The Problem Seems to be...

I'm perfectly fine with FP+ and I hardly ever used FP- before, so...

Not everyone tours the same way you do. If it works for them, it works for them. It's not a bad thing.

We hardly ever used FP-. We get to the park at rope drop, ride what we want once and leave. Rides are not the primary reason we go to WDW. We love the restaurants, resorts, pools, and atmosphere. We are just not a big ride family. We used FP+ in September, and it was great. I'm not sure how we are going to feel about the system now. If it makes the lines longer I'm probably going to hate it. We have AP's at Universal, and we were not planning on going to WDW this year. We got a great deal at the BC in August so we are going to give the new system a try.

I do feel bad for the commando people that like to ride things multiple times. Obviously the new system sucks for them. I thought the old system worked well for everyone. The commandos, and the one and done like my family.
 
The main complaint of a system can't be that they didn't do enough testing and it was rolled out too soon before testing is even complete, a roll out date is announced and what the details of that rollout will be.

This is akin to Microsoft upgrading everyone's Windows version for them, and claiming it's a Beta test, but no, you can't downgrade to your old Windows version, you're stuck with this version.

Software companies do Beta testing to fix problems BEFORE they roll out to Production.

So if we put Disney's FP+ into this, we're talking about a system that's being Beta tested in what's really Production.....not a good combination.
 
I guess we all must have missed that memo.

Just like the guests at PoP missed that MB-only memo....

And just like we all missed that AK going FP+ only memo.....

Just like.......

Sorry, I'm confused. Can you clarify what you mean?

This is akin to Microsoft upgrading everyone's Windows version for them, and claiming it's a Beta test, but no, you can't downgrade to your old Windows version, you're stuck with this version.

Software companies do Beta testing to fix problems BEFORE they roll out to Production.

And Disney did testing to their software as well. Disney allowed people to access FP+ and FP- for months. And for months Disney and everyone with any knowledge of the situation knew at some point, FP- was going away. It is just another phase of testing......Like tiering.

Things will change again, as testing continues. Whether that means the disappearance of tiering or more tiering, things will change. As each change comes about, it brings the ability to test the system under different variables.

As of now, you don't have to get any FP+. You do not have to participate in the testing if you choose not to. RFID cards can be used in place of Magic Bands if you prefer.

The RFID conversion and testing phase began over a year ago and people are complaining not enough testing was done. If Disney had announced last January that on a random day in May of 2014, everyone would be forced to stop using FP-, could not use KTTW cards, had the ability to make FP+ 60 days out and that in some parks FP+ would be subject to tiering, then on that day all the changes went into effect without any live testing, people would have lost their Magical Minds!.

The bonus to the extended testing through every season of the year is that it weens people off of the old system and it gives guests the opportunity to become familiar with what is and what will be. If people want to focus on what was, that's up to them.

The system won't be perfect for anyone, but either was the old system. Those that will benefit the most from FP+ are rope droppers, who travel in low crowd seasons, that were not very FP- dependent who like to plan ADRs well in advance and have the ability and are willing to adapt.

Those who travel during the summer or during holidays that toured heavily on FP- frequently involving FP- runners (that may or may not meet their party in another line) that do alot of character breakfasts or sleep in and didn't schedule ADRs 180+ days out and do not plan in advance will benefit the least.
 
Sorry, I'm confused. Can you clarify what you mean?



And Disney did testing to their software as well. Disney allowed people to access FP+ and FP- for months. And for months Disney and everyone with any knowledge of the situation knew at some point, FP- was going away. It is just another phase of testing......Like tiering.

Things will change again, as testing continues. Whether that means the disappearance of tiering or more tiering, things will change. As each change comes about, it brings the ability to test the system under different variables.

As of now, you don't have to get any FP+. You do not have to participate in the testing if you choose not to. RFID cards can be used in place of Magic Bands if you prefer.

The RFID conversion and testing phase began over a year ago and people are complaining not enough testing was done. If Disney had announced last January that on a random day in May of 2014, everyone would be forced to stop using FP-, could not use KTTW cards, had the ability to make FP+ 60 days out and that in some parks FP+ would be subject to tiering, then on that day all the changes went into effect without any live testing, people would have lost their Magical Minds!.

The bonus to the extended testing through every season of the year is that it weens people off of the old system and it gives guests the opportunity to become familiar with what is and what will be. If people want to focus on what was, that's up to them.

The system won't be perfect for anyone, but either was the old system. Those that will benefit the most from FP+ are rope droppers, who travel in low crowd seasons, that were not very FP- dependent who like to plan ADRs well in advance and have the ability and are willing to adapt.

Those who travel during the summer or during holidays that toured heavily on FP- frequently involving FP- runners (that may or may not meet their party in another line) that do alot of character breakfasts or sleep in and didn't schedule ADRs 180+ days out and do not plan in advance will benefit the least.
Pretty easy to clarify. The system is and has been in production- by any definition, when 100% of the end users on on a system and have no other means for completing their tasks, a system is in production. It's that simple.

They've known exactly when they were going to roll out each part of it but decided not to let anyone know so they could make a decision on the trip they were spending thousand of dollars on. Disney's prerogative, but not much fun for those guests.

Continuing to call it a test is just a marketing smokescreen for all of the bugs and issues folks are having to deal with.
 

I'm glad you have an open mind about it OP.

I used the system in December for a five day trip and liked it. And I was a person(Family) that used FP to their full extent previously. When people complain about only getting three fastpasses and the tiering system, I wonder are they only doing one park each during their trips? On our trip we got FP for MK two days, DHS two days, and Epcot one day. If you do it that way, you can either spread out your FP to six rides or redo favorites on your second day (which we did for TSSM and ToT, and BTMRR and Space Mtn). And if we really wanted to redo a ride on the same day we used FP, we could stand in line and do it.
 
Pretty easy to clarify. The system is and has been in production- by any definition, when 100% of the end users on on a system and have no other means for completing their tasks, a system is in production. It's that simple.

There are still different means. For example, AP holders. This is why restaurants have friends and family events before soft openings, then a Grand Opening some time later. What Disney is doing is the textbook definition of Beta Testing.

Second level, external pilot-test of a product (usually a software) before commercial quantity production. At the beta test stage, the product has already passed through the first-level, internal pilot-test (alpha test) and glaring defects have been removed. But (since the product may still have some minor problems that require user participation) it is released to selected customers for testing under normal, everyday conditions of use to spot the remaining flaws.

a quality-control technique in which hardware or software is subjected to trial in the environment for which it was designed, usually after debugging by the manufacturer and immediately prior to marketing.

a field test of the beta version of a product (as software) especially by testers outside the company developing it that is conducted prior to commercial release

What people are experiencing now is not what the system will be. There will be additional changes and those changes will be tested. At some point, when they announce a "roll out" clearer details of exactly how FP+ will work will be laid out. At that point, each AP holder will have the same opportunity to access FP+ and so on.

They've known exactly when they were going to roll out each part of it but decided not to let anyone know so they could make a decision on the trip they were spending thousand of dollars on. Disney's prerogative, but not much fun for those guests.

Anyone who is aware of the changes to MDE and FP+ should have known for over a year that changes were possible for their stay. People have been saying it here, other forums and on blogs for that long. The details given for each question and issue are of that day, but things can change without notice. Fun, no not exactly. I was there midweek when they pulled FP- from Magic Kingdom (1/10 - 1/18) so I am well aware of the changes that can take place. I was also well aware that during testing, other changes were also possible.

Continuing to call it a test is just a marketing smokescreen for all of the bugs and issues folks are having to deal with.

The issues people are dealing with are rarely related to bugs. Most of peoples issues are because they have to adjust from 8 FP- a day to 3. Or, now they have to plan 60 days out and before they didn't. Or, if they want to do TSM more than three times in a day, they have to be there early. Those aren't bugs, it's an unwillingness to adapt.

Yes, the system has bugs and glitches and it always will, but those bugs and glitches isn't what is causing all the backlash.

Disney is calling it a test, and the reason it needs to be considered a test, is because if you call it "live" or "rolled out" you need to provide details as to what the system is and how it works. And as you eluded to, Disney hasn't and doesn't want to do it. If they announce now, that in 4 months FP+ will go from 3 per day (and no park hopping) to 5 per day with park hopping options, how many people will opt out of their possible vacation in early June for something later in July?

The reason it is still in testing can be debated, but it can't be debated that the system is indeed still in testing.
 
T What Disney is doing is the textbook definition of Beta Testing.

Second level, external pilot-test of a product (usually a software) before commercial quantity production. At the beta test stage, the product has already passed through the first-level, internal pilot-test (alpha test) and glaring defects have been removed. But (since the product may still have some minor problems that require user participation) it is released to selected customers for testing under normal, everyday conditions of use to spot the remaining flaws.


The reason it is still in testing can be debated, but it can't be debated that the system is indeed still in testing.

I think you just disproved your case: See the above underlined which is:

Seems like everybody is not selected group, don't you think?

Since you're into copy and paste: I'll add another one: easy for everyone to find on Wiki:

The users of a beta version are called beta testers. They are usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software, willing to test the software without charge, often receiving the final software free of charge or for a reduced price. Beta version software is often useful for demonstrations and previews within an organization and to prospective customers. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, prototype, technical preview (TP), or early access.
 
Seems like everybody is not selected group, don't you think?

No, see previous example for Annual Passholders. Only some are being invited to participate in testing.

It isn't everybody and being that the system currently in testing is not the system that will be in operation once rolled out, your everybody is closer to nobody because not one person in the general public has tested what the system will actually be.

Right now, we are in a phase of the testing. As we get closer to a roll out, we will move closer to what the system will actually be. At some point, testing will begin on what the actual system will be and at that point, you can consider it a "soft opening" or "roll out".

Again, go back to the restaurant example and friends & family night. You will see things like an abbreviated menu or rules like each person has to order a different entree. In testing, you need to do things to simulate different variables, so you "steer" guests to one decision or another. That's testing. That's what we're going through right now.

When the system is live, fully operational, people are making their own choices with all options open to them, we can revisit.

Testing has been going on for a year and any gripes that testing wasn't long enough before testing is even complete is unjust.
 
No, see previous example for Annual Passholders. Only some are being invited to participate in testing.

It isn't everybody and being that the system currently in testing is not the system that will be in operation once rolled out, your everybody is closer to nobody because not one person in the general public has tested what the system will actually be.

Right now, we are in a phase of the testing. As we get closer to a roll out, we will move closer to what the system will actually be. At some point, testing will begin on what the actual system will be and at that point, you can consider it a "soft opening" or "roll out".

Again, go back to the restaurant example and friends & family night. You will see things like an abbreviated menu or rules like each person has to order a different entree. In testing, you need to do things to simulate different variables, so you "steer" guests to one decision or another. That's testing. That's what we're going through right now.

When the system is live, fully operational, people are making their own choices with all options open to them, we can revisit.

Testing has been going on for a year and any gripes that testing wasn't long enough before testing is even complete is unjust.

Oh, so AP Holders can get FP's some other way besides already using MDE for reservations because of a previous stay or using the kiosks? They can interact with Disney in some other way besides using MDE?

What is this "new functionality" you're talking about besides every bit of MM+ that's in production for 100% of guests interacting with TDO?

Are AP Holders and offsiters going to get a lap band instead of a wrist band? Is there another MDE out there?

Every part of MM+ is in production. Deciding to go from 3 FP reservations to 2 or 10, giving Deluxe more FP's than Value, allowing off-site 45 days advance reservations versus 60 for on-site: those are just clicks on a dialogue box or 30 second parameter changes to a system already in production.
 
Every part of MM+ is in production.

The term in production means that the software has been fully tested and is ready for a business environment. It refers to the final stages of development and we just simply aren't there yet.

Until the system is fully tested to it's true intentions, testing will go on. Ability to do something does not equate to actually doing it.
 
Personally I think they should drop adv booking for everyone. Give us all same day booking. At the risk of being accused of practicing mathcraft :teacher:, I just can't see how they can allocate enough FP for everyone to be happy, especially if they open it up to offsite. Being able to pick your ride times same day is still pretty cool and maybe they can manage it so there are enough to tweak the 3 day/1 park/1 tier 1 restrictions.

At the end of the day its only 3 lines and really only 1 or 2 at 3 of the parks. We are going to be in a whole lot more SB lines. I would much rather loose Adv. booking than see SB lines dble or triple because people think they have to book FP because they have one.

$.02
 
The term in production means that the software has been fully tested and is ready for a business environment. It refers to the final stages of development and we just simply aren't there yet.

Until the system is fully tested to it's true intentions, testing will go on. Ability to do something does not equate to actually doing it.

Okay let's re-cap

The system can't be called Beta because:

  • All components are in production
  • Users are paying to use the system
  • There is no other system for them to complete their tasks

You are confusing Disney's ability to change production parameters (i.e., number of FP's allowed, or tiering of guest types) with "system testing". Those are business decisions - not software changes or enhancements. Two very different things.
 
I think OP was trying to say that it is too fast because clearly last weekend was a failure. It seem like they were not organized at all. DME has too many problems still. I think OP didn't meant it as the time frame but that things are not ready to be fully operational, because they still have too many issues.

Thank you Ellie! That is EXACTLY what I was saying. Don't put commercials on the air advertising the Magic Bands and FP+ if it is still in a "testing" period. All of this testing should have been done more under the radar than as a big advertisement.
 
I'm glad you have an open mind about it OP.

I used the system in December for a five day trip and liked it. And I was a person(Family) that used FP to their full extent previously. When people complain about only getting three fastpasses and the tiering system, I wonder are they only doing one park each during their trips? On our trip we got FP for MK two days, DHS two days, and Epcot one day. If you do it that way, you can either spread out your FP to six rides or redo favorites on your second day (which we did for TSSM and ToT, and BTMRR and Space Mtn). And if we really wanted to redo a ride on the same day we used FP, we could stand in line and do it.

My husband and I plan on sleeping in everyday of our week long WDW vacation (except when AK has am EMH). I have all of our FP+ reservations for the afternoons. I have an open mind, because I think this will work for us. We have never been rope drop people, yet I will get to ride my favorite attractions anyway, because they are reserved. To me, there's much more to the parks than the rides.
Bottom line, Disney shouldn't have advertised a system that is still in a "testing" phase. There are way too many kinks and complaints. Too much marketing has been done for a program that is just being "tested.":confused3
 


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