wicking/cooling properties.

Remember training in the heat makes running in the cool seem like you have developed speed overnight!

I have cooling towels for our Disney park days (and one they gave us after Princess) so I really should get into the habit of running with them. And you're right, I won't ever need to worry about not being used to running in the heat!

 

[LorrieAnn5]

FFQOTD: If the Disney races did not have the "challenge" aspect to the races, specifically Marathon Weekend, do you think the races would fill up as fast as they currently do?

This is sort of an offshoot answer to this question.....does anyone who is only running one race feel like a "slacker" b/c of all the hype of the Challenges? I'm "just" running the half marathon and my husband is "just" running the 10k. This is sort of for childcare purposes because we both can't run the same race at the same time leaving our kid alone, but also I don't have the desire to give it race effort two early mornings in a row.....

Do you think people running one race on the weekend would feel more normal if the Challenges did not exist?

 

[Herding_Cats]

FFATTQOTD: I think things would sell out differently for sure. As stated, the number of bibs that are allocated specifically for the challenges would change the landscape significantly.

FFQOTD: If the Disney races did not have the "challenge" aspect to the races, specifically Marathon Weekend, do you think the races would fill up as fast as they currently do?

This is sort of an offshoot answer to this question.....does anyone who is only running one race feel like a "slacker" b/c of all the hype of the Challenges? I'm "just" running the half marathon and my husband is "just" running the 10k. This is sort of for childcare purposes because we both can't run the same race at the same time leaving our kid alone, but also I don't have the desire to give it race effort two early mornings in a row.....

Do you think people running one race on the weekend would feel more normal if the Challenges did not exist?

I struggled a little bit (briefly) with this before registration. This was also compounded by DH's idea that we take DD with us for MW (an idea that I was thankfully able to talk him out of.) Would it be a "better choice" to run just the 10k and full? Or just the 5k and the half? I definitely would different emotions on race morning as someone running just X race.

However, I think I would try to give more effort if I weren't doing a challenge. It would be about more than just finishing. Not necessarily PR efforts, but not "let's get over the finish line upright so we can go again tomorrow" effort.

 

[GuinnessRunner]

FFATTQOTD: It's going way back, but the half and full used to be run on the same day and I believe they still sold out. Even once they split them to Saturday/Sunday, as I recall they would sell out (not always but not never either), but obviously months later instead of minutes. Goofy was born out of the fact that Disney saw people registering for both the first few years after the split and deciding to capitalize on it. So I do think it would have an impact on the speed of sell outs, but not that they would still occur (just like NYC, Chicago and others would sell out Day 1 without a lottery system).

I do think it would help with the "just" feeling but not eliminate it. I think it's human nature to see people doing something more than you are and convince yourself you're "just" doing something shorter. So as long as there's a distance father than what I signed up for, I would still find myself saying I'm "just" doing the lesser one when talking to people at the race. I do think it would help get more recognition from the race announcers though who I do think emphasize Dopey/Goofy more than indiviual race runners, but that might just be my perception too.

 

[LSUlakes]

Do you think people running one race on the weekend would feel more normal if the Challenges did not exist?

I think if it would have never been an official event, some folks would have done it but it would not be as popular is it would be if they suddenly stopped doing it now.

Interesting thought, when did the Boston to Big Sur marathon become a thing?

 

[mmm_texas]

QOTD: Do you train in a certain pair of shoes and then race in another pair? If so, what do you use? I train in the Brooks Ghost and race in the Saucony Endorphin Pros Or Nike Vapor Fly. Maybe it helps or maybe I just have fooled myself into thinking it helps....

(QOTD from a few days ago….) I currently have 4 pairs of shoes in rotation, but I mainly train in the pair with the most miles and take the other pairs to the races. Occasionally I’ll train in one of the low mileage pairs, just to mix it up and make sure they’re broken in.

I’ve been using “barefoot” / minimalist shoes for about 15 years now. It’s anecdotal of course, but no injuries at all so far, so I’ll keep going with them. As I recall, there was a few months of adjustment involved, as the small foot muscles build up. My most recent pair are Xero Speed Force, which I do like.

 

[avondale]

I have cooling towels for our Disney park days (and one they gave us after Princess) so I really should get into the habit of running with them. And you're right, I won't ever need to worry about not being used to running in the heat!

There have been a lot of good suggestions on this. I really strongly suggest running for a certain length of time and let your pace be dictated by your effort level - rather than running for a certain distance. This can be hard if you're used to thinking fast is better. A good trick is to call it a "successful" run if you kept your HR in the zone you planned for, rather than if you ran "fast".

A useful trick in the heat is to wear a hydration vest that has a liquid reservoir on your back. Fill the reservoir with ice cubes first and then water to top it off, or better yet, freeze the reservoir - then you start out with a block of ice on your back. It does take a bit of practice to judge how quickly that ice will melt so that you don't end up partway through the run with all ice and no liquid.

 

[flav]

DD, Sarah, dreamt it, and she did it!
First female runner on the 10k this morning at runDisney Springtime Surprise


Thanks to all of you for making me a better coach and for all your encouragements through the years!

 

[SheHulk]

DD, Sarah, dreamt it, and she did it!
First female runner on the 10k this morning at runDisney Springtime Surprise


Thanks to all of you for making me a better coach and for all your encouragements through the years!

Congratulations to you both, that is absolutely incredible!

 

[azrivest]

DD, Sarah, dreamt it, and she did it!
First female runner on the 10k this morning at runDisney Springtime Surprise


Thanks to all of you for making me a better coach and for all your encouragements through the years!

First overall? That's amazing!

 

[flav]

First overall? That's amazing!

Yes