The DIS Boards in NY Times article

[FrozenTundra]

I spend three weeks a year in WDW. Without hesitation I can say I've never had a bad experience with a CM. Many have been tremendous and nearly all better then I have experienced at other Orlando area attractions and resorts. Disney may have slipped some, but they are still VERY good at customer service.

I also concur with the thought that John Q Public in general are a bunch of spoiled rotten brats that needed to be beat like a drum. I work in customer service. People are jerks. In Epcot,over at the Expresso stand, I watched a man take his cup of expresso,fill it to the brim with milk - which means his cup was half coffee,half milk - then proceded to LOUDLY verbally abuse the CM because his expresso wasn't HOT. The CM offered him another expresso and the idiot started screaming louder. I think the only reason he left was because a handfull of us in line started refering to him as Richard Cranium.

As for a CM making my trip Magical ??? I'm sorry, but I don't expect a CM to do that for me. I just expect them to do their jobs properly and the Magic will take care of itself.

 

[mitros]

Very well stated, Goofy4WDW1964!

 

[DancingBear]

Certainly training and management are key, but I'm sure that a large reason for any decline in the quality of CMs is the extremely low unemployment rate which has been true for some time in Central Florida. When you don't have as many applicants, you have to take folks that you otherwise might not have.

 

[mitros]

You said a mouthfull. I totally agree with you regarding an ever increasing number of John Q. Public. We were in the bakery on the Boardwalk last April, and this clown comes in with the top of a refillable mug, and said that he lost the mug, and wanted a new one and wanted it filled with soda! Enerybody on line looked at this putz with total disbelief. The CM totally kept her cool, and told the guy that she was sorry, but she could not do that, and said if he could produce a receipt for the mug, she would then be able to help him. The guy threw the top on the floor, and stormed out saying "I'll never come to DISNEYLAND again." The nitwit didn't even know where he was! After he left, everyone one line cheered and applauded the CM, and she took a well deserved bow!

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

I spend three weeks a year in WDW. Without hesitation I can say I've never had a bad experience with a CM. Many have been tremendous and nearly all better then I have experienced at other Orlando area attractions and resorts. Disney may have slipped some, but they are still VERY good at customer service.

I also concur with the thought that John Q Public in general are a bunch of spoiled rotten brats that needed to be beat like a drum. I work in customer service. People are jerks. In Epcot,over at the Expresso stand, I watched a man take his cup of expresso,fill it to the brim with milk - which means his cup was half coffee,half milk - then proceded to LOUDLY verbally abuse the CM because his expresso wasn't HOT. The CM offered him another expresso and the idiot started screaming louder. I think the only reason he left was because a handfull of us in line started refering to him as Richard Cranium.

As for a CM making my trip Magical ??? I'm sorry, but I don't expect a CM to do that for me. I just expect them to do their jobs properly and the Magic will take care of itself.

We never used to encounter any bad CMs. But, in the last three years, we have. Now, we still encounter far more good CMs than bad. And, as I stated, I think this is due to how they have been treated. I don't think the ratio of bad CMs is too far off of the ratio of spoiled roten brats in John Q Public. I have never in my 8 trips to WDW raised my voice to a CM. And, although I have witnessed it, it is still very far from the norm.

I don't expect the CMs to make my trip magical. Maybe what I should have typed was that the CMs and what they do are one of the major reasons WDW is so magical.

An example of the bad. We had been to the MK one day last year. We usually take our time leaving the MK after the fireworks in order to let the crowds disperse. We usually stroll Main Street and look through the shops. We have done this every year since 1996. We left the MK and road the monorail over to the TTC. It was empty when we got there, no big surprise. We didn't see any trams. There was a CM walking through so I stopped and politely asked him if the trams were still running. He didn't say one word. He shrugged his shoulders and walked on. It wasn't a big deal that they weren't. We were not parked that far out. I didn't ask him to carry me and my family to our car on his back. But he was extremely rude. Yes, some may say that it was late, he was tired, he had a bad day. All could be true. It was late, for me too. I was in the same time zone as him. I had had a long day too. I was tired. I was polite in asking and I was polite even after his response.

Another example occured at Restauranosoris. We went there for lunch at 11:00. We ordered. My wife and son went to get a table and I waited at the counter to get our food and drinks. A large group of small children, with chaperones, came in after us. They brought our tray of food to me at the counter. There were not any drinks. I stopped a young lady as she was walking by behind the counter and ask her about our drinks. She turned and curetly told me that she was busy and walked on. I ask the next person if she could get our drinks. She told me that she would get them as soon as she finished getting the group of kids drinks. Now, when i say group of kids, there were about 30 in this group. I asked to speak to the manager who came up. I explained to her that I needed drinks. They had brought my food and if I had to wait until they filled 30 other drinks, my food was going to be cold. She fixed my drinks and we went on with our lunch.

These are just two examples, of several lately that we have noticed. Again, this is a small percentage of CMs. A vast majority still work their magic.

 

[raidermatt]

Matt, can you tell me where those numbers coming from (about tourism, etc). Not doubting you, just like having more information where possible.

No problem. Most of it is anecdotal, but here's something from The Maui News, dated 7/1/05. Article titled "State sets tourist arrivals record in May; Maui records tiny gain". (Couldn't find a link. I have a printed edition because we have a Friday subscription).

The state set a record of tourist arrivals in May, although Maui island posted only a tiny gain of 0.1 percent to 175,203... One reason Maui's headcount is not showing big gains is that, with the exception of the Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort, which will not be fully operational for a few months, no resorts have been built for 11 years... The rest of the state generally showed bigger growth in the headcount, and May set an all-time record with 567,476 visitors, up 4% over May 2004... Daily spending averaged $176, up $4...

Here's an excerpt from an article in the Orlando Sentinel:

While visitation is at record levels -- nearly 51 million tourists are expected to come to Central Florida this year, a 5.9 percent increase from last year -- the pace is not as brisk as it sometimes was in the past decade, when increases hovered around 10 percent.

Here is the link to that article, along with a link to the thread where it was discussed here awhile back. There's actually a lot of interesting points in it.

OSent Article

"No 5th park" thread



On this whole issue of the public causing more trouble than in the past, again, that probably is true. But the majority of the public still mind their p's and q's, and regardless, Disney has to find ways to maintain their product in the environment in which they exist, or they will suffer the consequences.

 

[FrozenTundra]

Matt, I think one of the biggest differences between people of today and in the past is this thing we refer to as "entitlement".

In the past, if you complained to your CM (or any waiter for that matter) about the quality of the meal, you were almost embarrassed to accept a comp meal as a means of satisfaction.

Today, people are expecting a $200.00 meal to be comp'ed if a diner roll isn't warm enough.

 

[raidermatt]

Again, though, I'm not arguing that things have not moved in that direction.

But why does that mean they can't pick up the garbage as often, or change the lightbulbs as often?

You can't tell me its because they have to spend the money on the $200 comp'd meal, because even with the increase in that type of thing, their income and revenue have continued to rise over the years. Yes, people are more demanding these days, but they are also spending more money. Entitlement maybe higher among us than our parents, but so is our disposable income. (Generic "our". I can honestly say I have NEVER asked for a comp in my life.)

If anybody has a solution to reversing the entitlement and lack of personal responsibility trends, by all means, share it and lets get to work on it. I'm all for it.

In the meantime, however, things are what they are, and no business can do anything about it. All they can do is choose how they will react to it. As I said before, two choices. 1- Throw up their hands and blame the public for the detioration of the product. 2- Take the bad with the good and maintain their product regardless.

Guess which path I think Disney should take?

 

[rocketriter]

I wonder if it's really true that the public is more difficult today than in the past. I recall that in the 60s, pundits were running around with their hair on fire complaining about a collapse of public behavior that turned out not to be real. This is something that large organizations like Disney probably keep quantifiable statistics on: ratios of irrational complaints pegged against factors like crowd density, weather and so forth.

My own suspicion is that the public is not acting any worse than usual and is not more demanding than in the past; there are jerks in every generation. But CMs (who have always been underpaid) receive significantly less customer service training than in the past and are probably demoralized by events of the long (Eisner era) and short (9/11) term, so they may not be handling the public as well. And who can blame them if this is the case. If so, the solution is not to spank the public, it's to improve both the training and the care and feeding of CMs.

Of course, that's only my suspicion. What I'd like to read is measured facts, not just suspicion--even my own!

 

[FrozenTundra]

Maybe I'm just starting to show my age Rocket, but I've had direct dealings with customer service for the last 15 years and IMO the Jerk-to-Good Guy ratio seems to be changing almost daily.

As you said, CM's have always been underpaid - after adjusting for inflation it may be that todays CM's are making less then in the past, but I really don't know for sure - so what has changed over the years ?

Are CM's demoralized by what they see in upper management to the point that they just don't care anymore ?

Are they frustrated by ignorant people who drop trash & ruin bathrooms for no other reason then "they can" ?

Is the quality of todays young workforce vastly inferior to past generations ?
( Based solely on my hiring & firing experience, I think this is becoming a very big issue. However, some of the best young workers I have ever witnessed work in DTD at The Earl of Sandwich.)

More then likely it' a combination of all three.

So what is the answer ?

Honestly, how many articles have you read where the people have been dissatisfied with the quality, variety and quantity or rides,shows,resorts or restaurants at WDW ? What you read about are people issues. People don't get angry at a ride that breaks down. They get angry if they don't feel a CM cares that it broke down.

Maybe instead of investing $100 million into the next coaster they should pump those $$ into training, additional help & few extra bucks in the pay envelope.

 

[crusader]

Matt, I think one of the biggest differences between people of today and in the past is this thing we refer to as "entitlement".

I'd add that the rate of consumption has risen to an all time high in this environment. Think back - thirty years ago to what the park looked like. The volume of trinkets, and consumable goods being sold was substantially less due to the constraint of the family budget and typical guest habits.

Today, we're surrounded by merchandise, packaging and junkfood which have led to some pretty bad habits regarding responsibility and cleanup. We see it in every entertainment venue around - ballparks, theatres, themeparks, the boardwalk, etc....... - people leave their trash for an employee to pick up.

Disney is no exception. I'm wondering if this is an in-house or outsourced shift in their workforce.

 

[rocketriter]

In the last few posts we've not agreed about whether or not the public has grown more irresponsible. (As I said in an earlier posting, I'm more likely to believe well-researched statistics than hunches, even my own.) But I find it interesting that we do agree on the need for improved training and care of CMs. Does anyone know if internal policy at the parks is shifting in that direction, or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[AlanH]

First, thank you all for the sympathic words. I know that I can speak for my wife on this in addition to speaking for myself. Both my wife and I greatly appreciate the magical experiences we have had and continue to have at WDW as guests. Therefore, she wants and I wanted to do everything we can to make to experience of being at WDW just as "magical" as it has been and continues to be for us.

Laura (lllovell), you ask a good question. Quite frankly I believe the marginal increase in cost to address these issues at WDW will be more than made up over the long run by increased revenue at WDW. There are a number of issues

1. The maintenance and upkeep. I think most will agree that over the long term deferred maintenance is more expensive than regular maintenace. In addition I believe the additional money spent to see that the light bulbs are replaced, and the parks and resorts are kept clean and freshly painted will pay dividends in the positive guest experience and "word of mouth" recommendations to other people. The reason much maintainence is done while the parks are open is due to management trying to again save money by not paying a "third shift" pay differential. Again I think the marginal increase in cost to do more work on the "third shift" will pay more dividends in the increased guest experience.

2. Management of hourly CMs and first line managers. I'll repeat myself, these people are key to the guest experience. About 90% of guest interaction is with hourly CMs. About another 9% is with first line managers. In addition, the first line managers are crucial to creating "The Work Experience" for the hourly CMs. I believe the additional money spent in training and support for first line managers would greatly enhance the "The Work Experience" for both the first line managers (because now they will feel valued) and the hourly CMs. This will translate into better service to the guests. And again over the long term increased revenues to WDW. By the way I am a compensation and benefits professional. While increased pay and benefits are appreciated, do not underestimate the importance of "The Work Experience". In my experience this can be addressed for a lot less money than pay and benefit increases. But it all starts with top management.

3. Labor Relations. The Labor Relations area must take a less confrontational postion with the unions. Obviously, the positions taken by Labor Relations in the last union negotiations were a direct result of policy set at Burbank. The original position taken by the company in negotiations would have resulted in anywhere from a 5 to 10% cut in take home pay and less benefits to boot. This did not sit well with many hourly CMs when revenues at WDW where close to an all time high and upper management (Eisner) was getting milliions in bonuses and stock options and the company was the defendent in a shareholder lawsuit for paying millions of dollars in serverence to a former President. Mitros, your point is well taken.

Goofy4WDW1964, I agree with everything you said, except maybe I'm just too nice a person to accuse people at Disney of greed.

FrozenTundra, I agree that guest service at WDW is very good. But there are many CMs who strive for excellence. Unfortunately, Disney fails to give us all the tools and support to succeed. Also, in my experience (and I think my wife agrees) we have run into few guests who are unreasonable or feel "entitled". But they do exist.

Crusader, FYI the actual clean-up of the Parks and Resorts at WDW is done by hourly CMs not contractors.

Rockitriter, we have not seen any changes yet at the hourly CM level. But it wouldn't surprize me if increased training and support is being discussed at various management levels. Disney still has a very good training infrastructure.