The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[MassJester]

I too would be displeased if the Democratic Party tried to push Hillary to throw in the towel too soon. I believe that they owe her supporters the courtesy of seeing this through.

The party will not push her out if she fails to win on Tuesday. But fundraising and super delegate support will be come problematic. The party doesn't control who the super delegates pledge to, and many will want to be associated with the side they believe will win.

 

[eclectics]

Anyone else notice the proliferation of the "NOBOMA 08" in folk's signatures? Isn't it a shame that they lack any sort of enthusiasm whatsoever for their own candidate and they have no other choice but to go negative.

I guess we're lucky we have two candidates that bring out so much loyalty and pride and enthusiasm. I'd still be proud to vote for either one of them. We don't need an "anti" McCain bumper sticker. We actually LIKE the candidates we have.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Anyone else notice the proliferation of the "NOBOMA 08" in folk's signatures? Isn't it a shame that they lack any sort of enthusiasm whatsoever for their own candidate and they have no other choice but to go negative.

I guess we're lucky we have two candidates that bring out so much loyalty and pride and enthusiasm. I'd still be proud to vote for either one of them. We don't need an "anti" McCain bumper sticker. We actually LIKE the candidates we have.

I was thinking that same thing!

 

[punkin]

Well personally I don't think any candidate has the right to demand that another drop out. However, I would like to point out a difference. Had Obama lost 12 in a row he would have been a very long way behind HC. On the other hand Hillary lost 12 and she's still within 100 delegates. Even with the loses she's suffered she's still within striking distance. It doesn't make sense for her to drop out.

And for myself, if you expect me to suck it up later and vote for Obama (if he gets the nom) - then you better let my candidate finish to the bitter end. Because thats the only hope you've got of me, and a lot of other Hillary supporters, getting behind Obama.



We really don't. There is plenty of time after the convention. I will tell you this as a Hillary supporter, if I feel that the Dem Party tries in anyway to short circut her campaign for the sake of "convenience" - they will not get my vote in the fall. It's that simple. I maybe a dem but I've got a memory like an elephant. I still haven't forgiven Gore for giving up in 2000. I appreciate Hillary for continuing to slug it out.

FYI the quote you're upset about wasn't made by Hillary but Stenheim

You have summed up my feeling quite clearly.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The party will not push her out if she fails to win on Tuesday. But fundraising and super delegate support will be come problematic. The party doesn't control who the super delegates pledge to, and many will want to be associated with the side they believe will win.

I think this is the more likely scenario.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Anyone else notice the proliferation of the "NOBOMA 08" in folk's signatures? Isn't it a shame that they lack any sort of enthusiasm whatsoever for their own candidate and they have no other choice but to go negative.

I guess we're lucky we have two candidates that bring out so much loyalty and pride and enthusiasm. I'd still be proud to vote for either one of them. We don't need an "anti" McCain bumper sticker. We actually LIKE the candidates we have.

I want to ask those with 'anti' stickers who and what they're actually 'pro'.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Something I've been pondering all morning -

A lot of the negatives I hear about raising taxes or more taxes tend to come from individuals who are self-employed. I know for myself as a w2 employee my check increased $10.00 a month with the tax cuts - not exactly something that is going to make or break the bank. But I understand for self-employed individuals that when taxes go up it does hit them harder, they not only pay their own taxes, but the taxes of their employees as well.

Yet they feel entitled to lower taxes because they own their own business and therefore have great expesnes. But isn't that their choice? I mean for a crowd that is so big on personal responsibility shouldn't the knowledge of knowing you are going to have these types of expenses be something you plan for when you open your own business? Should taxes stay low and the countries debt continue to go up in order to help out this one class of individuals? I mean - they could choose to be a W2 employee and not have to pay all those taxes.......

Of course - I feel the same way about entitlement programs - giving money to those who are to lazy to work. In my opinion welfare, and assistance programs should be like unemployment - you've got to show some iniative that you are trying to find work in order to continue receiving.

So who's choices are more entitled? Those who choose to be self-employed or those who can't make ends meat and trying (I'm adding the qualifier as I already stated how I feel about lazy people).

~Amanda

 

[Honu]

And for myself, if you expect me to suck it up later and vote for Obama (if he gets the nom) - then you better let my candidate finish to the bitter end. Because thats the only hope you've got of me, and a lot of other Hillary supporters, getting behind Obama.

What's with the hostility? Sorry, but I just don't get the threats.

 

[punkin]

What's with the hostility? Sorry, but I just don't get the threats.

It is not hostility. Obama supporters need to keep in mind that the majority of their votes need to come from former Clinton supporters if he makes it to the general election. Of course, Clinton supporters have to be mindful of the same thing. We cannot afford to alienate the other candidate's supporters or we are looking at a McCain presidency.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

It is not hostility. Obama supporters need to keep in mind that the majority of their votes need to come from former Clinton supporters if he makes it to the general election. Of course, Clinton supporters have to be mindful of the same thing. We cannot afford to alienate the other candidate's supporters or we are looking at a McCain presidency.

Now that's a scary thought. Four more wars - anyone?

 

[palmtreegirl]

Anyone else notice the proliferation of the "NOBOMA 08" in folk's signatures? Isn't it a shame that they lack any sort of enthusiasm whatsoever for their own candidate and they have no other choice but to go negative.

I guess we're lucky we have two candidates that bring out so much loyalty and pride and enthusiasm. I'd still be proud to vote for either one of them. We don't need an "anti" McCain bumper sticker. We actually LIKE the candidates we have.

It actually reminds me of the last election. There were so many people(myself included) who were anyone but Bush but few who really liked Kerry and we know how well that worked out.

 

[KikiFan]

What's with the hostility? Sorry, but I just don't get the threats.

This wasn't hostility. It was frustration and I apoligize if it came across as hostile.

Maybe you can look at this from my point of view. Almost every time I've come on this thread I see *some* die hard Obama fans calling for my candidate to concede. We've even had one of your's come to our thread to magnanimously offer condolences on our candidates defeat.

But you seem to overlook that your candidate has not gotten the required number of delegates to end this.

I am every bit as passionate about my candidate as you are about yours. So much so, I'll be standing by the side of the road today waving signs even though it will likely be 32 and snowing today. (A big deal in Dallas we don't do snow!) I haven't given up, my candidate hasn't given up, and most of all your candidate hasn't won yet.

So yes, it frustrates the heck out of me that *some* Obama supporters think CLinton and all her supporters should call it quits and play dead for Obama. My fears about the future of womens rights will likely lead me to vote against McCain no matter who the Dem Nom is. But right now I'm still fighting for the candidate that I believe in 110% Asking me to just give in and support Obama is insulting imo.

Again I do apologize if you percieved my response to be hostile. It really wasn't intended that way.

 

[Laura]

This wasn't hostility. It was frustration and I apoligize if it came across as hostile.

Maybe you can look at this from my point of view. Almost every time I've come on this thread I see *some* die hard Obama fans calling for my candidate to concede. We've even had one of your's come to our thread to magnanimously offer condolences on our candidates defeat.

But you seem to overlook that your candidate has not gotten the required number of delegates to end this.

I am every bit as passionate about my candidate as you are about yours. So much so, I'll be standing by the side of the road today waving signs even though it will likely be 32 and snowing today. (A big deal in Dallas we don't do snow!) I haven't given up, my candidate hasn't given up, and most of all your candidate hasn't won yet.

So yes, it frustrates the heck out of me that *some* Obama supporters think CLinton and all her supporters should call it quits and play dead for Obama. My fears about the future of womens rights will likely lead me to vote against McCain no matter who the Dem Nom is. But right now I'm still fighting for the candidate that I believe in 110% Asking me to just give in and support Obama is insulting imo.

Again I do apologize if you percieved my response to be hostile. It really wasn't intended that way.

I hope that if things go Obama's way, you will vote for him in November. I'm sure he will be happy to have Clinton's supporters on board with him and will do his best to build bridges. He'll need all of us Democrat voters this fall. And the same would go for Clinton if the tables were turned.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

It actually reminds me of the last election. There were so many people(myself included) who were anyone but Bush but few who really liked Kerry and we know how well that worked out.

Nice thing is, I don't know of one Dem who openly hated Kerry as much as a majority of the Republican base hates McCain. McCain's asking Dittoheads across America to look the other way on his stand on immigration, campaign-finance reform, global warming, oil drilling in Alaska, stem-cell research, Gitmo and his original stance on the Bush tax cuts. IMO, that just ain't gonna happen. Contrary to what they're saying over on the dark side, it's still high fives all around over here, regardless of whether or nominee is Hill or Barack.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Nice thing is, I don't know of one Dem who openly hated Kerry as much as a majority of the Republican base hates McCain. McCain's asking Dittoheads across America to look the other way on his stand on immigration, campaign-finance reform, global warming, oil drilling in Alaska, stem-cell research, Gitmo and his original stance on the Bush tax cuts. IMO, that just ain't gonna happen. Contrary to what they're saying over on the dark side, it's still high fives all around over here, regardless of whether or nominee is Hill or Barack.

He was also the one who called some of their favorite evangelists "agents of Intolerance" only a few short years ago. Of course now he finds one with more rude things to say about Catholics, Muslims, Women and LGBT people and doesn't even renounce it!

 

[chobie]

He was also the one who called some of their favorite evangelists "agents of Intolerance" only a few short years ago. Of course now he finds one with more rude things to say about Catholics, Muslims, Women and LGBT people and doesn't even renounce it!

Right. And has McCain "rejected and renounced" said bigot yet, and if not why isn't the media all over him like they were Obama?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Right. And has McCain "rejected and renounced" said bigot yet, and if not why isn't the media all over him like they were Obama?

Not that I could see on Google anywhere...

 

[LuvDuke]

I don't care which Democrat runs in November, I'll vote for them and I suspect most Democrats feel the same way.

Having said that, Hillary Clinton has lost 11 primaries in a row. Her chance of sewing up enough non-super delegates to get the party's nomination is slim to none. But, she isn't going to throw in the towel. Fine and dandy.

So, how does she plan to get the nomination? Is she going to go to court to count the Michigan/Florida results even though she agreed not to? Does she plan to strong arm the super-delegates who are deserting her in droves? Does she plan to contest the setup of the Texas primary because the results weren't what she expected a year ago when she agreed to the ground rules?

It's all well and good to have "spunk". Before someone casts another vote for Clinton, they're entitled to know how she plans to win the nomination.

 

[lilyv]

I don't care which Democrat runs in November, I'll vote for them and I suspect most Democrats feel the same way.

Having said that, Hillary Clinton has lost 11 primaries in a row. Her chance of sewing up enough non-super delegates to get the party's nomination is slim to none. But, she isn't going to throw in the towel. Fine and dandy.

So, how does she plan to get the nomination? Is she going to go to court to count the Michigan/Florida results even though she agreed not to? Does she plan to strong arm the super-delegates who are deserting her in droves? Does she plan to contest the setup of the Texas primary because the results weren't what she expected a year ago when she agreed to the ground rules?

It's all well and good to have "spunk". Before someone casts another vote for Clinton, they're entitled to know how she plans to win the nomination.

This has been my question for the last month. Spunk is fine, but it may also be wasting precious time, especially if there's a court battle planned. (11 in a row counts in my book...but I understand that those victories seem to be considered "wrong", "meaningless", and "irrelevant" because votes in those particular states don't matter...I admit, the logic of this escapes me.)

 

[DISUNC]

This has been my question for the last month. Spunk is fine, but it may also be wasting precious time, especially if there's a court battle planned. (11 in a row counts in my book...but I understand that those victories seem to be considered "wrong", "meaningless", and "irrelevant" because votes in those particular states don't matter...I admit, the logic of this escapes me.)

As is I cant understand the logic that winning anything 11 out of 50 makes you automatically the winner!