The FP+ Gripe

[Reddog1134]

I know this is true..... Fast Pass or No Fast Pass or Fast Pass+ - we're going to have a BLAST at WDW in 2 weeks!

Best post so far.

You win the thread.

 

[bcrook]

I know this is true..... Fast Pass or No Fast Pass or Fast Pass+ - we're going to have a BLAST at WDW in 2 weeks!

My last trip, I stayed at Kidani, spent all day at the pool, had some great meals, watched the fireworks from the poly beach. Visited SeaWorld. And never went in the Parks. I saved a truckload of money and had a great time.

 

[jerivera]

But that's your Burden of Proof.

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed"

Basically you're saying it's true because I can't prove that it's not true.

To take that a step further, neither viewpoint can be proven as correct/true, because the arguments each uses are all based on supposition/conjecture.

Which is why it's sort of funny how far everyone is taking the + or - arguments, considering that at the end of the day, neither group will likely be correct.

At this point, everyone's just guessing.

Anyway, if anyone thought anything I typed was insulting, my bad. It was not intentional.

 

[rt2dz]

I am reserving final judgement until it fully rolls out and experiments have been done to find out how to best work the system. It's part of the reason we were skipping 2013, since it was supposed to roll out early 2013. I have quite a few concerns.

1) I am not an über planner. Not my thing. I don't want my days scheduled out to a T. Actually, I CAN'T. I have a child on the spectrum. You never know what you are going to get with Autism. All may be going well, then BOOM! The switch flips and your day is over, or at let detoured. I don't want to lose our chance to ride headliners because we can no longer use our scheduled FP+. I need flexibility and I'm not sure it's going to be there. We only like to make loose plans. We barely even make ADRs anymore.

2) We like to hop. Some times it's good to take that change of pace. Sometimes that is what it takes to keep my ASD son on track. Sometimes, that is the best way to take advantage of crowd control. Sometimes that is the only way to fit In preferred attractions. I don't want to be limited in one park because I can only chose FPs for one park per day.

3) 60 days is far out. How do I know something won't change that will require me to change what plans I do have? Weather? Autism? Illness? Refurbishments? Ride failures? Etc, etc. I know I don't need to participate. I know I can change selections. BUT, I don't want to spend hours in line. I remember that. Not fun. It would take us 1.5-2 days to get MK completed once during spring break. And, that was at a *much* lower cost. AND, switching depends on availability. I'm guessing, it will be slim pickings, if any. ADRs leads us to believe that is a strong possibility, that and walk up FP run out early for certain rides. FP tickets (classic or +) will be limited.

4) The rumored +10 scares me too. That means on day one, the first chance I have to book TSMM, thousands and thousands of others have been booking for 10 days already. What if my ADRs, what few I do book, conflict. I now have to chose between a favorite ride or a meal that my kids want. Just the kind of choices that make my vacation great and enjoyable to plan. Now, I have to balance and rearrange everything else around. Oh what joy!

5) There is no word on how this effects those that stay offsite. We don't stay onsite anymore every trip. Just no value in it for a large family. It might be very limiting. What, if any, access will I have? And what about the trips I book "last minute"? Especially when I can now only travel at Thanksgiving, spring break or summer. Summer will not happen though--too hot.

6) I'm worried about how it is based on tickets. I buy the best deal. I have a trip planned for January 2014. Right now I have 5 day tickets. I plan on upgrading 2 days when I get there. Current tests will say I can only schedule 5 days of FP+, but I'd need 7--especially arrival and departure day. Sometimes I pick tickets up from a reseller at their will call center if I buy last minute. We often upgrade. We frequently have APs, but with price changes, I don't buy APs for those needing child tickets. How does that then work? So, so, so many potential problems and complications.

7) it appears to be limiting. I don't like the limit of 3, or even 4 in some cases. We rarely use less than 6 per day. I also don't like that I can only chose 1 per ride. My kids don't ride ToT or RNRC for various reasons. However, they love TSMM. That is where we would want all 3 FP+, or at least the 2 we normally snag. Star Tours doesn't really require a FP, at least not now. And it's not like you can trade with people. DH could care less if he rides BTMRR. So, my littlest one who doesn't ride and DHs FP usually get used by my older 2 kids for an extra ride. Lots of band switching going on. And confusion/lost possibilities.

8.) I don't like that it is so paperless dependent. I'm worried about needing to depend on my phone or a kiosk that will possibly (I'm thinking most likely) have long lines. There is battery conservation/charging issues and dependence on the app working correctly, which in my experience, generally doesn't. Disney doesn't have great IT, and in the crowded times, it goes slow or crashes. But, time will tell. Still concerned though. I hate that it is all tied to magic bands, which reports say are uncomfortable. I have 2 or 3 kids I'm pretty sure won't wear them. I'm scared they'll be lost and we won't know it right away and will miss a FP window getting it fixed. My ASD son chews when he gets stressed; it's his stim. One of his "chew toys" is a plastic band. I have a feeling this could end up being destroyed.

Lots of unknowns to be concerned about. All from EDUCATED guesses and experiences. Time will tell, but... And remember, for this to be good for Disney as a for-profit business, it must also be good for its customers. If it is not win-win, it will end up being lose-lose.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[BuckeyeBama]

And remember, for this to be good for Disney as a for-profit business, it must also be good for its customers. If it is not win-win, it will end up being lose-lose.

This is a broad statement, but it fails to take into account that many would still come to WDW even if the FP system were abolished altogether. By many, I mean tens of millions. They have established their customer base. Yes, they could lose that customer base, but not based on something like this.

They are investing billions of dollars in this system. Whether we like it or hate it, they are going to implement it.

 

[mbrittb00]

But that's your Burden of Proof.

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed"

Basically you're saying it's true because I can't prove that it's not true.

In that case, I love FP+ and it is going to be a wonderful system.

The truth of the matter is that neither of us can prove anything with the avaliable information.

And the concerns that have been voiced are still legitimate concerns.

 

[Seeker615]

I hate the idea of FP+, plain and simple.

I don't use the dining plan because I am not a VACATION planner outside knowing what dates I am going on VACATION.

We sometimes choose a park based on which bus shows up at the resort first.

I have a schedule for my work life, not my VACATION time.

FP+ is not at all conducive to a relaxing VACATION. And yes, it is possible to just chill at WDW while still taking in many attractions and using the FP system as is. We do it all the time.

As a pp stated, the issue for me is not the magic bands or even MDE, although the website needs a major overhaul. It is simply that another level of spontaneity has been taken from guests. We have come to terms with missing out on TS because, for some weird reason, I have no idea what I will want to eat at 1pm on October 20, 2013. And if I did manage to figure that out 6 months in advance, I'd be in a major pickle if that particular park bus didn't show up first to the resort that morning.

Thank you! You read my mind! This is exactly how I feel. I go on vacation to enjoy and relax. Yes I plan but I don't want my days scheduled. I feel like I will need a whistle, a megaphone and my smart phone out to bark orders at the family.

"okay kids we now have to proceed to Space Mountain and after that we need to run over to Splash Mountain to make our scheduled ride time." 'What? You need to go to the bathroom?" "That is not scheduled till 2pm!"

 

[Reddog1134]

And the concerns that have been voiced are still legitimate concerns.

And they should be treated as legitimate concerns and not an impending doom.

For the record, my concern with FP+ is picking FPs for a ride that might not need one. And I'm not referring to things like Philharmagic or Hall of Presidents. I mean "legitimate" FP attractions. If I want to ride Space Mountain, I don't grab a FP. I see how long the line is and make an informed decision about getting a FP. I have no problem saying "I want to ride Space Mountain 60 days from now at 2pm". But what if I get there and there's a 10 minute wait because it just reopened and now it's too late to switch my FP+ to BTMRR?

 

[mbrittb00]

And they should be treated as legitimate concerns and not an impending doom.

For the record, my concern with FP+ is picking FPs for a ride that might not need one. And I'm not referring to things like Philharmagic or Hall of Presidents. I mean "legitimate" FP attractions. If I want to ride Space Mountain, I don't grab a FP. I see how long the line is and make an informed decision about getting a FP. I have no problem saying "I want to ride Space Mountain 60 days from now at 2pm". But what if I get there and there's a 10 minute wait because it just reopened and now it's too late to switch my FP+ to BTMRR?

I know there are a few people that are all doom and gloom about this, I happen to not be one of them. I'll admit early on I was extremly concerned about this as it was reported / rumored to be only for onsite guests and that the benefits would be tiered based on where you stayed. I don't recal anyone on THIS particular thread preaching that doom and gloom. If they do then by all means call them out.

That all said, I do see various potential issues. Some of which will effect me (mainly how the 3 FP+ can be distributed and if it is avaliable to offsite guests) others wont. These issues are valid concerns that aren't being addressed/answered. Probably because the only people who can address them is Disney themselves, and they won't. People bring them here for discusison for various reasons. One because they hope that Disney actually monitors these pages (and they would be foolish not to) and thus take these concerns into consideration. (This MAY be the reason for the change to allowing the FP+ selections to be for any attraction rather than putting them into three different tiers. Maybe not.). Another would be that they want to see if other people have the same concerns and possibly find / piece together some info that either confirms or refutes those concerns.

 

[DougEMG]

What it comes down to is will the new system allow me to do more attractions than before or less. If it is more than I'll love it. If it is less than that means more waiting in lines (something I really hate) and less value for the price of a ticket. If the value is reduced enough then other vacation options become more attractive.

I'm a big user of FP and I suspect that the published limitations around FP+ are going to reduce the number of attractions I'll get to do.

 

[livingthedream]

Who is kind of surprised when they see people who LOVE to plan their Disney Vacations (down to the minute) gripe about pre-planning their FP+?

I would almost think if I enjoyed planning out my WDW vacations that much, I would LOVE the ability to book FP+ 2 months in advance!

I would like to genuinely address the comments made by the OP in his/her original post. I think there may be a misperception out there to what it means to "plan".

First, I admit I am an uber planner and, in fact, I do make a touring plan right down to the last minute. A huge part of my planning relates to research. I like to find out these things (and more...):
- which attractions I want to enjoy on this trip
- where the attractions are in the park
- which parks are predicted to be the busiest on each day I am there
- the length of time it takes to do each attraction (e.g. 5 min, 10 min, 20 min)
- how long it takes to get from Attraction A to Attraction B
- how long the anticipated wait times are for an attraction during the height of the day (busiest time at the park)
- what the show times are for my favourite shows when I am going to be there
Etc.

Then I pick a park day, decide which attraction I want to do first, wait in line for it, enjoy it, and then move on to the next attraction.

Despite all my planning, though, I realize there are things that you just can't plan for. This is where I think a lot of people have a different definition of "planner" than I do. For me, planners are people who do really detailed research so they can adapt their plans very easily. They can do this because they can make informed choices in "real-time" - in other words, right there in a Disney park based on the information around them "right now".

There are many, many reasons why I have had to adapt plans and I did it easily because I had done my homework. For example:
"Uh oh! Splash Mountain is down (again), so instead we better pull fastpasses for ------insert name of attraction here-----, so we can still do everything else we want to do today. This way we will still have time to come back later today to see if we can ride it then."
"Hmmmmm. There seem to be more people in this park than the crowd calendars predicted. Let's go to another park and see all the attractions we planned to see today instead of tomorrow!"
"Wow! Look at that fastpass line! They must have had a breakdown earlier and so everyone is coming back now. I don't want to stand in that line, so let's go over to XXXXland and do the things there, and we'll pull another fastpass and come back here later".
"My son was coughing last night, and he woke up with a fever this morning. Am I going to panic that I can't do my day's plan? No. We built contingency into our plan. We'll make today our pool day, let him rest, and hopefully tomorrow he will be up for a full, or adapted, day tomorrow"
"My daughter just absolutely refuses to go on Tower of Terror. She did it last trip, and said she wanted to this trip, but now she is afraid. Ok, gang, let's split up our group and you two go ahead and have a snack, you two go in the singles line for RockNRoller Coaster, and we'll ride the Tower of Terror during our fastpass times."

In each of these instances above, we had the flexibility to adapt our plans to suit what was happening to us in the moment. We could watch where the crowds were building and chose to go the other direction, or we could grab a fastpass for Kali because it turned out to be a much hotter day than predicted so it was the most popular ride in AK that day (but it wouldn't be on a cool wet day.) With the current fastpass system you have the chance to make an informed decision based on current conditions.

With the limited amount of information that is currently available about FP+, and yes I've done my research , I am going to have to make choices for things in a vacuum - in other words, I am not going to be able to adapt, or be flexible with my plans. I am going to have to stick to the original "down to the minute" plan I made, and in my opinion that defeats the purpose.

I know some people here may view the term "planning flexibility" as an oxymoron, but having the knowledge lets you make an informed decision on the fly. That's how I plan.

Now I agree with the OP 100% that we shouldn't judge the system until it is completely unveiled, but based on what literature is out there, and direct reports from those who have been tested so far, I just can't support having to select fastpasses in advance. Can I still have some flexibility to select FP+ in the parks the day of? That's the million dollar question. I will reserve my final judgment until we know this for a fact.

Up to now, though, I am NOT a fan. Now please remember this is a discussion forum where everyone can share their perspectives. I appreciate reading other people's thoughts, and I will thank you in advance for respecting my perspective.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

You didn't miss it. It wasn't there. But it's a lot more fun to make up responses to reply to.

I'm reading this as a sarcastic response to my OP. I don't expect anyone to read all the threads on this topic but there are some that certainly involve 'hating' FP+ and mentions of changing travel plans. There is a post on page 2 of this very thread that starts with 'I hate the idea of FP+, plain and simple.'

Now I apologize if you have taken my OP personally. I can't help but think that I struck a chord on a personal level. I respect your passion for disney and your desire to keep it a place you enjoy. I hope you find the new FP to be less painful than you fear.

 

[mbrittb00]

I'm reading this as a sarcastic response to my OP. I don't expect anyone to read all the threads on this topic but there are some that certainly involve 'hating' FP+ and mentions of changing travel plans. There is a post on page 2 of this very thread that starts with 'I hate the idea of FP+, plain and simple.'

Now I apologize if you have taken my OP personally. I can't help but think that I struck a chord on a personal level. I respect your passion for disney and your desire to keep it a place you enjoy. I hope you find the new FP to be less painful than you fear.

I went back through page 2 of this thread and found the post that I think you are refering to. If you read the entire thread then you have to agree that based on the way they tour the parks or vacation in general, and the way most people feel this system will work, it will only make their experiance worse. About the only two things I could see improving it for them would be 1) cut the stand-by lines in 1/2 or less) or 2) make a significant portion (i.e. half) of FPs avalible for each ride available once you get in the parks.

 

[ParrotBill]

Although people around me at work and home would call me an uber-planner, by DIS standards I am average I think. We like to hop - we have been to WDW 50+ times.

I plan many of my meals and get ADRs, but want to be flexible to make changes the day I get there. So I hate it when free dining has booked everyone up solid.

I make a list of things we want to do, and a daily schedule of park hours, extra magic hours, and times for performances, parades, etc. We try to make sure we won't miss something important to us.

I try to make sure dining times do not conflict with shows or parades we want to see.

What I LIKE about Magicbands and FP+ without having experienced it:
- Easy to use for FP, room key, purchases
- Expansion to shows, character greetings
- Ability to plan ahead

What I DISLIKE, based on incomplete knowledge of total plan so far:
- Limit of 2 per day
- Having to call every day for my trip to get the next day's FP
- Extreme advance competition for the best FP+ (expecting half will not actually show up)
- If there are additional ones made available once to are there, expectign they will be for It's A Bug's Life and Dumbo
- One park per day? c'mon
- Tiers and one per tier?
- How will I keep ride windows from colliding with meal times and weather?
- Don't want to wear it on my wrist and get sweaty. So I will have to fish it out every time I need to use it.
- Don't like extreme data collection done about me without consent and a benefit. How about you make a loyalty program for all the money I spend there and throw me a free refillable mug with even more RFID? LOL
- Concerned that posted standby times will become inaccurate, and fastpass lines will grow longer

I like the present FP system - I use it as I am there to the best of what's available at the time. It works.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I went back through page 2 of this thread and found the post that I think you are refering to. If you read the entire thread then you have to agree that based on the way they tour the parks or vacation in general, and the way most people feel this system will work, it will only make their experiance worse. About the only two things I could see improving it for them would be 1) cut the stand-by lines in 1/2 or less) or 2) make a significant portion (i.e. half) of FPs avalible for each ride available once you get in the parks.

I agree, but I wasn't looking to debate whether FP+ was good for a particular DisBoard member, just pointing out that some have declared their 'hate'. I was also apologizing if my 'make stuff up' phrase personally offended.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I know this is true..... Fast Pass or No Fast Pass or Fast Pass+ - we're going to have a BLAST at WDW in 2 weeks!

And they should be treated as legitimate concerns and not an impending doom.

Bingo. Not everyone with concerns is foreseeing impending doom... or a debacle... or a catastrophe... SOME are, but not all.

I've had some nice discussions with people who brought up concerns - some of which I share - some I don't. I just don't get drawing conclusions yet based upon limited official info and conjecture.

 

[Tara8595]

This statement on the Disney website FP+ FAQ (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/rides-without-fast-pass-plus/) concerns me:

"If you are not FastPass+ eligible, you are still eligible to use FASTPASS service. All FASTPASS tickets are subject to availability and are distributed on a first-come, first-serve basis."

Well, heck, I just found out today (32 days out) that I am eligible, and that's because I happened to login today. I didn't get an email or other notice. So it asked me to link my passes, so I did. So now I guess I'm eligible.

I sure as heck hope that doesn't mean that I can't use regular FP for my trip in August, because I've looked at my FP options. Toy Story Mania at 9pm? I have a 6 year old for criminy, that isn't going to work. Safari at 2pm? NO - I have a Tusker House reservation at 1pm, nope. Fantasmic at 9:30pm? NO - as I said, I have a 6-year old. Only the crappiest times are offered to me for any FP+ plans, so I just hit "CANCEL" and am hoping for the best once we arrive.

And if this new system does come to fruition in this way, how many people are going to fork out extra money for a park hopper, when hopping becomes actually less helpful? Already I know now with new Fantasmic tiers, during busy season I'll have to be there in the morning to get an FP to get in - unless FP+ folks take them all. Ugh.

Mug wars, now this.

 

[doggydoc]

This statement on the Disney website FP+ FAQ (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/rides-without-fast-pass-plus/) concerns me:

"If you are not FastPass+ eligible, you are still eligible to use FASTPASS service. All FASTPASS tickets are subject to availability and are distributed on a first-come, first-serve basis."

Well, heck, I just found out today (32 days out) that I am eligible, and that's because I happened to login today. I didn't get an email or other notice. So it asked me to link my passes, so I did. So now I guess I'm eligible.

I sure as heck hope that doesn't mean that I can't use regular FP for my trip in August, because I've looked at my FP options. Toy Story Mania at 9pm? I have a 6 year old for criminy, that isn't going to work. Safari at 2pm? NO - I have a Tusker House reservation at 1pm, nope. Fantasmic at 9:30pm? NO - as I said, I have a 6-year old. Only the crappiest times are offered to me for any FP+ plans, so I just hit "CANCEL" and am hoping for the best once we arrive.

This is the second thread in as many days I have read where the poster was unable to get any FP+ reservations that fit their schedule. This is a highly limited test of the program and the those on here are a very small sample of that small slice.

 

[mbrittb00]

This is the second thread in as many days I have read where the poster was unable to get any FP+ reservations that fit their schedule. This is a highly limited test of the program and the those on here are a very small sample of that small slice.

I would also like to add that in addition to being a very small sample, you are looking at near 100% parcitipcation. Not sure what the participation in FP+ will be once it goes live, but safe to say something less than 100%.

One conclusion that I think it safe to draw is the early you can make your FP+ selections the better.

 

[Reddog1134]

One conclusion that I think it safe to draw is the early you can make your FP+ selections the better.

Do you mean the opening up the selection window earlier is better? Or making your selections earlier is better?