The return of annual passes

[Jross34]

Right if this continues through September and into October for the 50th, I think Disney will have to reconsider the price hikes.

Anyone who is saying this is just inflation and to accept it... the spreadsheet I posted earlier shows a 70% increase in price for family of 4's trip. That is not a sustainable increase. Even just looking directly at the AP price increases, they average over 20%. The worst year ever for inflation on the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 1917 at 19.66% so even 20% is really high.

For 2021, the current trailing 12 month CPI inflation rate is 5.4% certainly not small, but nothing like Disney prices!

Anyone saying this is just inflation doesnt actually understand economics.... but there are also a lot of Disney employees on this board to spin the pr as well.

I didn't say it was "just" inflation. I said inflation AND decreased capacity. If you're decreasing supply by 20% or more, as well as an increase in demand of people wanting to get out and do things, then a 20% or more increase in price is reasonable.

I have a major in economics, it's pretty basic economics that the price would increase by a lot.

 

[Liquidice]

I didn't say it was "just" inflation. I said inflation AND decreased capacity. If you're decreasing supply by 20% or more, as well as an increase in demand of people wanting to get out and do things, then a 20% or more increase in price is reasonable.

I have a major in economics, it's pretty basic economics that the price would increase by a lot.

Why is Universal able to continue with all of the same perks and similar pricing?

I'm not an economics major - but people are starting to see Universal is offering a better value and going there (look at the crowd calendars posted earlier for August).

Do you think demand will come back? If it doesn't then obviously Disney will need to do something to increase demand again - which will be more beneficial to customers.

October 1st will definitely be sold out, Park Passes tell us as much - but it remains to be seen if the rest of October will bring a return of crowds or not.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I didn't say it was "just" inflation. I said inflation AND decreased capacity. If you're decreasing supply by 20% or more, as well as an increase in demand of people wanting to get out and do things, then a 20% or more increase in price is reasonable.

I have a major in economics, it's pretty basic economics that the price would increase by a lot.

I'm not an economics major, but i know when i feel like i'm being price gouged and when its time to step away from something.

Just because you can, doesnt mean you should. for me personally, they've tarnished their brand in my house and its not what it used to be.

 

[karen4546]

Does anyone know how much the memory maker will be with renewal ? I have a Gold AP and will be renewing to the Sorcerer but on the website it says the price is "even less when you renew".

 

[Liquidice]

Does anyone know how much the memory maker will be with renewal ? I have a Gold AP and will be renewing to the Sorcerer but on the website it says the price is "even less when you renew".

That is all that has been stated, just "even less when you renew". Renewal prices are 15% less ($899 vs. $764 for the Sorcerer pass) - so maybe $84-85?

 

[KeyLargoCards]

Why is Universal able to continue with all of the same perks and similar pricing?

I'm not an economics major - but people are starting to see Universal is offering a better value and going there (look at the crowd calendars posted earlier for August).

Do you think demand will come back? If it doesn't then obviously Disney will need to do something to increase demand again - which will be more beneficial to customers.

October 1st will definitely be sold out, Park Passes tell us as much - but it remains to be seen if the rest of October will bring a return of crowds or not.

This is just my opinion...and possibly not a popular one. But after being to both parks in 2021, I can tell you why Universal is offering a better "value"....its just not as good. 3/4 of the rides are 3D, and you can get bored there pretty quickly after just 2-3 full days in the parks. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Universal, and actually celebrate some of the differences. I love staying @ Portofino and having literally everything (IoA, US, & CW) a 10 min boat ride away. It's just....not Disney. Don't know quite how to say it, but its just not.

As a DVC member, of course I don't like the price increase, but am happy about the annual passes being available again. We are planning on Food & Wine, Marathon Weekend, and Spring Break, and so will save us hundreds over just buying tix...pretty happy about that.

 

[jkh36619]

This is just my opinion...and possibly not a popular one. But after being to both parks in 2021, I can tell you why Universal is offering a better "value"....its just not as good. 3/4 of the rides are 3D, and you can get bored there pretty quickly after just 2-3 full days in the parks. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Universal, and actually celebrate some of the differences. I love staying @ Portofino and having literally everything (IoA, US, & CW) a 10 min boat ride away. It's just....not Disney. Don't know quite how to say it, but its just not.

As a DVC member, of course I don't like the price increase, but am happy about the annual passes being available again. We are planning on Food & Wine, Marathon Weekend, and Spring Break, and so will save us hundreds over just buying tix...pretty happy about that.

Same here

 

[cjlong88]

This is just my opinion...and possibly not a popular one. But after being to both parks in 2021, I can tell you why Universal is offering a better "value"....its just not as good. 3/4 of the rides are 3D, and you can get bored there pretty quickly after just 2-3 full days in the parks. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Universal, and actually celebrate some of the differences. I love staying @ Portofino and having literally everything (IoA, US, & CW) a 10 min boat ride away. It's just....not Disney. Don't know quite how to say it, but its just not.

As a DVC member, of course I don't like the price increase, but am happy about the annual passes being available again. We are planning on Food & Wine, Marathon Weekend, and Spring Break, and so will save us hundreds over just buying tix...pretty happy about that.

I went to Universal, Six Flags, Busch Gardens, San Diego Zoo, etc. as a kid. I remember enjoying all of those places just fine, but the very first time I visited WDW (I just turned 30) I was absolutely floored -- never experienced anything like it in my entire life. We ended up going to Universal at the end of that trip, and my husband and I had the same conclusion. Universal is fine, but it's not Disney. TWWoHP is incredible (and the Mummy attraction). Beyond that, meh. We still go to USO whenever we can because it's still fun, but it just doesn't resonante with us like WDW.

Just my opinion. No right or wrong answer here. But to us they don't compare.

 

[robinb]

Our daughters are 21 and 17. We have 2 trips planned in the next year, and after that ¯\(ツ)/¯. They both still love the parks, but schedules and life will no longer make regular 4-of-us vacations simple, no matter where.
Also, FWIW, my wife and I have been giving serious consideration to retiring to Orlando (not imminent, but close enough to make speculation and thought meaningful). I have to say that this on top of all the other recent changes make that at least somewhat less appealing, and somewhat more likely we sell our DVC in a few years. Nothing certain by any means, and we were never going to move to Orlando just for Disney but it is/was a factor in the mix. Lots to consider.

Our DD is 22 and the last annual pass we bought her was when she was 16. She was too involved in school and boyfriend once she went to college. We have vacationed with her three times since then, but we paid for her daily park hoppers because it was cheaper.

 

[DisFanDad]

I didn't say it was "just" inflation. I said inflation AND decreased capacity. If you're decreasing supply by 20% or more, as well as an increase in demand of people wanting to get out and do things, then a 20% or more increase in price is reasonable.

I have a major in economics, it's pretty basic economics that the price would increase by a lot.

It's quite literally, not. Decreasing supply by 20% doesn't mean there is a greater demand than supply. Doesn't mean the good or service is scarce, the thing that drives prices up. If people want 50, and you were producing 100, but drop your production to 80 .... no impact on price. In fact, heck you might be able to lower prices because you are no longer over producing, and no longer have to pass on the cost of your extra production.

You've just made up a bunch of weird stuff and then come up with 20% or more increase in price is reasonable. This is, bad economics.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yesterday was day 17 in a row of touring plan observed crowd level 1 park level. That is unheard of pre-pandemic. A lot of that is undoubtedly the delta variant, but some of that may be people starting to tell Disney something.

I don't think that's it at all. I think the revenge travel bump is over.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I don't think that's it at all. I think the revenge travel bump is over.

Then why is Universal not experiencing the same relative attendance crash? Yesterday was day 19 in a row of crowd level 1’s for WDW. In the same time period (posted upthread), UOR has experienced crowd level 2’s to crowd level 6’s and has not posted a single crowd level 1 day. The average wait time for Space Mountain yesterday was 7 minutes! Chapek is going to have a hard time getting people to pony up $24 per person for space mountain when the alternative is waiting 5 minutes…

 

[New Mouse]

I didn't say it was "just" inflation. I said inflation AND decreased capacity. If you're decreasing supply by 20% or more, as well as an increase in demand of people wanting to get out and do things, then a 20% or more increase in price is reasonable.

I have a major in economics, it's pretty basic economics that the price would increase by a lot.

But the demand isnt and has never consistently been there with full capacity and with this limited capacity. That goes for park attendance as well as this paid fastpass... how many days will this need sell out for you to justify their next price increase?

 

[Jrb1979]

Then why is Universal not experiencing the same relative attendance crash? Yesterday was day 19 in a row of crowd level 1’s for WDW. In the same time period (posted upthread), UOR has experienced crowd level 2’s to crowd level 6’s and has not posted a single crowd level 1 day. The average wait time for Space Mountain yesterday was 7 minutes! Chapek is going to have a hard time getting people to pony up $24 per person for space mountain when the alternative is waiting 5 minutes…

I have no answer. I don't think it has much to with prices yet. It could also be the lack of things back in the parks yet. Either way even it stays slow I doubt they will walk back any of this. The APs and Genie+ are here to stay. Best that will happen is they offer discounts on rooms.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I have no answer. I don't think it has much to with prices yet. It could also be the lack of things back in the parks yet. Either way even it stays slow I doubt they will walk back any of this. The APs and Genie+ are here to stay. Best that will happen is they offer discounts on rooms.

i dont think the best offer is room discounts. they'll get creative if they have to..."book your stay and receive free fast passes"

 

[Spaceguy55]

i dont think the best offer is room discounts. they'll get creative if they have to..."book your stay and receive free fast passes"

I don't think it will be that , but maybe book your room at full higher prices , then buy G+ at full price then you may book your rides at the 60 day mark...hmmm..why does that seem familar.

 

[Jrb1979]

i dont think the best offer is room discounts. they'll get creative if they have to..."book your stay and receive free fast passes"

They will give free dining before they give out Genie+ for free. I just can't see them giving it for free again this soon after announcing it. Also by doing that, it creates the same problem as before. Too many people will have it and everything will booked by mid afternoon.

As far as APs going up in price and perks being taken away. That's the point. They would rather people pay full price when they stay on site.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't think it will be that , but maybe book your room at full higher prices , then buy G+ at full price then you may book your rides at the 60 day mark...hmmm..why does that seem familar.

Advanced booking is not coming back. It's wishful thinking. Personally I hope it never comes back. I love Genie+ cause it works for how I visit parks.

 

[cakebaker]

Then why is Universal not experiencing the same relative attendance crash? Yesterday was day 19 in a row of crowd level 1’s for WDW. In the same time period (posted upthread), UOR has experienced crowd level 2’s to crowd level 6’s and has not posted a single crowd level 1 day. The average wait time for Space Mountain yesterday was 7 minutes! Chapek is going to have a hard time getting people to pony up $24 per person for space mountain when the alternative is waiting 5 minutes…

Universal is not nearly as dependent on destination guests as WDW is. So when out of state guests slow down, it hits Disney harder. As I understand it, Universal never stopped their AP sales while Disney did.

I think the super low attendance right now is due to several factors- 1) Conditions in Florida 2) Disney's refusal to return to normal operations 3) Seasonal dips and 4) Revenge travel may have hit it's peak and for those who waited to travel until things were better, they no longer see things improving. If you hadn't already got it out of your system, conditions are such that if you had waited until you felt it was, that window closed.

While I usually am an out of state AP holder, I'm in the minority. Most out of state guests do not buy AP's so this latest price increase won't affect them outside of DVC- and those people aren't exactly free to just immediately quit going. I don't think pricing has a lot to do with it. As for me personally, what stops me in my tracks are the conditions in Florida. But even if this was all over we still wouldn't return. I got the revenge travel in and now Disney not bringing back all the things they cut back on parades, shows etc. will keep us away.

 

[ChipnDale79]

They will give free dining before they give out Genie+ for free. I just can't see them giving it for free again this soon after announcing it. Also by doing that, it creates the same problem as before. Too many people will have it and everything will booked by mid afternoon.

As far as APs going up in price and perks being taken away. That's the point. They would rather people pay full price when they stay on site.

i agree about the dining.

im sure they want people to pay full price and stay on site, but im curious if they're going to be able to pull that off. There has to be a reason to stay onsite for me, and the reason isnt "because its a disney hotel".

Disney has to find a way to win me back. a small discount on a room isnt going to be what it takes.