The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[RadioNate]

Last night was a "answer" episode. I think it is funny that we as viewers beg for answers. Re-explain the time travel, what happened to Aaron, what did Sawyer tell Kate, etc etc and then we find out ALL that stuff and people don't like the episode.

It is like Nikki and Paulo. All first season people wondered about the 'red shirts' and then we meet them and hate them.

I think Miles should have walked over their graves and told the Losties of their fate.

 

[beattyfamily]

I'm surprised no one is discussing the Juliet, Sawyer, Jack, Kate love 'square' and what last night's show meant for it?? Is Sawyer completely over Kate and staying with Juliet? Was he basically telling Kate that last night when he said he was "doing for her" meaning saving Ben for Juliet? Or was Cassidy saying that Sawyer must have really loved Kate when they discussed the helicopter incident? And what about the confrontation in the shower between Juliet and Jack? Was she trying to get him to say he came back for her? Did seeing him again bring up some emotions she hadn't thought about in awhile?

Also, what do you think of that woman who was walking toward the exit with Aaron in the store? Who was she and what was up with the eye contact between her and Kate? She looked a lot like an older Claire. I'm going to look for a photo of her.

I think Aaron is a BIG part of all of this and I'm sure we haven't see the last of him.

I love this show and I can't wait to see how it all turns out.

 

[karajeboo]

Also, what do you think of that woman who was walking toward the exit with Aaron in the store? Who was she and what was up with the eye contact between her and Kate? She looked a lot like an older Claire. I'm going to look for a photo of her.

When I saw this, I thought the same thing. And didn't it look like she was planning on walking right out of the store with Aaron??? I do think there was something more to that.

I don't know - I know a lot of people like Sawyer with Juliet, but I kinda liked the Sawyer/Kate thing. I just don't like Jack with anyone. He annoys the ever living out of me!

We have less than a seaon and a half left - I think our minds are gonna start blowing here pretty soon because there is sooooo much left to tell!

 

[debraW76]

When the Hostiles brought Sawyer and Kate to Richard, the Hostiles asked Richard "What about Ellie and Charles" (or maybe they said Widmore). Richard replied that he doesn't answer to them. Hmmm......Is Widmore in charge of the Hostiles already?

And I posted this over on the spoiler thread:

I really appreciated that the writers had Miles explain the "what happened, happened" theory to Hurley so that the rest of us might better understand it. I'm still a little fuzzy on things, but it's getting a little clearer now. (Yes, folks, it looks like I'm coming over to the "Dark Side" with you finally!)
haha, we finally converted you. Now wouldn't it be funny if we were wrong in the end afterall!!
What's important to note is that Miles told Hurley that they can be killed (Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, etc) because they're from the future, but if somebody in 1977 (i.e., Ben) is supposed to be alive in the future, then he won't die in 1977.
yes, and the converse would be true also. If someone was suppose to die (i.e. Roger, Horace, everyone in the purge) then they will still die. that cannot be changed
It'll be interesting to see what happens to young Ben now. Will Richard patch him up and send him back to the Dharma folks? Remember when the Others/Hostiles gassed the DI, Ben was wearing a Dharma jumpsuit when he got in the van with his dad and killed him. Unless THIS is something in the past that CAN be changed without affecting the future?? In the "original" purge, Ben was still part of Dharma when he helped kill them off. But in the "altered" purge, Ben came in as one of the Others/Hostiles to kill them off. The circumstances differed, but the outcome was the same: Dharma was wiped out.

Am I getting better at understanding the "what happened, happened" thing?

Yes, Ben was still a part of Dharma, but he was working with the others all along. As soon as the purge was over Richard told him that they [the others] were waiting for his instructions and whatever Ben told them to do they would follow him.

Finally the whole time travel thing is clicking for me. Thank goodness for Hurley and all his confusion and questions.

I also caught the Ellie and Widmore reference ( I think they said Charles). This got me thinking that maybe Daniel and Penny are brother and sister. What do you guys think?

Hmmmm. Interesting.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

When Sawyer called Kate "Freckles" last night, I really felt like he wasn't completely over her.

 

[debraW76]

RA said that Ben would be different - Ben would always be one of them if he was healed. He also said Ben would loose his innosense.

THEN RA TOOK BEN TO THE TEMPLE

I am assuming that this is how he was healed and became one of them

Remember Roussou's team? They were drug to the temple by our friend, smokey. And Roussou said they were changed, they were sick.

Since I am rewatching season 1 this is fresh to me. But Locke also encountered smokey in the episode "walkabout". We didn't see what happened, but we know that smokey was face to face with Locke. Later he told Jack that he looked into the eye of the island and what he saw was beautiful.

I am thinking that Locke was 'changed' by his encounter with smokey. The same way that Roussou said her team was changed. The same way RA told us that Ben would be changed. Here is my proof:

Right after that Locke attached Sayid when he was trying to triangulate the distress signal to see where it was coming from.
THen he blew up the submarine.
Then he tried everything in his power to NOT let anyone leave the island. As if he was working 'for' the island.

What do you think?

 

[lg3]

I don't know - I know a lot of people like Sawyer with Juliet, but I kinda liked the Sawyer/Kate thing. I just don't like Jack with anyone. He annoys the ever living out of me!

I also like Sawyer and Kate, but am a big Jack fan. I think he just needs to relax more (ha!) I would like to see him in a big romance with someone, perhaps Juliet, but think he will always be hung up on Kate.

 

[Amy]

Ya I don't think they'll do that, the actors won't age enough in that time span. My guess is that Sun is going to somehow bring them back to the present maybe with Lock. Maybe part of Ben's judgement next week will be to sacrifice himself for them or something.

BEN will sacrifice himself for them??? What have you been drinking? Ben is only interested in himself - there is no way I can see him EVER thinking of someone else.

RA said that Ben would be different - Ben would always be one of them if he was healed. He also said Ben would loose his innosense.

THEN RA TOOK BEN TO THE TEMPLE

I am assuming that this is how he was healed and became one of them

Remember Roussou's team? They were drug to the temple by our friend, smokey. And Roussou said they were changed, they were sick.

Since I am rewatching season 1 this is fresh to me. But Locke also encountered smokey in the episode "walkabout". We didn't see what happened, but we know that smokey was face to face with Locke. Later he told Jack that he looked into the eye of the island and what he saw was beautiful.

I am thinking that Locke was 'changed' by his encounter with smokey. The same way that Roussou said her team was changed. The same way RA told us that Ben would be changed. Here is my proof:

Right after that Locke attached Sayid when he was trying to triangulate the distress signal to see where it was coming from.
THen he blew up the submarine.
Then he tried everything in his power to NOT let anyone leave the island. As if he was working 'for' the island.

What do you think?

I think you're on to something there with smokey and the temple. Right now, Ben is still a kid, but he's not evil. Yet. From Roger's conversation with Kate, he was regretting the kind of father he was, so maybe Roger would have changed. I'm sure with some love, young Ben might have turned out ok. But whatever happens to him in the temple might be the thing that turns him into the evil grown-up Ben we love to hate.

 

[harleyquinn]

I was not impressed with this episode.

I did like Hurley's time travel discussion though. I think that Hurley is supposed to be the voice of the viewers. He seems to know everything about anything and is the one who always asks the questions we're wondering about.

Not this viewer. I got to have Miles speak for me--the most obnoxious of the bunch! lol This episode was heavy on the what are the Internet fans talking about--seems like they do one every season, but this one had me looking for camera's and computer viruses!! lol

I loved the last bit where Hugo says, "then why doesn't old Ben remember us in the future?" and Miles was stumped. I thought it was that he DID remember--hence all of his "you are a killer comments to Sayid," but they fixed that will the mysterious temple and Richard. So if anyone is still thinking that the rules will be broken, I think we can safely say they will not.

There was something else in the episode that was a TOTAL internet fan thing...but I can't think of it right now.

I am thinking that Locke was 'changed' by his encounter with smokey. The same way that Roussou said her team was changed. The same way RA told us that Ben would be changed. Here is my proof:

Right after that Locke attached Sayid when he was trying to triangulate the distress signal to see where it was coming from.
THen he blew up the submarine.
Then he tried everything in his power to NOT let anyone leave the island. As if he was working 'for' the island.

What do you think?

I'm not sure that Danielle's team was drug to the same temple, but that doesn't matter. I think Smokey is an extension of the mystic force on the island (tied into Jacob/Christian/the visions of "dead" people) and that Richard's group were from the Black Rock, and they found the temple and were changed by it. Maybe the cabin is just an extension of the temple?

I definitely think John was changed by his experiences with Smokey, but also with his visit to the cabin and his experiences with Boone. There was a lot that went into making John who he is now. But he's definitely working for the island.


Okay now my thing--next week's episode preview!!! It looks to be AWESOME. DH caught that at two points during the preview we are actually watching Ben on the dock where we later see him make the bloody phone call to Jack to go get Locke's body--he's holding a gun and saying, "Not. Another. Word" SO I think we're going to get some Penny/Des answers! Yay!
And I can't wait to see Ben's Indiana Jones impersonation!

 

[harleyquinn]

I think you're on to something there with smokey and the temple. Right now, Ben is still a kid, but he's not evil. Yet. From Roger's conversation with Kate, he was regretting the kind of father he was, so maybe Roger would have changed. I'm sure with some love, young Ben might have turned out ok. But whatever happens to him in the temple might be the thing that turns him into the evil grown-up Ben we love to hate.

Yeah! And our precious Losties are the ones that did it to him!! Which I've been saying for weeks now!

I also think "The Incident" will bring the Losties back to the future (hehe) and they won't be around for the purge. And next season will start with everyone back in 2007.

 

[TheZue]

Okay now my thing--next week's episode preview!!! It looks to be AWESOME. DH caught that at two points during the preview we are actually watching Ben on the dock where we later see him make the bloody phone call to Jack to go get Locke's body--he's holding a gun and saying, "Not. Another. Word" SO I think we're going to get some Penny/Des answers! Yay!
And I can't wait to see Ben's Indiana Jones impersonation!

I agree, FINALLY we get to see what happened on that dock. I'm also betting it was a Penny Des issue.

I also felt that Miles was speaking for me, but given who was there I'm not sure who else would have spoken for the science fiction geeks They pretty much HAD to do this at some point though, I think Lost attracted a lot of fans before it was evident that it really was going to be a science fiction show so you have people who aren't familiar with the genre.

 

[karajeboo]

I think you're on to something there with smokey and the temple. Right now, Ben is still a kid, but he's not evil. Yet. From Roger's conversation with Kate, he was regretting the kind of father he was, so maybe Roger would have changed. I'm sure with some love, young Ben might have turned out ok. But whatever happens to him in the temple might be the thing that turns him into the evil grown-up Ben we love to hate.

And Ben will never know the kind of father that he could have had, IF Roger had changed. So Sayid shooting Ben COULD have made Ben a better person if Jack had saved him and Roger had become a good father. But Sayid shooting him, forced Jack to say no way, then he ended up with Richard and that's that. So Ben will always remember his father as the terrible father he was before the shooting.

Any anyway you look at it, Jack and Sayid were big players in Ben becoming who he is. Right?

When Hurley asked, why doesn't Ben remember us, why didn't they stop and think that he probably DID remember them. How else would he have known so much about them? That's the only part of that conversation that bugged me. WE can see that Ben remembered them, why can't they?

 

[Kycha]

Last night was a "answer" episode. I think it is funny that we as viewers beg for answers. Re-explain the time travel, what happened to Aaron, what did Sawyer tell Kate, etc etc and then we find out ALL that stuff and people don't like the episode.

I was thinking the same thing. I happened to love last nights episode. But there is so much more that needs to be explained and a limited amount of episodes to do it. They have a lot of stuff to pack into the next 23 episodes. So I'm sure we will see more "answer" type episodes in the next season +. You can definitely feel a difference in the tone of this seasons episodes. Things are moving much quicker now than in the first 3 seasons.

It is like Nikki and Paulo. All first season people wondered about the 'red shirts' and then we meet them and hate them.

The Nikki/Paolo story line jumped the shark. I absolutely hated them. But I was one of those people that didn't care to know about the red shirts.

I think Miles should have walked over their graves and told the Losties of their fate.

That's good!

 

[karajeboo]

I cannot remember the whole red shirt thing??? I've already told DH that I want the first 4 seasons on dvd for Mother's Day!!!

 

[harleyquinn]

The Nikki/Paolo story line jumped the shark. I absolutely hated them. But I was one of those people that didn't care to know about the red shirts.
That's good!

Oh, I loved that. i hated them so much, they're crazy deaths were so fun to watch! lol

 

[karajeboo]

OK, I just looked up Nikki and Paulo and I remember it now. But still nothing about the red shirts?

 

[Kycha]

Oh, I loved that. i hated them so much, they're crazy deaths were so fun to watch! lol

Their deaths was the best part.

OK, I just looked up Nikki and Paulo and I remember it now. But still nothing about the red shirts?

From wikipedia...

A redshirt is slang term for a stock character, used frequently in Star Trek, whose primary purpose in the plot of a story is to die soon after being introduced, thus demonstrating the dangerous circumstances faced by the main characters. The term originates from the science fiction television series Star Trek (The Original Series) and is taken from the red shirts worn by security officers. On Star Trek, anonymous security officers often accompanied main characters on dangerous missions where they would invariably meet their death.[1]

In the original 1966 Star Trek series, security officers, who wear red, meet tragic ends in many episodes. Typically, a landing party includes at least one red-shirted security officer accompanying the main characters who is dead soon after the mission begins.

 

[karajeboo]

Thanx, Kycha!

 

[gometros]

Finally the whole time travel thing is clicking for me. Thank goodness for Hurley and all his confusion and questions.

I also caught the Ellie and Widmore reference ( I think they said Charles). This got me thinking that maybe Daniel and Penny are brother and sister. What do you guys think?

I'm glad it's clicking for you, because I still don't buy this whatever happened, happened theory. First, we are trying to place logic on an idea that is still in the science fiction arena (Einstein be damned). But what drives me nuts is the concept that the Losties made Ben what he was. If you consider time in a Groundhog Day sort of way, where it is in a constant linear loop, there was a first time into that loop, when we hit 1977, that the Losties were not born yet, hence could not have gone back in time to influence Ben, so Ben does not become evil causing the set of circumstances to make them go back in the first place.

 

[GoodFairies]

I'm glad it's clicking for you, because I still don't buy this whatever happened, happened theory. First, we are trying to place logic on an idea that is still in the science fiction arena (Einstein be damned). But what drives me nuts is the concept that the Losties made Ben what he was. If you consider time in a Groundhog Day sort of way, where it is in a constant linear loop, there was a first time into that loop, when we hit 1977, that the Losties were not born yet, hence could not have gone back in time to influence Ben, so Ben does not become evil causing the set of circumstances to make them go back in the first place.

If you start, say, where time begins, and get to 1977, you have different ages from all the different losties and yes some weren't born yet. But that is irrelevant because they get to 2004 before traveling back to 1977. When they travel back to 1977 on the island, they are still their 2004 ages with all their life experiences. It just so happens that because they traveled to 1977, off the island 1977 is still happening just as it always did. The characters still age, still move forward in time. It just happens that they get tossed back to 1977. The events in this period are set, they cannot be changed.