The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[wvrevy]

Wait, which line? I must have missed his saying anything, I just turned him on...

You know, one thing they must both be fuzzy on as it wasn't mentioned, but I don't think Medicare for seniors is MANDATORY, yes, most if not all sign up, but it is NOT mandatory..... I know that was mentioned twice, and both times I thought to myself, that's not correct....

The "We'll be fine. It's the American people I'm worried about" or words to that affect. Keith read her quote, then read Edwards', and there's absolutely no doubt where she got that. Frankly, I don't care, as it's a good sentiment, and may very well be an honest one on both of their parts. Just thought it was funny after that whole "plagiarism" thing.

I tend to avoid Medicaid debates, because I fully admit to not knowing much about that program, so...........

 

[JARNJ3]

Holy crap!

Hillary's big applause line at the end? Guess what? It's not her line!

John Edwards spoke almost those exact words in a debate back in October. Keith Olbermann just broke that little bit of news.

Actually - Talking Points Memo attributes it originally to Bill.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

That Line

I mentioned at the end of my debate blog that the pivot of Hillary's powerful concluding remarks came from Bill Clinton's 92 campaign. Clinton had various permutations to it back then. But TPM Reader CG found one example in this November 1992 article by Anna Quindlen ...

Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

Just to be 100% clear, there's nothing in the least wrong with this. And it's a great line. But I think it shows the silliness of the 'plagiarism' charges based on a few borrowed lines. Politicians borrow good lines and catch-phrases. Happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with it.

And for the record - I have no problem with politicians borrowing other lines - its just whole speeches I have issues with........

 

[chris1gill]

Oh good grief.

Don't say Oh Good Grief, somebody needs to tell me what line we're talking about LOL... I feel like I've missed something?

 

[chris1gill]

Actually - Talking Points Memo attributes it originally to Bill.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/



And for the record - I have no problem with politicians borrowing other lines - its just whole speeches I have issues with........

Thanks, now I know what we are talking about

Oh, Politico has the second line:

Clinton Tonight: ?

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.?


Edwards the December 13 debate:

?What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.?

Some borrowing is fairly normal. What's been striking about the two Obama moments is that they were almost verbatim. This one isn't that; but it's still pretty striking.

 

[wvrevy]

Oh good grief.

I agree, completely, MJ (can I call you MJ? ). Just thought it was funny, considering the "Change you can Xerox" nonsense.

 

[eclectics]

What were you thinking? That it wasn't a concession or that she had just taken the reigns and would be the next President?

Apparently others found her closing remarks a bit puzzling or they wouldn't have sent out a specific email addressing her "real" meaning. I found them to be hinting that perhaps things might not just turn out the way she wants them to and that she is grateful that in the end, the party will prevail. That's what I was thinking.

 

[wvrevy]

Actually - Talking Points Memo attributes it originally to Bill.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/



And for the record - I have no problem with politicians borrowing other lines - its just whole speeches I have issues with........

So...Edwards stole it from Bill, and she stole it back. Gotcha.

If Obama had done that, then you're right, I'd have a problem with it to. It's a shame that he didn't do that then, or it would have been a legitimate issue.

 

[MassJester]

I agree, completely, MJ (can I call you MJ? ). Just thought it was funny, considering the "Change you can Xerox" nonsense.

Wasn't that Spiderman's girlfriend's name? Hmmmm...

Well I guess so long as ya don't call me "late for dinner."

 

[JARNJ3]

I didn't hear any sort of concession there myself, but some of the commentators thought perhaps there was a hint of one...

I don't expect her to drop out before the Convention...

Apparently the RNC sent out six (or more) emails straight in a row slamming Obama, now that's interesting.... what's the RNC thinking when the pair's policies are so similar?

Ok. Thank you.

Yeah - everyone is treating Obama as the "winner" - sort of gets it to happen for real if enough people keep acting as if it happened already.

I've said this before - I worry about Obama surviving the slams and negative ads the republicans have in store for him (see now I'm presuming he's officially won)...... McCain can legitimately throw the experience card out there - as well as the Commander-in-Chief card, having been in the military......

Its not surprising that the RNC has started already.........

I hope the Obama campaign can predict what might be the potential swiftboat areas.........

 

[chris1gill]

So...Edwards stole it from Bill, and she stole it back. Gotcha.

If Obama had done that, then you're right, I'd have a problem with it to. It's a shame that he didn't do that then, or it would have been a legitimate issue.

Those are actually two different lines she used in most part... funny it was two lines she was accusing him of using without permission, but whatever, I don't really care....

Eclectics, if you were thinking it was somewhat of a concession toned sentiment (I didn't really feel that, I thought more tears more votes ie. NH), then why did they send out an email to say that last sentiment would cause her to retake the reigns? It's odd... I just try to take it at face value and I don't think the reigns thing was face value, maybe the tears over the soldiers was at face value.... I don't know...

 

[chris1gill]

Ok. Thank you.

Yeah - everyone is treating Obama as the "winner" - sort of gets it to happen for real if enough people keep acting as if it happened already.

I've said this before - I worry about Obama surviving the slams and negative ads the republicans have in store for him (see now I'm presuming he's officially won)...... McCain can legitimately throw the experience card out there - as well as the Commander-in-Chief card, having been in the military......

Its not surprising that the RNC has started already.........

I hope the Obama campaign can predict what might be the potential swiftboat areas.........

I think BOTH Hillary & Barack need to worry about these ad's and negative tones the RNC will take with both of them.... honestly, BOTH of them have issues one way or the other....

I'm certain the Obama campaign can predict what might be or are his area's of greatest weakness, there was an RNC lovefest last weekend, where everything was basically spelled out and then leaked (thanks to the leaker)...

 

[eclectics]

Those are actually two different lines she used in most part... funny it was two lines she was accusing him of using without permission, but whatever, I don't really care....

Eclectics, if you were thinking it was somewhat of a concession toned sentiment (I didn't really feel that, I thought more tears more votes ie. NH), then why did they send out an email to say that last sentiment would cause her to retake the reigns? It's odd... I just try to take it at face value and I don't think the reigns thing was face value, maybe the tears over the soldiers was at face value.... I don't know...

Because some (including myself) were confused and they wanted to pound home her stance to make it crystal clear that what I and others thought she said was NOT the case at all.

 

[chris1gill]

Because some (including myself) were confused and they wanted to pound home her stance to make it crystal clear that what I and others thought she said was NOT the case at all.

Do you think the last line did in fact put her ahead, momentum her way as the email indicated? I clearly didn't feel either of the things mentioned, so I think it's good to talk to someone who felt at least one of those things!

 

[JARNJ3]

Those are actually two different lines she used in most part... funny it was two lines she was accusing him of using without permission, but whatever, I don't really care....

Eclectics, if you were thinking it was somewhat of a concession toned sentiment (I didn't really feel that, I thought more tears more votes ie. NH), then why did they send out an email to say that last sentiment would cause her to retake the reigns? It's odd... I just try to take it at face value and I don't think the reigns thing was face value, maybe the tears over the soldiers was at face value.... I don't know...

I'm confused - who did they send an email to? And if they did - maybe it was a rapid response to bloggers suggesting that it was a concession?

You know what's ironic - the center for the Intrepid - not government funded. Un-freaking-believable. The president starts a pre-emptive war - and this country is not equipped to take care of the wounded. So private funds have to build a hospital\rehabilitation center ..........

And only Senators Clinton and McCain were invited to speak there. I remember it clearly - Imus was there - as well as Rosie.

 

[chris1gill]

I'm confused - who did they send an email to? And if they did - maybe it was a rapid response to bloggers suggesting that it was a concession?

You know what's ironic - the center for the Intrepid - not government funded. Un-freaking-believable. The president starts a pre-emptive war - and this country is not equipped to take care of the wounded. So private funds have to build a hospital\rehabilitation center ..........

And only Senators Clinton and McCain were invited to speak there. I remember it clearly - Imus was there - as well as Rosie.

No there were two separate sets of emails. One email came from Hillary's campaign manager saying that her last lines about the soldiers put her ahead, reigns in her hand and why she would be the next President.

But, apparently during the debate, the Republican National Convention were sending rapid emails out in succession regarding things Obama was saying, talking points so to speak... I don't know any more than that.... But what they are going to hit him on, will be things they hit her on, very close with few differences...

And that is right, I remember ROSIE talking about the hospital... all funded from private sources!

 

[eclectics]

Do you think the last line did in fact put her ahead, momentum her way as the email indicated? I clearly didn't feel either of the things mentioned, so I think it's good to talk to someone who felt at least one of those things!

If you're asking me if I thought it was a defining moment in the campaign, then no. It did however show her speaking from her heart, as she did in NH, and when she does that, it is usually well recieved. Whether it will be any help in Texas or Ohio, I doubt it. But, if she continues to have these "moments" in a consistant genuine manner, then yes, it will help her numbers, I think. If it's back to the usual campaign trail speeches, then she won't have gained much. Just mho.

And I still say I got a hint of her perhaps opening the exit door just a crack. Again, just my take, and imho.

And, for the record, not something I wish would happen or take glee in. I like Hillary. I just happen to like Obama a bit more.

 

[JARNJ3]

No there were two separate sets of emails. One email came from Hillary's campaign manager saying that her last lines about the soldiers put her ahead, reigns in her hand and why she would be the next President.

But, apparently during the debate, the Republican National Convention were sending rapid emails out in succession regarding things Obama was saying, talking points so to speak... I don't know any more than that.... But what they are going to hit him on, will be things they hit her on, very close with few differences...

And that is right, I remember ROSIE talking about the hospital... all funded from private sources!

Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification.

Some of you are amazing - almost following every line said - every day...

Please remember - this is politics - a lot of things are exaggerated to make said candidate appear to be the best.

Isn't that why they call it "political theater?

Any way - have a good night - and thanks for not vilifying Hilllary tonight!

 

[chris1gill]

Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification.

Some of you are amazing - almost following every line said - every day...

Please remember - this is politics - a lot of things are exaggerated to make said candidate appear to be the best.

Isn't that why they call it "political theater?

Any way - have a good night - and thanks for not vilifying Hilllary tonight!

Some of us are just diehard politico's, maybe we're showing our age

There was no vilifying necessary....

Did anyone else hear what Obama & Clinton were discussing just before going on stage? The height of their Security Agents & how their Agents were using this time to buy cowboy boots Bit of humor....

 

[KikiFan]

I was watching the "people meter" on cnn for most of the debate. Hillary's number's shot way up during that last speech. I think she reached a lot of people. but who knows how it will go.

 

[chris1gill]

If you're asking me if I thought it was a defining moment in the campaign, then no. It did however show her speaking from her heart, as she did in NH, and when she does that, it is usually well recieved. Whether it will be any help in Texas or Ohio, I doubt it. But, if she continues to have these "moments" in a consistant genuine manner, then yes, it will help her numbers, I think. If it's back to the usual campaign trail speeches, then she won't have gained much. Just mho.

And I still say I got a hint of her perhaps opening the exit door just a crack. Again, just my take, and imho.

And, for the record, not something I wish would happen or take glee in. I like Hillary. I just happen to like Obama a bit more.

I think you might be right about her numbers & her showing a genuine consistent message... It'll be interesting to see what comes tomorrow....

KiKiFan, I saw that on the people meter....

The only thing I will say that I thought that really brought around an uncomfortable feeling, Clinton was asked on 3 occasions why she was saying she'd be ready on day one (alluding that Obama would not be), and why she felt that way.... On the third time the question was asked she answered in a pleasant manner... that was the only time I cringed during the debate.... well, besides when I thought I saw tears were about to flow, that just makes me uncomfortable personally...