The PGA Tour VS. The LIV Tour

[sam_gordon]

The PGA Tour is open, your talent is the only deciding factor whether you play or not. PGA tournaments every week have a Monday qualifying to give any one a chance to play.

The LIV Tour is Greg Norman's 'Chosen 48', you don't even have to be good enough to compete, if Greg thinks your name will advance LIV golf, you get to be included.

So, you can be a top level golfer sitting on the sidelines watching players on the LIV Tour shoot 25 over par for the tournaments and win a guaranteed $110,000

Thanks. So it's a "pride" thing. If you want the guaranteed money, go to the LIV Tour. If you want to prove yourself, stay with PGA?

Me? I'd take the guaranteed money every time.

 

[bcla]

I don't even think I get The CW on my streaming service (YouTube TV).

I watch a handful of golf events here and there, often just in the background as I'm doing other things. I certainly won't be searching out the LIV ones.

CW is only broadcast channels and their scheduled programming is only available as part of a broadcast channel that would include local commercials. So it would depend on whether or not you're getting your local broadcast channels as part of your package. I suppose it might be possible there's no CW channel in your area.

I don't really watch CW for much other than The Flash. But I could watch that on their app or on demand since my local channel is part of my Comcast package. However, I've seen their ads for LIV Golf. Not interested.

 

[bcla]

Thanks. So it's a "pride" thing. If you want the guaranteed money, go to the LIV Tour. If you want to prove yourself, stay with PGA?

Me? I'd take the guaranteed money every time.

Their biggest get is Phil Mickelson. There are rumors that he did it because he has massive gambling debts that he needs to pay off.

They had to pay him a boatload - a rumor of a 9 figure signing bonus. But he's since lost so many endorsement deals.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/i...-mickelson-wake-golfer-controversial-comments

 

[goofyernmost]

The PGA Tour is open, your talent is the only deciding factor whether you play or not. PGA tournaments every week have a Monday qualifying to give any one a chance to play.

The LIV Tour is Greg Norman's 'Chosen 48', you don't even have to be good enough to compete, if Greg thinks your name will advance LIV golf, you get to be included.

So, you can be a top level golfer sitting on the sidelines watching players on the LIV Tour shoot 25 over par for the tournaments and win a guaranteed $110,000

Least we forget that they offered Tiger Woods almost one billion dollars to join LIV and he has only played about 4 tournaments poorly in the last 4 years. He was asked to sell his name and in spite of his many other faults at least was smart enough to know that the only way out of that arrangement was from a top floor window. You do the math.

 

[GAN]

As I understand it, the monopoly PGA is feeling threatened by this new league, even though they are highly profitable with solid TV and endorsements in place. And I don’t believe the livelihood of any current PGA player is in jeopardy. In fact, the PGA increased purses to keep players there (and there’s presumably less competition now to win money). So why do privileged multimillionaires like McIlroy care if others want to try this new way and have guaranteed income? He’s still getting paid. It seems like it’s just jealousy or insecurity.

I think it’s more than that …any athlete at that level wants to compete against the best -so if a few top tier players leave for the cash only, they’re also walking away from top matchups. Which affects everyone in the sport.

 

[WEDWDW]

Well this site doesn't let you discuss politics (or religion) so most are avoiding comments about that. G. Norman seems to have some ax to grind with the PGA Tour over what exactly isn't clear to most people. Have ZERO interest in LIV and the majority of their golfers are either past their prime or ones not particularly well liked by their fellow pros and they all seem to be looking to make some guaranteed money. On all of the other major tours, you have to make the cut or you don't cash a check. That tends to weed out golfers who want to make a career as a touring pro but aren't good enough to compete with the best in the world. Whether or not you can view it on a lesser known TV network won't change who follows it. This endeavor will last until the source of money dries up. They are a money losing venture at this time.

After watching about 30 seconds of their product yesterday could not agree more!

I think Mickelson has ruined his image for the vast majority of Golf fans.

And Phil,unless it is mandatory for you to wear shorts on your innovative Tour,I would reconsider that look!lol

 

[_19disnA]

Mickelson always liked to talk like the smartest person in the room. Past several years he has struck me as someone who had gotten good at saying what he thinks the media wants to hear regardless of whether or not it is true. He has also changed his story several times about why he joined LIV. His best years on the PGA tour are behind him, so taking the money and run is a more likely explanation of what he and several others did.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Their biggest get is Phil Mickelson. There are rumors that he did it because he has massive gambling debts that he needs to pay off.

They had to pay him a boatload - a rumor of a 9 figure signing bonus. But he's since lost so many endorsement deals.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/i...-mickelson-wake-golfer-controversial-comments

I don't know if he is their biggest get.

DJ, Cam, a lot of other top names.
Phil was gonna be pressed to make a top 5 again.

 

[pens4821]

I haven’t watched any of it yet but would watch both. I actually like a lot of the players that moved to LIV so that’d make me want to watch it.

 

[john7994]

Not clear on the intent of the OP's question, but I have no particular issue with disruptive models entering the marketplace in any entertainment venue. Not concerned with the player's intentions in this particular example either way as I think grown adults can make their own decisions. Whether this proves out to be a long-term offering or not is another thing ... but in terms of being disruptive to the legacy platform ... it seems to be working to a limited degree.

 

[monsterkitty]

Their biggest get is Phil Mickelson. There are rumors that he did it because he has massive gambling debts that he needs to pay off.

They had to pay him a boatload - a rumor of a 9 figure signing bonus. But he's since lost so many endorsement deals.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/i...-mickelson-wake-golfer-controversial-comments

One of Phil Mickelson's beef with the PGA is that he didn't have full control over his likeness in advertising or any other similar aspect with the PGA contracts. However, the LIV contract is worse. They can't even do interviews without the consent of the LIV.

The Judge Beth Freeman, who is overseeing the case between the PGA and LIV stated that, "The contracts lock up these players in ways that the PGA Tour never imagined. They are so restrictive."

John Nucci has a good article on the subject:
https://www.conductdetrimental.com/...ajor-decisions-is-a-settlement-on-the-horizon

I follow Nucci on Twitter and he has an interesting thread there as well.

 

[bcla]

I don't know if he is their biggest get.

DJ, Cam, a lot of other top names.
Phil was gonna be pressed to make a top 5 again.

Not in terms of current talent level, but certainly in terms of name recognition. Tiger Woods would have been even bigger.

 

[goofyernmost]

Not clear on the intent of the OP's question, but I have no particular issue with disruptive models entering the marketplace in any entertainment venue. Not concerned with the player's intentions in this particular example either way as I think grown adults can make their own decisions. Whether this proves out to be a long-term offering or not is another thing ... but in terms of being disruptive to the legacy platform ... it seems to be working to a limited degree.

OK, and as an adult I made my decision that they are all a money grabbing bunch of rich people lacking in any moral fiber or integrity. They are also entitled people that now work for a government that murders anyone that disagrees with them. Want to guess the only way out of that organization? I chose not to support them because of that. Also because there is nothing about golf that is important enough to support people that I find repulsive. My choice!

 

[goofyernmost]

Thanks. So it's a "pride" thing. If you want the guaranteed money, go to the LIV Tour. If you want to prove yourself, stay with PGA?

Me? I'd take the guaranteed money every time.

Which is fine, just don't expect to be invited back to your X-employer and take money away from struggling pros just trying to make a living and also belong to an organization with a purpose and a history where a legacy can be built. LIV only supplies horrific amounts of cash to people that are already multi-millionaires. As much as others like to think they are people worthy of my respect I just cannot bring myself to support cash motivated, greedy people. There are a number of players that I once really enjoyed watching play and thought a lot of, but they lost me. I'm sure they don't care, but I do.

 

[john7994]

OK, and as an adult I made my decision that they are all a money grabbing bunch of rich people lacking in any moral fiber or integrity. They are also entitled people that now work for a government that murders anyone that disagrees with them. Want to guess the only way out of that organization? I chose not to support them because of that. Also because there is nothing about golf that is important enough to support people that I find repulsive. My choice!

Can't really respond to any of that as the boards prohibit those types of discussions.

But for clarity, I was responding to the OP (as I clearly stated) on the product itself and the player's ability to make their own decisions - it's their consequence not mine. While I would love to embrace the ideal of professional sports entertainment as something more than as a business motivated by money - that's way back in the rear view mirror for me at this point.

 

[_19disnA]

Well in the case of LIV, you can't separate the back-story from all of the rest so to only look at one aspect in a vacuum isn't the whole story. However, as others have mentioned, this site doesn't allow those types of discussions so we can't get into any of those details.

 

[MillauFr]

I have a huge problem with how LIV was formed.

It is an irrational business model with unlimited financing by a foreign government.

It just doesn't scream fair. A Saudi Prince in conjunction with "Table for one", Greg Norman, wakes up one day and decides he wants to take over professional golf. Their plan is to throw billions of government money at golf without any chance of ever being profitable.

I guess you just need to be happy they didn't decide to try to take over the market of the company you work for?

Who cares if a foreign government is paying for it? That is far better than professional football, baseball, hockey, and basketball where US taxpayers are paying for stadiums for billionaire owners.

 

[goofyernmost]

Can't really respond to any of that as the boards prohibit those types of discussions.

But for clarity, I was responding to the OP (as I clearly stated) on the product itself and the player's ability to make their own decisions - it's their consequence not mine. While I would love to embrace the ideal of professional sports entertainment as something more than as a business motivated by money - that's way back in the rear view mirror for me at this point.

Well, it is part of doing the right thing for me at this point. You are entitled to your opinion, just be aware of what your supporting the idea means to many suppressed human beings. If you are OK with that, than that is indeed your business. It just wouldn't be me! I cannot separate the product from the source.

 

[Robber Baron]

You are entitled to your opinion, just be aware of what your supporting the idea means to many suppressed human beings.

For me, the moral high ground isn't really an issue.

I'm of the opinion that if we did a deep dive from a high horse on all the companies we purchase from, we'd all be naked and hungry.

The PGA also has Saudi sponsorship.

 

[goofyernmost]

For me, the moral high ground isn't really an issue.

I'm of the opinion that if we did a deep dive from a high horse on all the companies we purchase from, we'd all be naked and hungry.

The PGA also has Saudi sponsorship.

Apple to Apples please. I'm not sure what part of sponsorship you are talking about, but even if it exists it isn't the same thing. Also when it comes to other companies we purchase from isn't the same as watching a bunch of salaried professionals playing a weekend casual team event that no one is profiting from other then those already millionaires. It is a high road that is important here and if it isn't taken then it is just a sign of the lack of morality we have been showing for a few years now. You want to be part of that, that is up to you. I don't have to live within you. I do have to live within myself and I will not support it. Ever!