The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

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You know me well enough to know that I would never compare Obama to Shrub and to say that I read it over on the Hillary thread and am parroting it here is insulting.

Oh, c'mon, Robin...You should know me better than to think I was saying you were just parroting what you heard. I was commenting on the people making those comments, and saying that you may have thought LoG was making a similar one, that's all. Honestly. If I phrased it in such a way as to make you think I was insulting you, then I apologize, as it truly wasn't my intent.

If that's so, then my apologies to Laugh O. Grams. I thought that he was trying to say that Clinton would take the VP only if she thought she could run the show behind the scenes ala Darth Cheney.

I don't think that's what LoG meant. I think it was just a shot at Cheney (the "Darth" comment) and a poorly phrased comment (sorry, LoG ;) Obviously I do it too) on her wish to be very active in a VP role.

I ask though, who wouldn't want an active VP?

There have been plenty of presidencies where the Veep was essentially just a "spare", given no real responsibilities. Bush 1 is a perfect example. I don't think Obama would want that, as he doesn't strike me as the power hungry type.

How would you feel about Hillary taking over the Senate Majority office though, rather than the VP slot?


ETA - Or I could be completely wrong. :teeth: Honestly, that's not the way I saw the comment. Sorry about that.
 
I think we need some laughter here. I received the "Obama = anti-Christ" email this morning. Do people actually believe this crap? I find that thought hilarious, but I digress.

I'll let the nuts handle the "Obama = Anti-Christ" lunacy. This other email was the one I wanted to share:

My DH has offerred to take one for the team and concentrate on the beer runs. :lmao:
But my favorite beer is imported... :headache:

As for the other e-mail - unbelievable. Where do people come up with these things?
 
But my favorite beer is imported... :headache:

As for the other e-mail - unbelievable. Where do people come up with these things?

Go with Sam Adams, or some microbrew that's local. Just stay away from the swill that they tend to advertise on the Super Bowl. :teeth:
 
And you shouldn't. :thumbsup2

Do you think that part of this feeling about Hillary could be due to the fact that she's a woman? Not from yourself necessarily but could people see her as more shrill and pushy because of gender? I've been trying to picture Hillary as a man and wonder if "his" acts would have the same impact with some people.

Because she's a woman? No way! Not at all!! I have a wife who is extremely hands on and has been instrumental to the success of our business and two daughter who I hope grow up to be President and Secretary of State, ala the Kennedy boys, some day. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that she's a woman. Remember, at the beginning of this whole thing and up until about SC, I was a big time Hillary supporter and even sent contributions to her campaign.

Oh, I had no problem with the "Darth" part, LOL! I adore Jim Ward's impression on the Stephanie Miller show!

I do think that your comment was an insult to both candidates. It implies that Hillary is a back-stabbing conniving witch who will do anything to get into power, including taking the VP spot and then trying to rule from there. Like Dick Cheney. It's also an insult to Barack that somehow he isn't strong enough to be his own leader and that he would dance to Hillary's merry tune.

Honestly, comparing either candidate to anyone in the current administration is pretty insulting, IMO!

I think that from some of the things Hill has said about Barack, about his lack of experience and her husband's attempts to compare Obama unfavorably with even John McCain, leads me to believe that it's Hillary herself who feels that Barack isn't strong enough to be his own leader. Personally, I think Barack is more than ready to lead, my thought is that Hillary, and many of her supporters, think otherwise.
 

Oh, c'mon, Robin...You should know me better than to think I was saying you were just parroting what you heard.
We're cool :). I just didn't like the part about reading the other thread and being "mistaken".

I don't think that's what LoG meant. I think it was just a shot at Cheney (the "Darth" comment) and a poorly phrased comment (sorry, LoG ;) Obviously I do it too) on her wish to be very active in a VP role.
Well ... I was right about LoG ;). I think you were both typing at the same time.

There have been plenty of presidencies where the Veep was essentially just a "spare", given no real responsibilities. Bush 1 is a perfect example. I don't think Obama would want that, as he doesn't strike me as the power hungry type.
I agree with you about Obama. He's NOT the power hungry type and I think that really resonates with his followers. I think his whole non-traditional campaign style appeals to many people (myself included). I think that in comparison it makes Hillary's traditional campaigning appear to be much more sinister and evil ("scorched earth", "Tonya Harding", "poisoned well") than it really is.

How would you feel about Hillary taking over the Senate Majority office though, rather than the VP slot?
I don't really know. I'll have to mull it over.
 
Interesting read!!! Guess it's just not the Obama supporters after all who feel she is dividing the party....



Clinton tactics turn off some superdelegates Posted: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:55 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008, Clinton

From NBC/NJ's Matthew E. Berger
At a time when Sen. Hillary Clinton is increasingly relying on superdelegates to vault her to the Democratic Party's nomination, a handful of undecided and pledged superdelegates are coming forward to say her campaign's tactics in recent weeks are doing more harm than good.

The Democratic Party insiders say they believe Clinton's direct attacks against Sen. Barack Obama in recent days are hurting the party and its chances in November, and also say it is showing a calculated, desperate-to-win side of Clinton that they dislike.

"In looking at the manner in which the candidates are campaigning, I think it would be best they focused their attention on the presumptive nominee and showed our party which one is better in campaigning against McCain," said Garry Shay, a California superdelegate, who announced his support for Clinton.

Unlike

The Clinton campaign has been actively wooing these delegates, believing a plurality represents the strongest, and increasingly the only, way for her to win the nomination. But one undeclared delegate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the recent tactics are turning her and other superdelegates off.

"I don't think anybody's saying 'step aside,' but 'stop with the garbage' is what people want to say," the delegate said. "Just chill a little bit."

s Aactivists committed to the party, they said, they have been impressed by Obama's ability to bring new Democrats into the fold, and they worry that Clinton is threatening that​
.

"We like the fact that there is a candidate that has won so many states overwhelmingly," the delegate said. "We're feeling her advisors are leading her in a path that diminishes her as well as him."

Several said they were angered by comments from James Carville, who called Bill Richardson "Judas" for backing Obama after serving in the Clinton White House. One delegate said Richardson's rationale for supporting Obama, and his implicit frustration at the Clintons' heavy-handed approach to garnering his support, was echoed among superdelegates.

Others said they were frustrated by recent reports that Clinton embellished her description of landing in Bosnia as First Lady, and said it suggested she would do anything to win. "I don't remember what movie I saw two weeks ago; I don't necessarily remember what I had for dinner last night," one superdelegate said. "But I would remember having to duck and run from sniper fire."

The final straw, though, were Clinton's comments Tuesday, when she said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright "would not have been my pastor." Several superdelegates saw it as a direct, personal attack on Obama.

"I think it's very dangerous for any candidate to constantly thrum on what they perceive as sensational criticisms of their opponent," said Debra Kozikowski, an uncommitted superdelegate from Massachusetts. "I would be more likely to respond positively to discussions of issues that effect Americans versus what might be perceived as character flaws."

Clinton campaign officials said Clinton's comments were a direct response to a question she received at an editorial board meeting and suggested personal attacks have gone in both directions in the primary race.

The party activists said they have been receiving calls from members, a majority of whom want them to support whoever has won the popular vote. Many superdelegates are themselves elected by the Democratic Party and believe most will follow the will of party members for the party's future, and their own viability.

And they say they are not buying some of the Clinton campaign's explanations as to why they should support her, whether it is her victories in large states, primary states or those likely to go Democratic in the November election.

"Periodically, over the last couple of weeks, you will see a news story or get something from the campaign, and you'll go, 'How stupid do you think I am?" one uncommitted superdelegate said. "All of us watch television all the time, read the newspapers. We all play with the little charts online too. We know it is virtually impossible."

One delegate said the Clinton campaign is "using Jeremiah Wright to scare white people."

"A full and fair debate about issues and differences and even fights is good," the delegate said. "Mud slinging, personal attacks and lying is never good for any political fight or party. And I see a lot of that coming from one side more than the other."
The delegates said there is little the party or its leaders can do to prevent the current back and forth. But some said they were increasingly in touch with Clinton campaign officials to say their support is in jeopardy.

"Uncommitted delegates can come out and say, 'If you don't stop this now, we won't vote for you,'" one uncommitted superdelegate said.
 
Go with Sam Adams, or some microbrew that's local. Just stay away from the swill that they tend to advertise on the Super Bowl. :teeth:
I stick with fine Wisconsin beer! My favorite is New Glarus Spotted Cow :). It's made about 30 miles from me.

newglrsc.gif
 
And you shouldn't. :thumbsup2

Do you think that part of this feeling about Hillary could be due to the fact that she's a woman? Not from yourself necessarily but could people see her as more shrill and pushy because of gender? I've been trying to picture Hillary as a man and wonder if "his" acts would have the same impact with some people.

For me, this has nothing to do with Hillary being a woman. Before the start of this primary season, I really thought she was going to take it all. She impressed me after the first debate. I remember telling my DH: "She could be president".

I think it's sad what has happened and not because of Obama. I think Hillary had a chance and a damned good one. I don't if she got bad advice, but the Hillary of today is not the Hillary we saw in the first debates. There's no joy in her campaigning. It is just so sad to watch.
 
Obama's speech on the economy this morning was amazing! He spoke so articulately! Now Dubya is on stuttering and stumbling and misspeaking about 'the success in' Iraq. What a sad comparison. :headache:
 
I don't think that's what LoG meant. I think it was just a shot at Cheney (the "Darth" comment) and a poorly phrased comment (sorry, LoG ;) Obviously I do it too) on her wish to be very active in a VP role.

Sorry, buddy...didn't mean throw you under the bus like that. After all the machinations over the past couple weeks, I just now see something in Hillary that I've never seen before. Unfortunately, she strikes me as a win at all costs politician who would jump at the opportunity to attempt to rule from behind the Wizard's curtain, not that a President Obama would allow that. I just think her as VP would be very problematic.
 
Interesting read!!! Guess it's just not the Obama supporters after all who feel she is dividing the party....
I could bold a whole bunch of pro-Hillary stuff in the article too but I won't bother. Why not just quote it as-is and let us make up our own minds?
 
Obama's speech on the economy this morning was amazing! He spoke so articulately! Now Dubya is on stuttering and stumbling and misspeaking about 'the success in' Iraq. What a sad comparison. :headache:
I'm sure Letterman's Great Moments in Presidential Speeches will get some choice excerpts. There's always a silver lining. :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
 
Obama's speech on the economy this morning was amazing! He spoke so articulately! Now Dubya is on stuttering and stumbling and misspeaking about 'the success in' Iraq. What a sad comparison. :headache:


This is way we must rally around whoever the dems nominate. I can not endure 4 more years of bad speeches, misspeaking, that blank look in their eyes. Not to mention the policies McCain will bring with him.
 
This is way we must rally around whoever the dems nominate. I can not endure 4 more years of bad speeches, misspeaking, that blank look in their eyes. Not to mention the policies McCain will bring with him.


:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2
 
The article was interesting and Hillary should pay attention. I say this as a true Hillary supporter. I believe in her despite everything but perception is important and lately she's clouded that.

I don't agree that Obama isn't power hungry. I think you have to be at least a little power hungry to be a successful politician. He's just way more subtle about it IMO.
 
I stick with fine Wisconsin beer! My favorite is New Glarus Spotted Cow :). It's made about 30 miles from me.

newglrsc.gif

I always do two things when I travel for business...1) Check out a local brand of BBQ Chips (yeah, I'm weird...so sue me :teeth: ), and 2) Check out a local brand of beer. I've tried beers in several parts of the country, at either microbreweries or hotel bars, but I've NEVER seen a frickin' Spotted Cow. :lmao: 'Course, I don't get to Wisconsin much, so that might explain that. :thumbsup2


Obama's speech on the economy this morning was amazing! He spoke so articulately! Now Dubya is on stuttering and stumbling and misspeaking about 'the success in' Iraq. What a sad comparison. :headache:

Has anyone clued Bush in to the prospects of $4.00 per gallon gasoline, yet? I know that at his last press conference he wasn't aware of it. :rolleyes:
 
This is way we must rally around whoever the dems nominate. I can not endure 4 more years of bad speeches, misspeaking, that blank look in their eyes. Not to mention the policies McCain will bring with him.
I won't miss Bush, "The Great Republican Orator". :rotfl: :rotfl:
But replacing Bush with "I don't know nothin' about econ" McCain isn't a good idea, either.
“I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.”--John McCain

Gee...doesn't it seem like the economy is a really big issue these days??? Every time I read that quote I get more concerned. Between the economy and the no exit plan war (lets stay another 5,10 or 100 years), it's hard to see why anyone would vote with the Reps.
 
I don't agree that Obama isn't power hungry. I think you have to be at least a little power hungry to be a successful politician. He's just way more subtle about it IMO.

I doubt doubt that whatsoever. I just like Obama's "soft touch" after decades of petty partisan bickering. I also don't doubt that if Clinton were to somehow win the nomination, I think that for all the reasons she wouldn't be a good VP for Obama, she'd probably make a kick *** president in her own right, if that makes any sense...
 
I won't miss Bush, "The Great Republican Orator". :rotfl: :rotfl:
But replacing Bush with "I don't know nothin' about econ" McCain isn't a good idea, either.
“I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.”--John McCain

Gee...doesn't it seem like the economy is a really big issue these days??? Every time I read that quote I get more concerned. Between the economy and the no exit plan war (lets stay another 5,10 or 100 years), it's hard to see why anyone would vote with the Reps.

The party in power has never won a presidential election during a recession. I think these are the best days for John McCain when it comes to his quest for the presidency. He has the stage all to himself and eyes are focused on the Democrats. That won't last forever.
 
The party in power has never won a presidential election during a recession. I think these are the best days for John McCain when it comes to his quest for the presidency. He has the stage all to himself and eyes are focused on the Democrats. That won't last forever.
Amen!
 
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