The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[punkin]

Even though I like Hillary and will vote happily for her in November if she receives the nomination FAIRLY....I believe if the situation was reversed and it was Obama that needed Florida and Michigan to win we'd be hearing an awful lot from her about obeying the rules. Just because I like her it doesn't mean that I don't know who she'd operate.

OK. I thought that was exactly what I said. There is no "fair" way to decide this. Someone will be unhappy and screaming loudly no matter what happens. It is the DNC's fault for disenfranchising millions of people. There really is no way at this point to settle this fiasco equitably.

 

[Fitswimmer]

OK. I thought that was exactly what I said. There is no "fair" way to decide this. Someone will be unhappy and screaming loudly no matter what happens. It is the DNC's fault for disenfranchising millions of people. There really is no way at this point to settle this fiasco equitably.

It is the fault of the DNC and the only way for them to solve it is to find a solution that ticks off Hillary and Obama.

 

[eclectics]

Thanks for your reply eclectics. It's always so cut and dry with the reps being conservative and dems being liberals. I've never really given it much thought until recently. I really hope that we (as a country) can find a middle ground. America would be so much better if we could.

On that I agree wholeheartedly. Hopefully our next administration, whoever that might be, will be able to mend some fences.

 

[wvrevy]

I am amazed that you haven't been lynched yet in West-by-God-Virginny yet for holding unamerican views like that.

Yeah, my "huntin'" friends all think I'm nuts. But if they try too hard to argue against it, I just start lecturing them on what the second amendment actually meant in the context of the times, and that usually shuts 'em up.

It really depends on how those rules read. I've only been able to find parts of the rules online.

If Florida and Michigan lost their delegates due to changing the election date, then a redo wouldn't matter. I doubt there is a do over clause in the rules. So for a do over they'd need to amend the rules during the process and that's a big snakepit.

Either way they go, there will likely be lawsuits. Unfortunately for the voters of Florida and Michigan, the DNC's legal liability is a lot less if they follow the rules as written and I think that's the way it will go.

I honestly don't think Obama would go the "lawsuit" route, though I would fully support him if he did and the situation was as I mentioned earlier. Hillary, on the other hand...Well, I'll let one of her supporters speak to that, as I tend to think she would have a "win at all costs" attitude about it all.

There would only really be a problem if the DNC tried to force the states to hold legitimate elections to replace the illegitimate ones they already had. As long as they take the position of "You can hold them again, and we'll count the delegates, or not, and not", I don't think anyone would be too upset about the slight change in procedure. The simple fact is that nobody foresaw this being the close race that it is. It was supposed to be a coronation procedure, not a lingering battle. Things have changed - considerably - since those rules were agreed upon.

 

[robinb]

Thanks Mugg. Not sure if your message will be heard but I appreciate the effort. Intelligent discussion among like-minded individuals in a 'safe' haven is what I expected on this thread and its precursor. Personally I hate the whining and moaning about how bad the 'other' candidate is when that candidate is another Democrat. But no one person speaks for what this thread is or is not.

In the words of Jim Ward from the Stephanie Miller show: "Welcome to another episode of Democrats eating their own!"

Personally, I am sick and tired of it. I'd be up for a rousing chorus of "We Shall Overcome[SIZE=-1]" [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]but I'm an atheist.

[/SIZE]

 

[LuvDuke]

I reallly don't think this is Democrats eating their own. As it stands now, going forward without the Michigan and Florida primaries unfairly impacts no one.

We've got Obama supporters and we've got Clinton supporters, but the differences of opinion don't even come close the what the Republicans are doing to John McCain. Talk about eating your own.

 

[Planogirl]

I agree that it might be best to not count Florida and Michigan. However I still feel uneasy about ignoring the wishes of so many voters. It's really a mess.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

So does it mean I'm a 'real' liberal because I agree completely with what wvrevy said even after all I've said about blasting fellow libs? Or am I a flip flopper?

 

[punkin]

We've got Obama supporters and we've got Clinton supporters, but the differences of opinion don't even come close the what the Republicans are doing to John McCain. Talk about eating your own.

You are so right. The right wing nutjobs are really unhappy with him. What that will translate to in the polls is anyone's guess right now.

 

[eclectics]

I agree that it might be best to not count Florida and Michigan. However I still feel uneasy about ignoring the wishes of so many voters. It's really a mess.

Hopefully it will be a lesson learned. There is no fair way to fix this, imho.

 

[eclectics]

I reallly don't think this is Democrats eating their own. As it stands now, going forward without the Michigan and Florida primaries unfairly impacts no one.

We've got Obama supporters and we've got Clinton supporters, but the differences of opinion don't even come close the what the Republicans are doing to John McCain. Talk about eating your own.

I'm still getting the vibe that Huckabee might run as a third party candidate (perhaps on the Conservative line), especially if he does well in the next few primaries. I hope so. That will give us clear sailing if the Repubs are divided.

 

[Honu]

I'm still getting the vibe that Huckabee might run as a third party candidate (perhaps on the Conservative line), especially if he does well in the next few primaries. I hope so. That will give us clear sailing if the Repubs are divided.

That would be great. Hopefully, Nader won't do that to us.

 

[wvrevy]

That would be great. Hopefully, Nader won't do that to us.

Hopefully, people won't be gullible enough to vote for Nader, even if he does. He has zero chance of winning, and you help nobody and hurt the country by voting for him.

Nader people seriously annoyed me during the 2004 elections. Talk about people with no realistic view of politics. All they did was assure Bush another term.

 

[eclectics]

That would be great. Hopefully, Nader won't do that to us.

I think even his supporters finally figured out he wasn't much more than an egotistical crackpot.

 

[wvrevy]

If you haven't seen this, you need to. It's from the SC debate, and I think it goes a long way towards showing politics versus ideas. I'll let you figure out which is which. Obviously a few good shots from both sides, but the "...while you were a corporate lawyer with Wal-Mart" is a personal favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9F1t9GQzA

 

[Mugg Mann]

You are so right. The right wing nutjobs are really unhappy with him. What that will translate to in the polls is anyone's guess right now.

It's early.

They'll come around and not only vote for him, but vote for him in droves.

Just watch.

 

[wvrevy]

It's early.

They'll come around and not only vote for him, but vote for him in droves.

Just watch.

Frankly, I doubt it. I mean...we all said the same thing when we ended up with a candidate we weren't truly happy with the last time. "Oh, people will come out to support Kerry. After all...they know that if they don't, they'll just get four more years of George Bush."

How'd that turn out for us again?

The extreme right wing will not come out to support John McCain. They may come out to oppose our candidate, if we don't choose wisely.

And while I'm posting videos, could we maybe find a way to have a spouses debate? I was a big fan of Bill Clinton, but I think Michelle Obama might have a little somethin' for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jscnylbyE9c

 

[LuvDuke]

If you haven't seen this, you need to. It's from the SC debate, and I think it goes a long way towards showing politics versus ideas. I'll let you figure out which is which. Obviously a few good shots from both sides, but the "...while you were a corporate lawyer with Wal-Mart" is a personal favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9F1t9GQzA

What it shows to me is that Wolf Blitzer is a horse's *** who couldn't control the debate.

Although I will admit, Hillary's "we" as if she was the co-president is more than a little annoying and delusional.

I don't like Hillary Clinton for a variety of reasons. None of those reasons would prevent me from voting for her if she is the nominee. She would make a fine president. I doubt if she'd do the harm this country that another 4 years of a Republican in the WH would do. She has my vote.

However, I'm rolling the dice with Barak Obama. I'm willing to take the chance. Barak Obama is a break with the past. I say we do just that.

Hillary Clinton would be the safe choice. I think it's time we start acting like a can-do country again and stop playing it safe.

The Founding Fathers rolled the dice in 1776 and it's time we did that again.

 

[eclectics]

However, I'm rolling the dice with Barak Obama. I'm willing to take the chance. Barak Obama is a break with the past. I say we do just that.

Hillary Clinton would be the safe choice. I think it's time we start acting like a can-do country again and stop playing it safe.

The Founding Fathers rolled the dice in 1776 and it's time we did that again.

ITA. Although I have no qualms supporting Hillary, I'd love to see this country shake off the cobwebs. Bill tried to do it in '92, but maybe we just weren't ready. I believe we are now.

 

[punkin]

It's early.

They'll come around and not only vote for him, but vote for him in droves.

Just watch.

What it shows to me is that Wolf Blitzer is a horse's *** who couldn't control the debate.

I hated them at that debate. It made both of them look like unruly children on a playground. Disgusting. However, they have both done better since and both are looking much more presidential now.