The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[WDWBarb]

My many and varied thoughts post-finale have led me to this thought...

Loophole Guy is an embodiment of Anubis (Egyptian god of the underworld) and Jacob is an embodiment of Sobek (Egyptian god of power, protection and fertility (life)...has a crocodile head and is shown standing, holding an ankh...the statue on the island is Sobek). The hieroglyph in the temple showed Anubis with Smokey so if Loophole Guy is Anubis it would mean that he can control Smokey, which seems likely. So, to me, it seems like this is a Life vs. Death match between the two of them.

I'm watching the finale for the second time and can't believe how much more I am "catching." Sorry if any of this has been discussed before - I haven't read the entire thread.

I agree 100% with what you have stated above. However, if Loophole guy is Anubis and Anubis can control Smokey, how come "Locke" seemed surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter told him to do whatever Locke said? Was Smokey not involved when Ben had this experience? I don't have that ep any longer... can't wait for the DVD!

Of course, this is going back to me assuming that Loophole guy IS Locke (or, specifically, has taken on Locke's form and even memories). That seems pretty obvious now (or does it seem TOO obvious?? hmmmm...).

And when Richard tells "Locke" that the reason he doesn't age is "Jacob made me this way," it only occured to me for the first time that Richard DOES look like he could be Egyptian. DH and I were always joking about his ability to find eyeliner on the island... but that kind of makes sense now, doesn't it? And the group that said they were the "good guys" that were carrying the "package" ... (led by Alana)? Hmmm again.

And to go back and episode (or two..) ... does anyone else think that Daniel INTENTIONALLY got himself shot? Seriously - he just walks into this group of people and agressively points a gun and doesn't expect to get shot? I think he MEANT to do it.

Or...

I also have to wonder if we're getting the "good guys" and "bad guys" confused. Maybe Jacob is the bad guy? When they go to the cabin with the package and say the need to show it to someone so he can know what he's up against, I'm assuming they think they'll find Jacob there since they have the flashback with Alana and Jacob (where he asks her if he'll do a favor for him and she agrees). They only find the cloth with the statue on it, as if to say JACOB has escaped and gone there.

I can't wait until 2010!!

 

[harleyquinn]

You know, I don't think Jacob was being kept in the cabin - remember Richard said that Jacob lived in the 4-toed statue. I think Loophole Guy was being kept in the cabin, and the ring of ash was what was keeping him in. Remember how upset Ilana was when she saw that the ash ring was broken? That showed that Loophole Guy had escaped. I think when Ben took Locke to the cabin a couple of seasons ago, Ben also noticed that the ash ring was broken then. The "help me" that Locke heard might have been Loophole Guy asking for help to kill Jacob.

And I like what everybody said about the white screen at the end - it could be from the explosion or it could also be a time flash caused by the explosion and our Losties will all be reunited in 2007. Someone on the other thread offered the possibility that when Jacob was dying and said "they're coming" that Jacob meant that the other Losties were time-traveling to 2007, rather than just Ilana's group showing up.

Dang! This show is going to keep us saying "what if" all summer long!

The only thing that bothers me about this theory is why Ilana's group goes to the cabin first, if they think the bad guy is there...shouldn't they go see jacob first? And the cloth points them to where Jacob actually is...especially with the whole code question...maybe the answer isn't Jacob, but something else in that room under the statue? The answer that RA gives in Latin translates to "That which will save us." or something like that...

I think we have a bunch of religions coming together for a basic good vs evil story here...which I'm so happy about.

I think the entire show goes back to the basic conflict between Jacob and LG...their conversation at the beginning of the episode is SUPER important...LG is angry that J is bringing the Black Rock to the island..."It always turns out the same way...they fight and kill each other..." And Jacob says something like maybe they won't this time.

I think it all comes down to them making the right choice--to live peacefully like Rose and Bernard (LOVED that BTW!!) That Jacob keeps bringing people to stop the cycle...and our group is special since he hand picked them.

And I also think that J meant that the Losties were on their way back to the future when he said "They're coming" I don't think that Sayid or Juliette actually died...

I also agree that the whole deciding to blow the bomb thing was annoying and selfish.

Anyway I wanted to say that I've REALLY enjoyed talking to you all season and look forward to spending the last season with all of you too!!!

 

[caribear]

DH and I rewatched the finale last night.....we think that Jacob and Loophole Guy is one in the same. There is good/peaceful Jacob and evil Jacob...that is why we never hear his name. Jacob in white is the one who makes other people come to the island...such as the BlackRock (Dharma, flight 815, Danielle's group, ect) which we see coming to the island in the finale. He is a believer in peace...that people can live together in harmony, but it will take time for this peace to occur. As Jacob in black says that "the end is always the same...they come, they fight, they destory, they corrup....ect" while Jacob in white says "there is only one end...everything before is just progress." So the whole show is about people living toegether in harmony. Jacob is 2 people....like split personalities...that is why they cannot kill one another and Jacob in black says he will "find a loophole" one day and kill Jacob in white. The only way to kill his "other self" is to come back in someone elses body..Locke...and have that person (or someone influence by him....Ben)kill him. Remember that Jacob in white told both Hurley(when asking him to go back to the island) and Ben(when he had he knife and was planning to kill Jacob) that they had a "choice"...he is all about free will.

Not sure how this scenario will play out....but it's our theory.

 

[Amy]

I agree 100% with what you have stated above. However, if Loophole guy is Anubis and Anubis can control Smokey, how come "Locke" seemed surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter told him to do whatever Locke said? Was Smokey not involved when Ben had this experience? I don't have that ep any longer... can't wait for the DVD!

I don't think Loophole-Guy-Locke was surprised that Smokey/Alex told Ben to do whatever Locke said. I think LGL was surprised that Ben was being so dutiful and obedient and following what Smokey/Alex told him. Ben's always been one to do whatever is in HIS best interest; blindly following LGL and doing whatever LGL tells him really goes against Ben's nature.

I also think LGL was pleased to know that Ben would do whatever he asked, since he was planning to have Ben kill Jacob.

Sarah - I've enjoyed our discussions this season, too. And we still don't know if "what happened, happened" is true or if the Losties have managed to change things.

 

[Amy]

The only thing that bothers me about this theory is why Ilana's group goes to the cabin first, if they think the bad guy is there...shouldn't they go see jacob first? And the cloth points them to where Jacob actually is...especially with the whole code question...maybe the answer isn't Jacob, but something else in that room under the statue? The answer that RA gives in Latin translates to "That which will save us." or something like that...

Ilana's group had seen Locke walking and talking on the beach after 316 crashed, and then they opened the crate and found Locke's body. I'll bet Ilana wanted to stop by the cabin first because she had a hunch that Loophole Guy had inhabited/come back to life via Locke.

 

[torinsmom]

Okay, I did not realize that on abc.com, you watch any episode from any season. SO, I am watching from the beginning on before the next season starts. I am only on season 1, episode 4, but have already seen some things that made go "hmmm". No big revelations, just little things.

I personally don't think Juliette will die, because she was alive when the bomb went off and I think that will throw them either backwards or forwards(hopefully) in time. I sure will hate to see this show end.

Marsha

 

[brookelizabeth]

Also, did anyone think Juliet was pregnant? I was surprised they didn't do something like that...because there was a definite 'moment' when Bernard looked at her intently and asked if she was sure she didn't want some tea, and she had her hand on her belly.

I caught this too...I don't think she died when the bomb went off....

I don't have any big theories, just lots of questions! I think Loophole Locke has to find someone else willing to kill Jacob, that is why he got Ben to do it, egging him on with everything that Jacob has done (and hasn't done) to him.

I love reading all your theories and ideas on here...it's been great chatting with you this season!

harleyquinn, I wish you the best with your little girl on her way.

See ya next season!!

 

[Sk8Leigh]

I don't really have any opinions on the whole Jacob/LG thing. I'll just wait and see. If it turns out to be a whole Egyptian thing, then it's like they're wanting us to study?

But I do think that when Juliet exploded the bomb, they'll all flash back to present time, and the final season will all take place there (then? ). And I don't think Juliet or Sayid will die. (Actually, it's more like I hope they won't die.)

And I do think that what happened, happened, and this whole way was the way it always happened in 1977.

 

[KSchwagg86]

Okay, I did not realize that on abc.com, you watch any episode from any season. SO, I am watching from the beginning on before the next season starts. I am only on season 1, episode 4, but have already seen some things that made go "hmmm". No big revelations, just little things.

Hopefully you don't plan on having a life for the next month!

 

[torinsmom]

Hopefully you don't plan on having a life for the next month!

Well, I have quite a life, but I also have lots more than a month to watch. New season starts in 2010(I am assuming February) so I have quite a few months. The episodes are 42 minutes long, so I usually watch 2 when I watch them. I am also off for the summer(teacher), so I will have some free time then and I'd rather watch Lost than most things that will be on during the day.

Marsha

 

[ryan840]

I thought Juliette might be pregnant too, I'm sure that wasn't an oversight if so many of us noticed it. And if it was they'll have to write it into the show now!

I think it's crazy that we're coming up on the last season and nobody has managed to figure out the puzzle yet (without spoilers anyway). That's some good writing! I can't remember the last movie I saw where I was this clueless so close to the end.

 

[debraW76]

DH and I rewatched the finale last night.....we think that Jacob and Loophole Guy is one in the same. There is good/peaceful Jacob and evil Jacob...that is why we never hear his name. Jacob in white is the one who makes other people come to the island...such as the BlackRock (Dharma, flight 815, Danielle's group, ect) which we see coming to the island in the finale. He is a believer in peace...that people can live together in harmony, but it will take time for this peace to occur. As Jacob in black says that "the end is always the same...they come, they fight, they destory, they corrup....ect" while Jacob in white says "there is only one end...everything before is just progress." So the whole show is about people living toegether in harmony. Jacob is 2 people....like split personalities...that is why they cannot kill one another and Jacob in black says he will "find a loophole" one day and kill Jacob in white. The only way to kill his "other self" is to come back in someone elses body..Locke...and have that person (or someone influence by him....Ben)kill him. Remember that Jacob in white told both Hurley(when asking him to go back to the island) and Ben(when he had he knife and was planning to kill Jacob) that they had a "choice"...he is all about free will.

Not sure how this scenario will play out....but it's our theory.

That is an interesting thought and one that I haven't come up with on my own. I would however like to point out that Ben likewise said he couldn't kill Widmore. I had thought that the same 'thing' that kept Ben from killing Widmore was also what was keeping LGL from killing Jacob.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[wdhinn89]

That is an interesting thought and one that I haven't come up with on my own. I would however like to point out that Ben likewise said he couldn't kill Widmore. I had thought that the same 'thing' that kept Ben from killing Widmore was also what was keeping LGL from killing Jacob.

What are your thoughts on that?

I brought up the same point ( either here or the spoiler thread). No one had any comments about that.

My theory is that Ben and Widmore are descendents of Jacob and Loophole Guy.

 

[caribear]

That is an interesting thought and one that I haven't come up with on my own. I would however like to point out that Ben likewise said he couldn't kill Widmore. I had thought that the same 'thing' that kept Ben from killing Widmore was also what was keeping LGL from killing Jacob.

What are your thoughts on that?

I brought up the same point ( either here or the spoiler thread). No one had any comments about that.

My theory is that Ben and Widmore are descendents of Jacob and Loophole Guy.

I am not too sure....My brain is in overload from the whole series....I did bring up that fact with DH as I remembered the scene where Ben/Widmore talk about not being able to kill one another. My first thought is that something from the island will not let them kill one another......a different situation than Jacob and LG.....but I am not really set on that theory.....I want to go back and rewatch this past season and see what else I can come up with.

 

[rparmfamily]

I'm still waiting for Kate to end up pregnant...she had that random one-night thing w/Jack right before they came back.

 

[brerrabbit]

The symbolism, the dark, the light, the black the white leads me to believe that it all boils down to a struggle between good and evil. Jacob believes in the inherent good in people and is continually trying to prove it by bringing people to the island to prove his theroy. LG as people have referred to him is evil. He represents the dark side and I think he and the smoke monster are one in the same. When Ben went for his judgement Locke disappeared to find a way to get Ben out of the room he had fallen into. He did not show back up till Ben had been judged and visited by Alex, who was the smoke monster/LG/evil. He could not be in two places at once so Locke had to disappear. The smoke monster also disappeared before Alex showed up. The writers gave hints/ foreshadowed the fact that the smoke monster was appearing as Locke when Ben told Sun that a monster is about to come out of that jungle and I can't control him. Then John walks out of the jungle. The writers told us John was evil. In my mind evil/LG was the one being held in the cabin by the ring of ash because he took the form of Christian Shepard. He was the one that told John to turn the FDW and that he had to bring the O6 back. That was evil playing out his plan. Remember John wanted Christian to help him but Christian/LG said he could not help him. Christian was actually helping the overall plan of evil to get John off the island, get the O6 back and die. The whole idea that there are "rules" and LG could not kill Jacob is similar to the notion that both God and Satan exsist in the world. They can only interact through people and getting those people to do their will. The only twist in that is that LG got a mortal , Ben, to kill Jacob. Satan could not get a mortal to kill God.

LG hatched the whole plan to get John off the island and his dead body back because for whatever reason John had been positioned as the new leader of the others when in fact he should have never been the leader. I think that Richard is Jacobs representative to choose leaders and his last two choices have been bad. First it was Ben and then Locke. Richard even tells Jack that he visited Locke over the years and he never seemed to be exceptional and wondered if he was really supposed to be the leader.

The other thing that threw me in this whole thing was that Richard made it clear that the rules were there could only be one leader and his actions in the temple with the bomb when he prevented Ellie from going with Jack and Sayid made it clear that she was the leader. If there is only one then what was Widmore? He could not have been the leader if she was.

Lots to think about for next year and I am really looking forward to it. I think they all return to 2008 for the "war" and that that war turns out to be a good vs evil struggle as sides form up for the final confrontation. I look for Desmond to have a role in things because he is special, and Hurley to have a major role because he is probably the purist soul on the whole island. He is not motivated by greed, power, or control. He does what he does because he cares about people. Jacob told he he was not crazy and his ability to converse with his dead friends was special. In a really crazy way out there prediction I can very easily see Hurley being the savior/hero in this whole thing and eventually taking Jacobs place as the good of the island.

 

[ibouncetoo]

brerrabbit, thanks for putting in words, what I was TRYING to explain to a co-worker yesterday! Think I'll just have her read your post.

 

[harleyquinn]

Ilana's group had seen Locke walking and talking on the beach after 316 crashed, and then they opened the crate and found Locke's body. I'll bet Ilana wanted to stop by the cabin first because she had a hunch that Loophole Guy had inhabited/come back to life via Locke.

Good idea. The other part that bothered me was that if it was LG in the hut, why did he leave a note for where to find Jacob? Unless Jacob did it after LG got out...

harleyquinn, I wish you the best with your little girl on her way.

See ya next season!!

Thanks so much! That was very sweet of you!

I brought up the same point ( either here or the spoiler thread). No one had any comments about that.

My theory is that Ben and Widmore are descendents of Jacob and Loophole Guy.

I don't think they are actual descendents, but rather a continuation on the curse or whatever is keeping J and LG in their struggle...it's something the island creates.

The symbolism, the dark, the light, the black the white leads me to believe that it all boils down to a struggle between good and evil.

I said the same thing a few days ago, but you took the time to write it all out so thanks!

 

[chell]

The symbolism, the dark, the light, the black the white leads me to believe that it all boils down to a struggle between good and evil. Jacob believes in the inherent good in people and is continually trying to prove it by bringing people to the island to prove his theroy. LG as people have referred to him is evil. He represents the dark side and I think he and the smoke monster are one in the same. When Ben went for his judgement Locke disappeared to find a way to get Ben out of the room he had fallen into. He did not show back up till Ben had been judged and visited by Alex, who was the smoke monster/LG/evil. He could not be in two places at once so Locke had to disappear. The smoke monster also disappeared before Alex showed up. The writers gave hints/ foreshadowed the fact that the smoke monster was appearing as Locke when Ben told Sun that a monster is about to come out of that jungle and I can't control him. Then John walks out of the jungle. The writers told us John was evil. In my mind evil/LG was the one being held in the cabin by the ring of ash because he took the form of Christian Shepard. He was the one that told John to turn the FDW and that he had to bring the O6 back. That was evil playing out his plan. Remember John wanted Christian to help him but Christian/LG said he could not help him. Christian was actually helping the overall plan of evil to get John off the island, get the O6 back and die. The whole idea that there are "rules" and LG could not kill Jacob is similar to the notion that both God and Satan exsist in the world. They can only interact through people and getting those people to do their will. The only twist in that is that LG got a mortal , Ben, to kill Jacob. Satan could not get a mortal to kill God.

When Christian talked with Sun about how to get to Jin in one of the Other's homes Locke was no where to be found. That was one of my first clues that Locke & Christian were the same entity.

What sex were the skeletons found in Season 1? At least I think Season 1. I think they were male and female since I think they called them Adam & Eve. Didn't they have one have black rocks and the other had white? Do these rocks represent Rose & Bernard or do the represent good and evil?

 

[Kycha]

What sex were the skeletons found in Season 1? At least I think Season 1. I think they were male and female since I think they called them Adam & Eve. Didn't they have one have black rocks and the other had white? Do these rocks represent Rose & Bernard or do the represent good and evil?

Yes, there was a male and a female skeleton. Locke nicknamed them Adam & Eve. The black & white stones were found in a leather pouch on one of the bodies. I don't know what the significance is yet. But the black & white theme has been an ongoing theme since season 1, episode 1.