The Everything VEGAN Thread

[Teresa Pitman]

Would it work to describe yourself as someone who is trying to reduce their intake of animal products, rather than as a vegan? I definitely agree that any reduction in eating those foods is helpful!

I also agree that you don't want to make yourself the focus when eating out. If I am going to a restaurant where I think vegan options are likely to be scarce, I usually eat something first. There's usually something I can have (maybe a plain salad) without making a big fuss. If not, I'm fine because I've already eaten and I'll just make some excuse (big lunch today, tummy's a bit upset) if other people notice.

TP

 

[LisaR]

Hmm. I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree in some ways.

I completely understand why some choose to be very strict, and I also understand that for those people contamination of their foods (for example, in non-designated friers) can make them sick, and absolutely if someone cooking for you buys food that will physically make you sick, I completely understand why that makes it very complicated, and why it's important that non-strict vegans don't make it harder.

However, I make my choices based on what I think causes the least suffering to animals in the aggregate, and I think that this happens when a larger group of people make more vegan choices. This will increase the availability of vegan products overall, and will make it easier for strict vegans to be strict. It also will have the greatest impact on the industry.

What I will say is that I'm very careful about who I eat what around. When I'm around people who I don't know very well and have only had short conversations about veganism with, I absolutely don't do things like put milk in my coffee around them. If it's a situation of hospitality and I haven't self-identified as vegan in advance (which is rare, but happens every once in a while because life is complicated), I won't always have the conversation with people if there's nothing else that I can eat around (because I don't want to make someone feel badly and they don't necessarily know that I'm vegan in the first place). I would never self-identify as vegan in a restaurant and then have a bakery product or dairy. However, I have very in-depth conversations with a lot of people about veganism, and they understand that the choices I make, although few and far between, are done for specific reasons and they also know that many vegans do choose to be very strict.

I don't like labels, but considering how passionate I am about vegan food, considering how much I cook it, share it with others, talk about it, and spread awareness, I DO call myself a vegan--both to myself, and often in public situations if I think it's appropriate (certainly not while I've got milk in my coffee if I'm talking to someone for the first time). I think it's really important to have conversations with people about abstaining from meat, eggs, and dairy, but please understand that this does not mean that I'm not VERY careful to make sure that the people I interact with do not have a faulty understanding of what veganism is, for the exact reason you mentioned.

Ultimately, I feel more comfortable and the people around me are more comfortable when I am occasionally flexible, and I think that does a LOT to promote veganism in general. I've found that when I'm not flexible, occasions often end up revolving around me and my eating habits, and people often find that kind of distasteful and self-absorbed of me and associate being vegan with being self-absorbed, and so I try to temper that by keeping things in perspective. (The birthday girl does not need to choose a restaurant around me. The server at that restaurant should be focusing on her, not me. The conversation should be about the birthday girl, not my veganism. I will order the best approximation I can off the menu, but the bread *might* have egg.)

This has been my personal experience, and although I really respect why you feel as you do, I really would hope that you'll reconsider being so harsh about labeling "vegan" or "not a vegan". I think it kind of undermines what we're all hoping for, which is that this lifestyle becomes more popular, that people are healthier, the environment is healthier, and fewer and fewer animals suffer with each year that passes.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would label yourself vegan? I don't care what you or anyone else eats. It is totally up to you if you want to drink milk or eat cheese. I can't imagine any vegan getting bent out of shape because you decided to put milk in your coffee.

It just perplexes me as to why you would call yourself vegan? You aren't. It really is that simple.

There really is such a thing as vegan and well.......not vegan. You are not vegan. I am not being harsh. I really am not. I am simply stating a fact. You continue to eat products that contain eggs and dairy. That means you aren't vegan. That is totally cool. I would never hold that against you nor would anyone I know. But you aren't vegan.

 

[kollerbear]

I am not really someone who is working to reduce my dairy consumption, though... I am dairy and egg free 99.9% of the time! The specific incidences I'm not are for a variety of reasons and I think it's kind of absurd in the grand scheme of things to be determined by those handfuls of decisions. Cornflake was giving some pretty outrageous examples of people who eat meat and fish by choice, and that does not reflect me. I eat out a lot with the same people, and being in nyc I can usually tell what's vegan on a menu, but I don't always talk to the server to confirm. The "salad" trick only works just so many times before people think that vegans starve themselves and can't have a meal out, which is obviously not true. Sometimes I need some bread! I do a very good job responding reasonably to a variety of situations. Do all of you check items for vegan sugar? Beer? Wine? We all draw the line somewhere. I'm 99.9% vegan, (100% at home) and yeah, I want to call myself one. I guess I'm finding myself a little hurt by this because I work really hard to advocate for veganism, I believe in it passionately, and I feel like I'm being questioned over really specific and minor issues which detract from the overall.

 

[kollerbear]

I will also add that I think one of the consequences of being so closed-minded about this (and NOTHING is so simple) is that being able to be "vegan" ends up hinging on whether or not you're 1) comfortable drawing sustained attention to yourself in a wide variety of circumstances, 2) able to stomach a black cup of coffee (I'm not!), etc. etc. etc.. If you never have to make those kinds of decisions in your life, then you live a VERY different life than me and a LOT of other people! Just because I respond to them differently than you would DOES NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS SINCERE or, in my opinion, any less vegan. That CHOICE was not vegan, but I myself personally feel as if I am.

I've been told again and again about the closed-mindedness of vegans, and I've never personally experienced it until right now. I have to believe that if we were talking to each other in real life we'd be having a very different conversation. I really don't think it's fair to exclude someone from the label of "vegan" when you honestly don't know them and don't know their life. If I say I'm a vegan, give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm talking about a series of specific and isolated incidents, and this is kind of absurd. But given how passionate I am, it's obviously, as I said, very hurtful.

 

[LisaR]

I will also add that I think one of the consequences of being so closed-minded about this (and NOTHING is so simple) is that being able to be "vegan" ends up hinging on whether or not you're 1) comfortable drawing sustained attention to yourself in a wide variety of circumstances, 2) able to stomach a black cup of coffee (I'm not!), etc. etc. etc.. If you never have to make those kinds of decisions in your life, then you live a VERY different life than me and a LOT of other people! Just because I respond to them differently than you would DOES NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS SINCERE or, in my opinion, any less vegan. That CHOICE was not vegan, but I myself personally feel as if I am.

I've been told again and again about the closed-mindedness of vegans, and I've never personally experienced it until right now. I have to believe that if we were talking to each other in real life we'd be having a very different conversation. I really don't think it's fair to exclude someone from the label of "vegan" when you honestly don't know them and don't know their life. If I say I'm a vegan, give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm talking about a series of specific and isolated incidents, and this is kind of absurd. But given how passionate I am, it's obviously, as I said, very hurtful.

Closed minded?????? You AREN'T vegan! Why are you trying so hard to be something you aren't? You realize that there aren't any special badges that we receive for being vegan, right? They don't have parades for us or hand out gold medals. We aren't better than anyone else.

There are simple definitions for many words in life. A person that doesn't eat animal flesh but eats eggs and dairy, no matter how frequent or infrequent, is a vegetarian. Just like a person that eats fish only once a year is not a vegetarian. It isn't closed minded. It isn't semantics. It is the definition of the word. Just like the definition of pregnant. One can't be "a little pregnant." They are or they aren't.

I honestly can't figure out why you are trying so hard to define yourself and align yourself with something you aren't? If it is honestly that important to you, stop having that little bit of dairy and eggs. If not, embrace the fact that you are vegetarian. Nothing wrong with that. The only person that seems to have an issue with it is you.

I am equally confused about your statements of calling attention to yourself in public based on what you eat. I've never made a scene. Nobody pays attention to what I eat just like I don't pay attention to what they are eating. Coffee is quite simple. Ask for non-dairy milk. If they don't have it, learn to drink it black or don't drink it when you are out. It isn't complicated and it certainly doesn't warrant making a scene and drawing attention to yourself. Look at menus online before going out to eat so you know in advance what they have. I never go to a restaurant hungry. I believe most restaurant food is crap anyway. I don't make a big deal out of it. I go for the company. My food choices never come into question.

If I was closed minded about my food choices, I'd be an awfully lonely person since I only have one friend who is vegan. It makes zero difference to me what other people eat. But it does matter to me when people misrepresent themselves. I swim but I don't tell people I am an Olympic athlete.

 

[kollerbear]

I think this is really negative and, although I'd be really glad to have the conversation in person, I think this is a bad forum for it. I'm sure there is a greater diversity of opinions on this than are being expressed. I personally have unsubscribed since I know it's the stuff I do in real life that matters most to me, so I'm just going to keep to myself on this subject on the Dis. I'm really glad that people feel so passionately, although it seems strange to get so worked up about the right to use a word. I wish everyone the best, sincerely, and you have given me some to think about, although have not changed my mind. Happy September, I hope you all can find something interesting to talk about!

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Hello All! We are not vegan but we try to eat healthy. I wanted to reccomend a great cookbook. Veganomicon. It is a great read and has great recipes. It even tells you at the beginning what to stock your kitchen with. I love that because who wants to go shopping just for one meal? They even have desserts. I would love to hear if anyone has a simply recipe for Gluten free dairy free bread. TIA!

I love Veganomicon! I actually just bought a second copy of it to give to a friend who is trying to eat vegan as much as possible.

I second the rec for Veganomicon! I don't own it but I keep taking it out of the library!

Has anyone tried Diaya cheese? I saw it at Wegmans and am curious if its good

It's all right. I'm not a fan of non-dairy cheeses, but I know Amy's uses Diaya in their vegan pizza and macaroni and cheese, and when I do eat frozen foods, it's usually their stuff.

I am so glad I came across this--I tested positive for a milk allergy, so I figured it's as good a time as any to switch to vegan. For some reason the hardest thing i am trying to replace is butter. Every brand of margine I have looked at has some milk in it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Earth Balance.

I also second the rec for Veganomicon, although if you're just starting out and you're trying to be more health conscious, Appetite for Reduction (another Isa Chandra Moskowitz book) has recipes that are a bit simpler and has a lot of more healthy, weeknight meals. The nutrition info is even all included, which I found VERY useful, especially in tracking protein intake as a new vegan. (I've made about 70% of the recipes in there--if you'd like any recommendations feel free to PM me!) Chloe's Kitchen, a new book by Chloe Coscarelli is also very good, and takes a much simpler approach than Veganomicon with shorter ingredient lists and more basic versions of traditional foods--but her flavors are VERY good. She actually won Cupcake Wars with vegan cupcakes, which is kind of her initial claim to fame. Now her cookbook is getting lots of accolades, the stuff is really delicious. I've gotta say that's currently my favorite cookbook.

I really like Chloe's Kitchen too. Very easy and tasty recipes. The book has some low reviews on Amazon for not being super healthy, but her entrees and veggie dishes are pretty healthy. Her spinach-artichoke dip is fantastic! The desserts I haven't tried yet, but she did win Cupcake Wars, so I'm assuming they're good.

I also agree that you don't want to make yourself the focus when eating out. If I am going to a restaurant where I think vegan options are likely to be scarce, I usually eat something first. There's usually something I can have (maybe a plain salad) without making a big fuss. If not, I'm fine because I've already eaten and I'll just make some excuse (big lunch today, tummy's a bit upset) if other people notice.

TP

I do the same thing, eat before going out if I don't think there will be much I'll eat at wherever I'm going. I'm lucky to live in a pretty veg-friendly area and have awesome friends who are very supportive and always make sure there's something I'll eat.

As far as the vegan / not vegan debate. If you intentionally eat any animal products, you aren't vegan. I think lowering consumption of dairy and other animal products is fantastic, and for years that's what I did. I do think it's okay to say you eat a mostly vegan diet or that you make vegan choices when possible, but to call yourself a true vegan? That's just not helpful for anyone.

I took a 30 day vegan challenge last month. I have no intention of going back to eating any animal products anymore. I'm proud to be able to call myself a vegan today.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

My daughter Lisa just published the cookbook she's been working on (with her co-author Nicole) for months. It's beautiful! It is an e-book, so not too expensive, and they are donating one-third of the purchase price to the elephant sanctuary in Thailand where she volunteered last year. All the recipes are, of course, vegan (also delicious)!

Check it out here:
http://www.veganculinarycrusade.com/ebook

Teresa

 

[Laura]

My daughter Lisa just published the cookbook she's been working on (with her co-author Nicole) for months. It's beautiful! It is an e-book, so not too expensive, and they are donating one-third of the purchase price to the elephant sanctuary in Thailand where she volunteered last year. All the recipes are, of course, vegan (also delicious)!

Check it out here:
http://www.veganculinarycrusade.com/ebook

Teresa

So awesome! Good for her!

 

[npmommie]

Kollerbear,
I don't know if you are still reading, but I try to eat the way you do, but I don't call myself Vegan because I am not, and the problem for me IS the isolated incidents of bread at a restaurant, cream in my coffee. etc.

not trying to be hurtful, but something that may help you see what others are talking about is Veggieboards.
sign on over there to the vegan forum and you will get some valuable information about why people choose the vegan lifestyle and what it means when someone labels themselves vegan when they are not.
http://www.veggieboards.com/

the forums are great, I don't post much , but I read a lot and have learned a lot. the people for the most part are supportive and friendly.

I think what you are doing is great, its what I do too. I probably will never get to veganism, because for one I can't let go of my coffee and cream, LOL

 

[fall08CP]

As far as the vegan / not vegan debate. If you intentionally eat any animal products, you aren't vegan. I think lowering consumption of dairy and other animal products is fantastic, and for years that's what I did. I do think it's okay to say you eat a mostly vegan diet or that you make vegan choices when possible, but to call yourself a true vegan? That's just not helpful for anyone.

Ditto. Why would you want the label "vegan" if you're not- is it some social status? I'm vegan strictly for health reasons, but if I decide to eat dairy (even just cheese or just cream) I'd call myself a lacto-vegetarian. I either drink my coffee black (yuck) or bring along a small silk soy creamer.. No big deal. I often am not accommodated at work luncheons so I'm used to leaving nuts, pretzels, or clif bars at my desk. I hate hearing other mislabel themselves (I'm a vegan except cheese! I'm a vegan that eats fish!) but in the end I don't really care. They're only kidding themselves.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I do see how it creates confusion for other people, though, when the last person they met who was vegan was happy to eat fish, cheese or whatever, and you aren't.

It also causes problems for researchers. I saw one study that showed self-identified vegans lived somewhat longer than omnivores; the researcher was surprised that the gap wasn't larger. When he went back and asked more in-depth questions, it turned out that some of the "vegans" ate chicken, eggs, fish, dairy, etc. Vague definitions make it very hard to do good research!

TP
(And do check out Lisa's e-book at www.veganculinarycrusade.com!)

 

[Hardy]

Ok, lots of um, passion...on the vegan topic. Let's move on....

What is your favorite vegan meal?

I have so many favorites it's hard to choose, I make a white bean chili that I adapted from a chicken chili recipe, and also I love a thing I make made primarily of lentils and bulgur, with curry spices. Yum!

I've always liked to cook, but have found it so much more important bc choices are so limited in restaurants. I love having a really good meal and knowing it is vegan, healthful and good for the earth.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I am making one of my favourites tonight - from the Appetite for Reduction cookbook. I think she calls it Forty Cloves of Garlic Chickpeas and Broccoli Bake or something like that. It doesn't really have forty cloves of garlic in it, but it is very garlicky (something I love). I usually add chopped onions, because I like them. It's easy and very good.

I recently found a recipe in a cookbook from the library called Vegan Indian Cooking for pakoras made in a pan and baked (they are usually deep-fried). You basically grate a lot of vegetables, mix them with chickpea flour, a little oil and a little silken tofu, plus lots of spices, pat the mix into a 9 by 13 pan and bake. Sounds simple, but wow, it's good! I took a pan to a barbecue party and people (most of them not vegan) just gobbled them down. I didn't even have any leftovers! So that could become a new favourite.

Another favourite for me is frittata, made with tofu and a lot of vegetables.

TP

 

[npmommie]

Hardy could you post the recipe for the lentils and Bulgar dish you mentioned? it sounds good!

Teresa Pitman I have appetite for reduction on my kindle but have not tried any recipes, thanks for mentioning the chickpea and broccoli dish, it sounds good, I am going to look thru the recipes this evening

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I don't know if I could ever pick a single meal as my favorite. I wouldn't even be able to pick a favorite recipe from most cookbooks I own, I just have too many favorites. My two favorites in Appetite for Reduction though, since we seem to be talking about that, are the red Thai tofu and the Thai-roasted root vegetable curry. I haven't tried the chickpea and broccoli thing yet, but it's on my long list of recipes to try someday.

 

[WDWBarb]

I went to buy Appetite for Reduction and Amazon says that it's currently unavailable in Kindle format. .

 

[npmommie]

I went to buy Appetite for Reduction and Amazon says that it's currently unavailable in Kindle format. .

probably because they need to fix it. The way its displayed is annoying. there is no access to the table of contents. so unless I know what page I want I have to scroll thru or go back to the beginning. you can't just get to the table of content

on a side note that chickpea broccoli recipe is on my list, it looks good and easy

 

[mombrontrent]

I am revitalizing this thread to report that I have now gone totally vegan I was vegetarian for 15 years and over the last 6 months or so greatly reduced my dairy intake. I had a last few holdouts like coffee creamer but I have finally found a good replacement (Silk coffee creamer is actually good). I will still eat honey though. Tomarrow will be 3 weeks vegan and I have no plans on going back. I actually really like Daiya cheese and love my cereal with almond milk or plain almond yogurt. I had been worried about baking because that is something I love to do but I have had quite a bit sucess so far. Even my meat eating DH loved my vegan cabbage rolls but he used to my "weird" cooking now. Most meals were all vegetarian around here anyways now they with just be vegan.

 

[rani8600]

I am revitalizing this thread to report that I have now gone totally vegan I was vegetarian for 15 years and over the last 6 months or so greatly reduced my dairy intake. I had a last few holdouts like coffee creamer but I have finally found a good replacement (Silk coffee creamer is actually good). I will still eat honey though. Tomarrow will be 3 weeks vegan and I have no plans on going back. I actually really like Daiya cheese and love my cereal with almond milk or plain almond yogurt. I had been worried about baking because that is something I love to do but I have had quite a bit sucess so far. Even my meat eating DH loved my vegan cabbage rolls but he used to my "weird" cooking now. Most meals were all vegetarian around here anyways now they with just be vegan.

Congrats on the switch I feel like making the jump from vegetarian to vegan always seems a little scary, but once you make the leap you dont look back.

I bake all the time. If you have any questions about recipes or substitutions just pm me and i can offer anything i have. if you like baking cakes i would recommend Vegan Cupcakes Take Over the World. Its a great resource for recipes and gives great explanations about ingredients and substitutions. There is a pie and cookie version of the books as well.