The numbers are in ...

[WillAustin]

There are plenty of other vacation destinations with cool pools and overpriced shopping venues.

And they generally cost less overall.

 

[Barnabe]

I can go just about anywhere and lounge by the pool or go shopping. The Walt Disney Resort's primary draw is not the shopping center or the hotels. It's the theme parks. And if the theme parks are dated, stale, and lacking in imagination, then there's no reason to go to the Resort at all. There are plenty of other vacation destinations with cool pools and overpriced shopping venues.

That's how I felt on our last visit to Epcot. Actually, it's really tough even defining this as a shopping center, since virtually every store has the same merchandise. I'm with you, our family will not be returning to WDW. We can pay less and experience more at other travel destinations.

 

[Princess Jes]

I can go just about anywhere and lounge by the pool or go shopping. The Walt Disney Resort's primary draw is not the shopping center or the hotels. It's the theme parks. And if the theme parks are dated, stale, and lacking in imagination, then there's no reason to go to the Resort at all. There are plenty of other vacation destinations with cool pools and overpriced shopping venues.

I feel like you completely missed my point

 

[Marionnette]

I feel like you completely missed my point

Apparently. You seem to think that Disney can get away with stuffing people into their parks without putting money into renewing their attractions. If I read you correctly, anyone who can't find satisfaction inside the parks will just go outside of the parks for their recreation but they will continue to spend at the Resort. I maintain that if Disney doesn't keep a fresh face on their parks, then there's nothing to draw people to the Resort in the first place.

To put it in more simple terms, Disney is handing customers a coloring book instead of a tablet computer and expecting customers to be thrilled because the coloring book has princesses and Mickey.

 

[cakebaker]

Whatever it is they're handing out , people are buying it in record numbers.

The best those who don't like the track Disney is on have is "wait until...". So far we're still waiting, and not for a drop in attendance, just a leveling out. We don't even have that.

I get some people don't like what Disney is doing- that doesn't translate into most not liking it or even a significant number. Numbers don't lie and Disney's are very good.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Whatever it is they're handing out , people are buying it in record numbers.

The best those who don't like the track Disney is on have is "wait until...". So far we're still waiting, and not for a drop in attendance, just a leveling out. We don't even have that.

I get some people don't like what Disney is doing- that doesn't translate into most not liking it or even a significant number. Numbers don't lie and Disney's are very good.

I think many on this board who dislike Disney's direction are Disney "Super Users" who have been visiting the parks for many years and in many cases, multiple times a year. Maybe even locals who visit a lot every year. They may have a different perspective on the path that the parks are taking but I don't think those people represent even a marginal portion of Disney guests.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Someone going to Disney for the first time or for the first time in years isn't going to care about the slow progress of adding attractions to the parks. They are going to be absorbed in a hundred other things. In many cases, they are going to have a great time and will be so overwhelmed with at Disney has to offer, they feel they need another trip to see it all. This is what Disney is counting on. This is why attendance continues to rise.

I find it interesting that certain people on this board think they know more about running a successful, profitable
theme park resort than the company that has been doing it for 60 years or so. In a few years, if there is a danger of attendance and revenue leveling off, here comes Avatar, Star Wars, maybe Pixar land and the trend upward continues.

Even some of those who have been some of the harshest critics on this board will admit they find it hard to stay away. They may cut back their days but many still end up coming back to Disney.

Universal has great theme parks, innovative and exciting new rides and has gone a long way to improve the theming and guest experience in their parks. However, they are still not even in the same ballpark as Disney in terms as an immersive Disney bubble type vacation experience and that is what keeps drawing people back.

 

[Marionnette]

Whatever it is they're handing out , people are buying it in record numbers.

The best those who don't like the track Disney is on have is "wait until...". So far we're still waiting, and not for a drop in attendance, just a leveling out. We don't even have that.

I get some people don't like what Disney is doing- that doesn't translate into most not liking it or even a significant number. Numbers don't lie and Disney's are very good.

A smart executive does not look at last year's numbers for his business and spend the next year patting himself on the back. A forward-thinking company also looks at their competition. Disney execs should be asking themselves why USF had a 17%+ increase in attendance (after a 14% increase in 2013) while the MK only saw a 4% increase in 2014 after a 6% increase in 2013.

 

[Barnabe]

I think many on this board who dislike Disney's direction are Disney "Super Users" who have been visiting the parks for many years and in many cases, multiple times a year. Maybe even locals who visit a lot every year. They may have a different perspective on the path that the parks are taking but I don't think those people represent even a marginal portion of Disney guests.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Someone going to Disney for the first time or for the first time in years isn't going to care about the slow progress of adding attractions to the parks. They are going to be absorbed in a hundred other things. In many cases, they are going to have a great time and will be so overwhelmed with at Disney has to offer, they feel they need another trip to see it all. This is what Disney is counting on. This is why attendance continues to rise.

I find it interesting that certain people on this board think they know more about running a successful, profitable
theme park resort than the company that has been doing it for 60 years or so. In a few years, if there is a danger of attendance and revenue leveling off, here comes Avatar, Star Wars, maybe Pixar land and the trend upward continues.

Even some of those who have been some of the harshest critics on this board will admit they find it hard to stay away. They may cut back their days but many still end up coming back to Disney.

Universal has great theme parks, innovative and exciting new rides and has gone a long way to improve the theming and guest experience in their parks. However, they are still not even in the same ballpark as Disney in terms as an immersive Disney bubble type vacation experience and that is what keeps drawing people back.

Every message you post seems to explain why others are dissatisfied with Disney. Why don't you post what you like about Disney, rather than trying to explain why others are unhappy with the company's current direction? Are you just trying to pick fights?

 

[mellyf]

I think many on this board who dislike Disney's direction are Disney "Super Users" who have been visiting the parks for many years and in many cases, multiple times a year. Maybe even locals who visit a lot every year. They may have a different perspective on the path that the parks are taking but I don't think those people represent even a marginal portion of Disney guests.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Someone going to Disney for the first time or for the first time in years isn't going to care about the slow progress of adding attractions to the parks. They are going to be absorbed in a hundred other things. In many cases, they are going to have a great time and will be so overwhelmed with at Disney has to offer, they feel they need another trip to see it all. This is what Disney is counting on. This is why attendance continues to rise.

I find it interesting that certain people on this board think they know more about running a successful, profitable
theme park resort than the company that has been doing it for 60 years or so. In a few years, if there is a danger of attendance and revenue leveling off, here comes Avatar, Star Wars, maybe Pixar land and the trend upward continues.

Even some of those who have been some of the harshest critics on this board will admit they find it hard to stay away. They may cut back their days but many still end up coming back to Disney.

Universal has great theme parks, innovative and exciting new rides and has gone a long way to improve the theming and guest experience in their parks. However, they are still not even in the same ballpark as Disney in terms as an immersive Disney bubble type vacation experience and that is what keeps drawing people back.

Just felt the need to post a quick reply to a couple of points in your post. My husband and I are nowhere near "super users." We have been going to Disney since 1996 (not nearly as long as many on this board). Usually every 18-24 months, but occasionally a couple of extra visits in there. I don't think legacy was in place when we first started going, but once it was, we probably only got 2-3 a day. Example, for RnRC, we'd grab one when we first got to the park, ride standby, and then use the FP when it was time. We always used within the window...we didn't know any better. We didn't go out of our way to get a fastpass; we'd just grab one if we were close by. Or, once the TP app had that capability, we'd check the app if we were interested in getting a FP for something...you could check the return time from the app without crossing the park. What I don't like about FP+ is the necessity (and yes, if you want to ride without long standby lines during busy times -- I'm a teacher -- it IS a necessity) of scheduling rides. I'm a planner, and that's just too much planning for me.

With regards to Universal, I probably would have agreed with you after our first trip there in 2008, but after our last trip there in January, I have to disagree. We just visited for the day back in 2008, and I thought it was fun (fell in love with The Mummy!!!), but imo, it just couldn't compare to Disney. However, when we stayed in January (on site at the Royal Pacific), we fell in love with it. Absolutely LOVED walking to the parks as opposed to taking a bus or other transportation. Maybe that's one of the reasons we love the Boardwalk resorts...walking to International Gateway. We did early entry at IOA every morning. The first couple of mornings, I was still thinking that Disney had the edge, even though we were having a wonderful time, but by that 3rd morning, I was hooked. I know we will go back to Disney. We love it too, but Universal & HP will be our next Florida vacation again.

I guess this wasn't a "quick" reply.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Every message you post seems to explain why others are dissatisfied with Disney. Why don't you post what you like about Disney, rather than trying to explain why others are unhappy with the company's current direction? Are you just trying to pick fights?

What does it matter to you what I choose to post on or the opinions I hold? Thanks for the suggestions on what I should be posting on but I think I will do what I want.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Just felt the need to post a quick reply to a couple of points in your post. My husband and I are nowhere near "super users." We have been going to Disney since 1996 (not nearly as long as many on this board). Usually every 18-24 months, but occasionally a couple of extra visits in there. I don't think legacy was in place when we first started going, but once it was, we probably only got 2-3 a day. Example, for RnRC, we'd grab one when we first got to the park, ride standby, and then use the FP when it was time. We always used within the window...we didn't know any better. We didn't go out of our way to get a fastpass; we'd just grab one if we were close by. Or, once the TP app had that capability, we'd check the app if we were interested in getting a FP for something...you could check the return time from the app without crossing the park. What I don't like about FP+ is the necessity (and yes, if you want to ride without long standby lines during busy times -- I'm a teacher -- it IS a necessity) of scheduling rides. I'm a planner, and that's just too much planning for me.

With regards to Universal, I probably would have agreed with you after our first trip there in 2008, but after our last trip there in January, I have to disagree. We just visited for the day back in 2008, and I thought it was fun (fell in love with The Mummy!!!), but imo, it just couldn't compare to Disney. However, when we stayed in January (on site at the Royal Pacific), we fell in love with it. Absolutely LOVED walking to the parks as opposed to taking a bus or other transportation. Maybe that's one of the reasons we love the Boardwalk resorts...walking to International Gateway. We did early entry at IOA every morning. The first couple of mornings, I was still thinking that Disney had the edge, even though we were having a wonderful time, but by that 3rd morning, I was hooked. I know we will go back to Disney. We love it too, but Universal & HP will be our next Florida vacation again.

I guess this wasn't a "quick" reply.

There will always be different strokes for different folks.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Someone going to Disney for the first time or for the first time in years isn't going to care about the slow progress of adding attractions to the parks. They are going to be absorbed in a hundred other things. In many cases, they are going to have a great time and will be so overwhelmed with at Disney has to offer, they feel they need another trip to see it all. This is what Disney is counting on. This is why attendance continues to rise.

I think this is very true, not just in terms of rides but also the entertainment offerings.

I always think of this when I read that DHS or DAK are half-day parks. They are half-day parks only if you have seen all of the shows and don't desire to see them again at that time.

Same for the parades. A first-timer can't miss a parade that got cut. Same for other entertainment offerings that get cut.

I guess the question is, why can't a multi-bazillion dollar entertainment and film company switch out shows once in a while? Why do parades have to get cut? I'm convinced the focus is on first-timers. Sure, repeat customers are welcome, but that is not who WDW is trying to please.

 

[Luckybee]

Apparently. You seem to think that Disney can get away with stuffing people into their parks without putting money into renewing their attractions. If I read you correctly, anyone who can't find satisfaction inside the parks will just go outside of the parks for their recreation but they will continue to spend at the Resort. I maintain that if Disney doesn't keep a fresh face on their parks, then there's nothing to draw people to the Resort in the first place.

To put it in more simple terms, Disney is handing customers a coloring book instead of a tablet computer and expecting customers to be thrilled because the coloring book has princesses and Mickey.

I thought Jes was speaking with a touch of sarcasm but perhaps I was wrong. I thought she was describing how she thought the powers that be at Disney felt ?

 

[BugsDaddy]

I think this is very true, not just in terms of rides but also the entertainment offerings.

I always think of this when I read that DHS or DAK are half-day parks. They are half-day parks only if you have seen all of the shows and don't desire to see them again at that time.

Same for the parades. A first-timer can't miss a parade that got cut. Same for other entertainment offerings that get cut.

I guess the question is, why can't a multi-bazillion dollar entertainment and film company switch out shows once in a while? Why do parades have to get cut? I'm convinced the focus is on first-timers. Sure, repeat customers are welcome, but that is not who WDW is trying to please.

I think you are right. The focus is on first time guests. Strictly from a business perspective, they know that they do not have to create new attractions or change existing attractions to bring in first time guests. A well placed commercial on Disney JR. And here comes the flood.

They also know that with several large attractions probably coming in the next 3 or 4 years, those first time guests will see those commercials in a few years and come back to experience those rides.

Universal increased their market share by 2% over Disney by putting in HP and Diagon Alley. That was expected. The difference between Universal and Disney in my mind is that Universal must constantly be adding to and changing their attractions in order to continue to bring in first time guests where Disney gets by on brand recognition and their media empire.

 

[Jennytoon]

For a long time on these boards I've repeatedly heard the mantra that you profess above with regard to Express Pass. Now I see that there is only a few thousand difference in daily visits between Universal/Islands and Epcot/HP and AK. Lets assume for a minute that you are correct with regard to MK. Then isn't the assumption also correct that the wonderfully amazing EP system that Universal has in place would in fact work for any of Epcot, AK or HS ? Arent we looking at parks now with daily attendances of only 27 or 28,000 ?

This is a reasonable question. Two answers I can think of readily:

1) Given everything I've read about people's reaction to the potential complexity of the new proposed tiered tickets, I'm not sure everyone will be standing in line eagerly awaiting the complexity of buying a 5-day hopper with water-park fun & more with a fixed day chosen at time of purchase that can only be used at Epcot because it has Express Pass attached to it for an additional fee.

2) While I have not experienced Express Pass or US myself, I have seen no shortage of posts that US is becoming difficult to manage without EP on crowded days, and that US is aware it is not a system that can hold as the parks get more popular (not included with moderates, doesn't apply to Harry Potter). So while it's perfectly fair to say that since US attendance is similar to Epcot that similar queue management systems should be viable for both, I think it's equally fair to say that now that US attendance is approaching that of Epcot, their queue management system might not handle those crowd levels so well.

 

[Luckybee]

Just felt the need to post a quick reply to a couple of points in your post. My husband and I are nowhere near "super users." We have been going to Disney since 1996 (not nearly as long as many on this board). Usually every 18-24 months, but occasionally a couple of extra visits in there. I don't think legacy was in place when we first started going, but once it was, we probably only got 2-3 a day. Example, for RnRC, we'd grab one when we first got to the park, ride standby, and then use the FP when it was time. We always used within the window...we didn't know any better. We didn't go out of our way to get a fastpass; we'd just grab one if we were close by. Or, once the TP app had that capability, we'd check the app if we were interested in getting a FP for something...you could check the return time from the app without crossing the park. What I don't like about FP+ is the necessity (and yes, if you want to ride without long standby lines during busy times -- I'm a teacher -- it IS a necessity) of scheduling rides. I'm a planner, and that's just too much planning for me.

With regards to Universal, I probably would have agreed with you after our first trip there in 2008, but after our last trip there in January, I have to disagree. We just visited for the day back in 2008, and I thought it was fun (fell in love with The Mummy!!!), but imo, it just couldn't compare to Disney. However, when we stayed in January (on site at the Royal Pacific), we fell in love with it. Absolutely LOVED walking to the parks as opposed to taking a bus or other transportation. Maybe that's one of the reasons we love the Boardwalk resorts...walking to International Gateway. We did early entry at IOA every morning. The first couple of mornings, I was still thinking that Disney had the edge, even though we were having a wonderful time, but by that 3rd morning, I was hooked. I know we will go back to Disney. We love it too, but Universal & HP will be our next Florida vacation again.

I guess this wasn't a "quick" reply.

You could be us....we tried US many moons ago and were not impressed. After our short visit in Sep, and then again this past May we are now hooked. Next year as of now our plans are for 3 or 4 days at U. and either no Disney at all or just one day for MK

 

[joannamet]

We complain about crowds at Disney but every attraction in the area where I live is just as miserably crowded. I'd rather be in a disney park with 10 level crowds any day than 6 Flags or an aquarium that's so packed you can't walk through it.

 

[BugsDaddy]

This is a reasonable question. Two answers I can think of readily:

1) Given everything I've read about people's reaction to the potential complexity of the new proposed tiered tickets, I'm not sure everyone will be standing in line eagerly awaiting the complexity of buying a 5-day hopper with water-park fun & more with a fixed day chosen at time of purchase that can only be used at Epcot because it has Express Pass attached to it for an additional fee.

2) While I have not experienced Express Pass or US myself, I have seen no shortage of posts that US is becoming difficult to manage without EP on crowded days, and that US is aware it is not a system that can hold as the parks get more popular (not included with moderates, doesn't apply to Harry Potter). So while it's perfectly fair to say that since US attendance is similar to Epcot that similar queue management systems should be viable for both, I think it's equally fair to say that now that US attendance is approaching that of Epcot, their queue management system might not handle those crowd levels so well.

You are absolutely correct. As attendance continues to increase at Universal and Universal continues to add capacity for onsite guests, there will be a tipping point. They will no longer be able to have the Express Pass as it exists today as a benefit for only a portion of their guests. I don't think the new hotels they are building will have access to express pass. Universal knows the problem is coming and I am sure they are already working on a solution which will probably look and feel a lot like FP+.

 

[Barnabe]

You're new here....so let if suffice to say....yes that is exactly what he is doing

Thanks.

 

[Luckybee]

This is a reasonable question. Two answers I can think of readily:

1) Given everything I've read about people's reaction to the potential complexity of the new proposed tiered tickets, I'm not sure everyone will be standing in line eagerly awaiting the complexity of buying a 5-day hopper with water-park fun & more with a fixed day chosen at time of purchase that can only be used at Epcot because it has Express Pass attached to it for an additional fee.

2) While I have not experienced Express Pass or US myself, I have seen no shortage of posts that US is becoming difficult to manage without EP on crowded days, and that US is aware it is not a system that can hold as the parks get more popular (not included with moderates, doesn't apply to Harry Potter). So while it's perfectly fair to say that since US attendance is similar to Epcot that similar queue management systems should be viable for both, I think it's equally fair to say that now that US attendance is approaching that of Epcot, their queue management system might not handle those crowd levels so well.

Actually for your # 1 EP doesn't have to be "attached" to the ticket. While true that one can purchase tickets with an EP add on at U EP can also be purchased as a separate item, or if one is staying at a deluxe U resort it becomes an add on automatically so it is far less complicated than say fp+ ...nothing to book just pick it up and use.

With regard to your # 2...I am sure there are some days where it does become a bigger problem than others, we've now used EP in the past year a couple of times on 5 different days (not super busy though to be fair) although the last occasion was a 7 and we found that EP worked spectacularly. Just like with FP+ we walked past some pretty long lines for the attractions. The only difference was we were able to do that repeatedly as opposed to "just 3". Now do I think if the growth continues U will make changes to the EP system ? Yes. I expect that only the deluxe resorts will keep EP, and I expect the price for it will keep going up and that they will limit the numbers sold per day as they have been. Still having that option imho is wonderful.