The Liberals with Ignatieff

[declansdad]

Just jumping in to examine the poll results (so far) - of course this isn't remotely a large enough sample to get accurate results in terms of general vote distribution (NDP and Green would show much higher in an actual poll for example).

However, at least among the DIS members, there's a fair amount of party loyalty going on. What has surprised me the most:

1. Nobody jumping ship from the Liberals - I would have thought there might be a left-wing Liberal Rae loyalist out there who would rather vote NDP than the Liberals under the far more centrist (even slightly right-wing) Ignatieff.
2. Seeing someone who voted NDP last time planning to vote Liberal this time - although without an explanation, this could be "strategic" voting. Since Dion was far more to the left in the Liberal Party, I didn't expect Ignatieff to draw votes from the NDP - except, as I said, for those willing to vote strategically.
3. A little surprised that there isn't at least one Conservative who is planning on voting Liberal (although TheZue posted that there is a slight chance of their vote changing). On the other hand, the DIS in general (both the Canadian and especially the General forum) in terms of political views seems to have far more members who have a conservative outlook.

While I think Ignatieff is a much better choice than Dion or Rae, I don't vote for the leader. I vote for my local MP.

In my case the Liberal candidate was a better choice. Since the Conservative candidate won and I don't think he was a good choice, I don't suspect he will be my choice in the next election (whenever that may be).

 

[esdras]

While I think Ignatieff is a much better choice than Dion or Rae, I don't vote for the leader. I vote for my local MP.

In my case the Liberal candidate was a better choice. Since the Conservative candidate won and I don't think he was a good choice, I don't suspect he will be my choice in the next election (whenever that may be).

I do a little of both.

Generally, I'm a moderate (issue by issue, no party covers all of my stances). For example, I'm in favour of strong gun control, anti capital punishment, pro-life (open to some exceptions though), open to civil same-sex marriage (religious groups should be able to make their own choice - thus, I advocate for a clear church-state separation for marriage - i.e., clergy of any faith group should no longer be able to perform marriages and have them legally recognized by the state. Much like many European nations, people wanting to be both legally and religiously married would need to have two services.

I'm fiscally moderate as well - I have no problems with taxes when they support things I believe should be valued by society as a whole - such as good healthcare and education. I would also accept lower corporate taxes provided that for every point the company's tax rate goes down, a corresponding increase would be levied on any executive of that company making an exorbitant salary.

Essentially, issue by issue, I try my best to determine what I think would be best for our country and society as a whole. Obviously, people will disagree with a number of my positions - but such is the nature of a pluralistic nation.

I mentioned in the other thread that I have an excellent Liberal MP in my riding - and I would probably have voted for him had he represented any party.

Since my political outlook is center or center-left, I do have a harder time being convinced to vote for a Conservative candidate - especially with the current manifestation of the party being more right-wing then even the Mulroney era Progressive Conservatives.

On the other hand, the one time I voted NDP was when Rae got in as Ontario Premier - I was in university and voted based on his promise to freeze tuition rates. Considering the obsene hike imposed by his government the very next year, I've been a little jaded regarding the NDP since then. (Yes, I know that was almost 20 years ago - but I'm still not impressed). That's why I'm glad Rae didn't take over as Liberal leader.

Sorry, I'm rambling here. Basically, while I'm generally inclined to vote Liberal (not too far left or right for my liking), I could be pursuaded to vote for another party if I consider the local candidate to be outstanding.

 

[TheZue]

Esdras that's too funny, you and I are both very diverse in our feelings on issues but totally opposite on a few lol. I hate trying to figure out who to vote for when things heat up. One question for you with same sex marriage..by forcing two ceremonies you would be denying athiests the right to marry. How do reconcile that? Marriage is far older than any modern day religion and I think that holding that term for the religious alone would have me running for my lawyer to challenge it under the charter.

 

[esdras]

Esdras that's too funny, you and I are both very diverse in our feelings on issues but totally opposite on a few lol. I hate trying to figure out who to vote for when things heat up. One question for you with same sex marriage..by forcing two ceremonies you would be denying athiests the right to marry. How do reconcile that? Marriage is far older than any modern day religion and I think that holding that term for the religious alone would have me running for my lawyer to challenge it under the charter.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear in regards to marriage.

In many European nations the only marriage that is recognized as legal is one that was performed by a state official. In other words, you cannot get a marriage licence and have a religious ceremony. If you want to be married BOTH legally and religiously, you must first go to "City Hall" and then have a subsequent religious ceremony.

For those who are athiests, they would have no desire to be married by a religious official anyway, so all they have to do is go to city hall - then they are married, legally - that's it.

Essentially, this avoids the conflict with same-sex marriage where those activists argue that they want exactly what anyone else is entitled to - and they would, under this scenario. If a religious marriage carried no legal status, a same-sex couple would find no purpose in fighting for that right unless they were members of that religious body - and then, logically, it should be that religious body's right to determine their own approach.

 

[esdras]

I think that holding that term for the religious alone would have me running for my lawyer to challenge it under the charter.

Sorry, for the double post - just wanted to clarify one other thing.

For the people who say that there is "no such thing as same-sex marriage" - that is innaccurate. There ARE nations that have legal state-recognized same-sex marriage. I'm not debating the term, as I don't think either can claim total ownership.

There IS, however, a difference between civil and religious marriage. While a number of characteristics overlap, there is by necessity some spiritual element required for a religious marriage that is not necessarily required in a civil marriage (although I don't deny that two spiritual people can marry in a civil service and - by they own choice - bring a spiritual element into their marriage). A Civil marriage doesn't (and shouldn't) assume to unite two people "in the sight of God".

Personally, rather than call a same-sex marriage something else (same-sex civil union for example), and thereby angering the gay rights activists by implying that their union is something "less" than a marriage, I propose distinguishing a spiritual union from civil marriage by referring to it as "Holy Matrimony" - or something similar that would be acceptable to that particular religious body.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[damo]

Interesting poll. Only four people have changed their minds and only 2 of those will vote liberal.

 

[PhotobearSam]

Honestly, I don't care who the Liberal leader is, it's not going to change my vote. The political maneuvering done at this time in our economy by the "coalition" has done one thing and one thing only in our home - it has absolutely GUARANTEED that we will NEVER vote Liberal or NDP again. The sheer avarice and blatant disregard of all Canadians has shown us what the Liberals and NDP are truly made of - and it isn't pretty.

AMEN!!!!

 

[I Run Long]

I usually vote based on who I think is best for my riding rather than by party. That being said, even if I really like my MP, if their party supported some issues that I am really at odds with, then I could not support them. Since my MP is not planning on running in the next election, I guess we'll see what trickles down in his place.