The FP+ Gripe

[BuckeyeBama]

hyperbole...much

No one is being deprived of an FP+. Any more than those before that were "disenfranchised" because they got to the park late and were "deprived" of an opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. But i see you werent worried about those folks being "disenfranchised" in the past...now were you...nor would you use that word to describe them...

so try again...

You seem to want to attack people who disagree with you, so I'll just move on. Have a nice day.

 

[mbrittb00]

Perfect!


The trouble with this is that the crowded days are likely to be the difficult days. People often comment that the idea is that you can change your fastpasses as necessary but that will of course depend on crowds and how involved they are. We used kiosks to make dining reservations at one time and many locations sold out rapidly. People do like to line up at what they see as an attraction. Many treated the dining kiosks as an attraction (and they were pretty cool.)

I also want to comment on this notion of chastising people for discussing the possible negatives of this new system. I have seen a few that are perhaps overly down on FP+ however most people seem to be voicing legitimate concerns. I also thought that forums were created for the opportunity to discuss such things. Of course we could all be super positive about this and sit around and praise it but that would make for a pretty dull discussion.

But if you give people an extra FP+ selection (or two) to one of the historically less crowded parks (i.e. MK on Tuesday) that would encourage some people to go to that park rather than the more crowded parks thus evening out the crowds somewhat. In order to be effective it would probably have to be made avaliable 60 days out when the other FP+ selections are being booked.

 

[jerivera]

Attendance at WDW exceeds 45 million annually. There are 446 thousand members of the DIS Boards. There are probably 100??? people posting constantly about FP+ and many of them are extremely negative about a system that is still in testing and which they've never used.

To say that this is a representative sample is nothing less than hilarious. If you asked 10,000 people on the street about FP+ the common response would be HUH?

Things are being blown WAY out of proportion. It is actually good for a chuckle.

Will I like FP+? I don't know. Ask me after I've sampled it.

OH NO!!!

A logical, reasonable, rational statement that tends towards sanity vs random flaming of a process whose end result is still unknown, in testing phase/pilot mode, and for which what is known is captured via isolated singleton accounts of the early testing phases!!! AAARGH!!! IT BUUUURNS!!!!

 

[mbrittb00]

hyperbole...much

No one is being deprived of an FP+. Any more than those before that were "disenfranchised" because they got to the park late and were "deprived" of an opportunity to get a FP for TSMM. But i see you werent worried about those folks being "disenfranchised" in the past...now were you...nor would you use that word to describe them...

so try again...

I get your point, you have to admit that this is a bit differnet. Someone that won't wake up 3 hours earlier and someone that won't (or can't) plan their vacation to the last detail 2+ months in advance are two VERY different things.

 

[doggydoc]

OH NO!!!

A logical, reasonable, rational statement that tends towards sanity vs random flaming of a process whose end result is still unknown, in testing phase/pilot mode, and for which what is known is captured via isolated singleton accounts of the early testing phases!!! AAARGH!!! IT BUUUURNS!!!!

You know I find it very telling that, with few exceptions, the PRO FP+ comments aren't about how the system will be a benefit but are directed at ridiculing and being condescending to those that are against it. Why are those in favor of FP+ so upset with those who are not? And why can't they seem to keep their comments directed at their reasoning WHY they like it? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE THREADS GET CLOSED!

If you like FP+, great. State why. Those that don't are free to do the same. Why insult and make fun of peoples opinions?

 

[mbrittb00]

OH NO!!!

A logical, reasonable, rational statement that tends towards sanity vs random flaming of a process whose end result is still unknown, in testing phase/pilot mode, and for which what is known is captured via isolated singleton accounts of the early testing phases!!! AAARGH!!! IT BUUUURNS!!!!

No one is suggesting that we here on the Dis Boards are a representative sample. However we here on the Dis Boards are probably more experinaced in WDW and as such can see potential issues easier than others do. It is true that we don't have all of the fact or details, but from what is avaliable there are potential issues and gripes, the discussion of which is what a forum is all about. People who have such gripes/complaints/concerns/issues, have as much right to voice them as those who think Disney can do no wrong. If you don't want to be part of the disucssion, don't. No one is forcing you to read any of this. However it is very childish behavior when people jump into a discussion and start attacking, or putting down, or trying to belittle the people who are expressing legitimate concerns. I have seen far to many good friendly discussions (several on this very topic) ruined by such behavior.

I wish we could all just be adults and have an honest discussion about the issues/concerns.

 

[Reddog1134]

You know I find it very telling that, with few exceptions, the PRO FP+ comments aren't about how the system will be a benefit but are directed at ridiculing and being condescending to those that are against it. Why are those in favor of FP+ so upset with those who are not? And why can't they seem to keep their comments directed at their reasoning WHY they like it? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE THREADS GET CLOSED!

If you like FP+, great. State why. Those that don't are free to do the same. Why insult and make fun of peoples opinions?

I'll start off by saying I haven't formed an opinion either way about FP+ yet and I agree you shouldn't insult people for their opinions.

However, it seems (to me anyway) that the reason people like FP+ because of the facts they've been given and others dislike it mostly because of the assumptions they've made.

Examples:
For FP+
"I like FP+ because I can book my Fastpasses ahead of time and don't have to get up early and make rope drop"

Against FP+
"I don't like FP+ because I don't want to book my Fastpasses that far out."
(You don't HAVE to use the system)
"Then I won't be able to ride my favorite rides because the lines will be outrageous and they are taking away regular FP."
(We don't know that these things are true yet)

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

The very first time, years ago, I heard that this system was coming and that I would be able to reserve an attraction ride some large distance of time in the future my reaction was "wha???? why would I want to do that???"

And that's my gripe, the entire premise is flawed because I simply do not believe that the majority of people want to make 3 appointments to ride attractions 60 days in advance.

This idea should have never gotten out of the planning meetings.

 

[wdwlver]

I'll start off by saying I haven't formed an opinion either way about FP+ yet and I agree you shouldn't insult people for their opinions.

However, it seems (to me anyway) that the reason people like FP+ because of the facts they've been given and others dislike it mostly because of the assumptions they've made.

Examples:
For FP+
"I like FP+ because I can book my Fastpasses ahead of time and don't have to get up early and make rope drop"

Against FP+
"I don't like FP+ because I don't want to book my Fastpasses that far out."
(You don't HAVE to use the system)
"Then I won't be able to ride my favorite rides because the lines will be outrageous and they are taking away regular FP."
(We don't know that these things are true yet)

Actually some of us are not happy about FP+ because we know this fact. FP+ in one park per day. Now for those of you who don't park hop, you don't care and I understand that but for those of us who do, this is a benefit we currently enjoy (being able to pull fast passes at more than one park per day) which is being taken away according to what we know so far.
No assumptions here. Just the facts as they have been stated.

 

[bcrook]

Totally agree with this post. We are testers and although I was initially freaked out and wanted to "opt out" if possible, I'm now looking forward to trying it out. I would be less enthusiastic if we were going during a crowd level 9 week vs. crowd level 4 or 5 though.

I found out about the test last Tues am at 5:45 am and went in and spent about 2 hours making and editing my FP+ choices. As others have reported all headliners are available, but I found that for us Wishes and MSEP were never an option and Fantasmic! only showed up for one day and was for the second showing. So there may have been some "tiered" options for us because we have discounted convention tix, I'm not sure.

Several times last week I went in to change my selections after rethinking my strategy and the headliners were still available but at less desirable times. Now at less than a week from starting I'm at the point where I can't really do any more editing because of availability. Example: I booked FP+ for my party of 4 for 12:05 for BTMRR and after watching a youtube video my younger son has said he will not ride it. When I try to edit the FP+ for just DH and him for a different ride I get "we're sorry, there are no other rides available during this time." Less than a week from when booking started and I can't even get so much as a Philharmagic FP? Really? I could get something if I changed the time to 2 pm but we'll be long gone by then.

The interface for choosing FP+ is clunky. I will often have to log in and enter my password 3X during an attempt to change a FP+ attraction or time. I will also get a stuck screen where it is "loading" and never gets there. I won't want to be fiddling with that on my phone while in the park for sure.

So far my perception is that if we are able to go during a less busy time there's a chance the good may outweigh the bad. If I were going during a busy week I would really be questioning whether the resort and ticket prices were still worth it.

This does lead to another strategy and motivation to book early. If you book a lot of ADRs, then you will most certainly need to get online as early as possible and start matching up the best times.

 

[Planogirl]

I'll start off by saying I haven't formed an opinion either way about FP+ yet and I agree you shouldn't insult people for their opinions.

However, it seems (to me anyway) that the reason people like FP+ because of the facts they've been given and others dislike it mostly because of the assumptions they've made.

Examples:
For FP+
"I like FP+ because I can book my Fastpasses ahead of time and don't have to get up early and make rope drop"

Against FP+
"I don't like FP+ because I don't want to book my Fastpasses that far out."
(You don't HAVE to use the system)
"Then I won't be able to ride my favorite rides because the lines will be outrageous and they are taking away regular FP."
(We don't know that these things are true yet)

It's only reasonable to make some assumptions. We know that there will be crowds and that the number of rides available on an attraction will be static. Therefore there will be lines just as there are now. It only stands to reason.

 

[Reddog1134]

Actually some of us are not happy about FP+ because we know this fact. FP+ in one park per day. Now for those of you who don't park hop, you don't care and I understand that but for those of us who do, this is a benefit we currently enjoy (being able to pull fast passes at more than one park per day) which is being taken away according to what we know so far.
No assumptions here. Just the facts as they have been stated.

That's a valid complaint based on fact. Hopefully, people have been expressing that concern during the Beta test and Disney will reevaluate.

 

[WillAustin]

It's only reasonable to make some assumptions. We know that there will be crowds and that the number of rides available on an attraction will be static. Therefore there will be lines just as there are now. It only stands to reason.

And the FP+ slots have to come out of existing FP allocation, or from standby.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I'll start off by saying I haven't formed an opinion either way about FP+ yet and I agree you shouldn't insult people for their opinions.

However, it seems (to me anyway) that the reason people like FP+ because of the facts they've been given and others dislike it mostly because of the assumptions they've made.

Examples:
For FP+
"I like FP+ because I can book my Fastpasses ahead of time and don't have to get up early and make rope drop"

Against FP+
"I don't like FP+ because I don't want to book my Fastpasses that far out."
(You don't HAVE to use the system)
"Then I won't be able to ride my favorite rides because the lines will be outrageous and they are taking away regular FP."
(We don't know that these things are true yet)

I guess I would agree with your summary.

But I think the group that says I don't want to book that far out is enormously larger than the group that says oh great now I don't have to get up for rope drop and I can still ride TSMM without a wait.

If I were in the planning meetings and someone said yea this FP+ is going to raise revenue because people will stay in DHS and spend $ if they have a p.m. appt when they would otherwise leave because they can't ride TSMM,

I would say NO WAY because that's gotta be the same $ spend or close to it if those people show up at TSMM and go oh crap it's 110 mins let's just forget it and what do we do now? oh I know let's get ice cream and SPEND $$

and they spend billions to chase that purported spend.

What they needed in the planning process was a Sr. VP of Common Sense.

 

[mbrittb00]

I'll start off by saying I haven't formed an opinion either way about FP+ yet and I agree you shouldn't insult people for their opinions.

However, it seems (to me anyway) that the reason people like FP+ because of the facts they've been given and others dislike it mostly because of the assumptions they've made.

Examples:
For FP+
"I like FP+ because I can book my Fastpasses ahead of time and don't have to get up early and make rope drop"

Against FP+
"I don't like FP+ because I don't want to book my Fastpasses that far out."
(You don't HAVE to use the system)
"Then I won't be able to ride my favorite rides because the lines will be outrageous and they are taking away regular FP."
(We don't know that these things are true yet)

True that a lot of the comments against FP+ are based on assumption. But those assumptions are drawn from the evidence avaliable. If Disney wants to release the detals we can have a complete disucssion, but until then we HAVE to rely on what we can piece together from the avaliable evidence. If you beleive that the evidence that people are using to draw their conclusions is faulty, the please let us know, and why you believe that.

Obviously with the "FACTS", what isn't there to dislike. I get to book ahead of time. I don't have to keep up with any little sheets of paper. I get to my attraction wave my arm at this post and it light ups (very cool) etc. Those are the facts that Disney has relesaed and surprise, surprise they are all positlve. The FACTS that would lead to the negative opinions are kept hiddne or obscured until the last possible moment so that all the positive inertia generated by the positive FACTS can carry the system forward. Maybe in the end this will be an owesome new system. However there are some concerns that are very legitimate.

1. Will I be limited to getting only 1 FP+ for a headliner? Or can I make my three selections as I see fit. (early indications were that you would be limited, but that seems to have changed recently)
2. Are we really going to be limited to 3 FP selections per day
3. Is FP- going to be avaliable in the parks in addition to my 3 FP+ selections
4. Do I really have to plan the details of my vacation 2 months in advance? (This actually came from the T&C that Disney released (I guess technically no, but don't plan to get FPs for any of the major attractions.)
5. Will the new system be avaliable for off-site guests as well.

There are others but those are the major concerns. And while I may not have facts to support any of those statements above, you also don't have any facts to refute them either.

 

[ValiantHeart]

Personally, I hate the idea because I will be a cast member going into the parks on my days off and will be standing in lines for most of the day to maybe ride two attractions, because I won't have access to FP+. No thanks!

 

[Reddog1134]

There are others but those are the major concerns. And while I may not have facts to support any of those statements above, you also don't have any facts to refute them either.

But that's your Burden of Proof.

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed"

Basically you're saying it's true because I can't prove that it's not true.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Basically you're saying it's true because I can't prove that it's not true.

The PP did not say it was "true", simply that he/she believed it to be likely.

 

[fuzzylogic]

I know this is true..... Fast Pass or No Fast Pass or Fast Pass+ - we're going to have a BLAST at WDW in 2 weeks!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I know this is true..... Fast Pass or No Fast Pass or Fast Pass+ - we're going to have a BLAST at WDW in 2 weeks!

With that kind of positive attitude, you are almost certainly correct.