The difference between possession and consumption of alcohol by a minor?

[EMom]

You know, what I should have said is.....Get a copy of the statute and read it. It's probably not that complicated. You'll likely be able to read it and tell whether he was "in possession" according the the legal definition of your state once you have done that. Then you'll have a much better idea what to do. "Possession" doesn't necessarily mean what it means in the lay sense and that is key.

 

[LKHomemail]

I would hire an attorney and not take a chance on getting that on the record. Hopefully, a good attorney can get dismissed.

I think that tbe outcome depends on jurisdiction , the judge, the police and lots of other variables. It can go either way.

It is hard to know the real facts / as the kid may or may not be coming clean with the parent. The kid should understand that h/she needs to come clean with the attorney. The kid should also pay for the attorneys fees even if it takes a year or more.

I would do whatever I had to do to stack the deck to see that the kid does not get a record. The kid would not attend any parties in the future. NONE until graduation. I know sounds harsh / I think that getting the kid "off" so to speak sends the wrong message to the kid, but is necessary for the kid and their future. Consequently, I think punishment at home and having to pay financially for the fees for attorney would help send the right message. Consequences / Responsibility, etc.

Good Luck. I know it must be stressful for the kid and family. This will pass. Hang in there.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

He needs to plead it down or get it dropped if he can! An MIP can really screw you up. If you want to go into education, it can prevent you from getting your certification. I remember from TAing the Foundations of Education class at my university. They always tell you if you have an MIP or other alcohol charge to talk to them right away so they could find out if anything could be done. It can also screw you out of other jobs like the College Program at Disney.

Get a lawyer. If he truly did not have any alcohol hopefully they can get it plead down or dropped altogether. Regardless, he needs to fight this. No reason to screw up your entire future for one misjudgment- particularly if you were not actually drinking!

 

[Chancedabowsa]

For sure, IMO, you should fight the charge. Probably will take a lawyer.

 

[Teacher03]

I'm a little confused as to the facts, especially the point at which he left the house....was it before or after the police arrived, for example?

But unless the law has changed since I prosecuted MIPs, (at least in this state) simply being a minor in the house where there is alcohol available qualifies as a MIP. One beer and 25 minors in a house? That's still 25 MIPs because in theory, all 25 have access to that illegal beer. (Please don't gritch at me, I'm just explaining how it works, not singing the praises of the law.) The police know good and well that when they arrive at a house and there is underage drinking going on, the minors are going to flee like cockroaches and every single one will put down the alcohol they had in their hand. Many states passed these laws as a way to discourage house parties that allowed (sometimes with parental consent) underage drinking. BTW, the police don't have to give a breathalyzer because the charge is not underage DRINKING, but instead MIP.

Should you fight it? I can't say. Here, fighting it was pretty much useless as our conviction rate was high. Even with a lawyer, they were almost always found guilty. Try and find out what the reality is where you live. The odds are....You won't beat the odds. If the conviction rate is high, aim for a plea bargain that eventually will be wiped clean from his record. If there are frequent dismissals or acquittals, that's another matter entirely. No jurisdiction is exactly the same. How long do you have to decide? Maybe you ought to go sit in on some MIP cases and see for yourself how they go. It could be very enlightening.

My advice to DD will always be, if there is drinking, get the heck out because here, you are a MIP and I don't want that on your record. But that's here and I don't know what it's like where you live.

He left the house AFTER the police arrived because he thought he should go out to talk to them. He thought since he wasn't drinking or had anything on him, it would be the best thing to do. He was advised, many times, to leave a party if there is drinking....but advice is not always followed, as I'm sure you know. No more parties for the rest of the summer, he's grounded! And he knows he better not be anywhere near alcohol until he hits 21.

The court date is set for Monday morning, I will let you know how it goes.

 

[diesel]

He left the house AFTER the police arrived because he thought he should go out to talk to them. He thought since he wasn't drinking or had anything on him, it would be the best thing to do. He was advised, many times, to leave a party if there is drinking....but advice is not always followed, as I'm sure you know. No more parties for the rest of the summer, he's grounded! And he knows he better not be anywhere near alcohol until he hits 21.

The court date is set for Monday morning, I will let you know how it goes.

You're going to ground a 20 year old!?

 

[Teacher03]

You're going to ground a 20 year old!?

Yep, you better believe it. He didn't even argue the fact.

 

[karibritt01]

He was in the house, but he came out because he was worried about getting accused of drinking.

Maybe you could argue that he was trying to leave because of the alcohol? That he was in the process of leaving when the police came, which is why he was outside of the house when he spoke to them.

I think money spent on a lawyer would be foolish. If he has never been in trouble, police reports do not state that HE was any issue, he has the right attitude, I see it getting dismissed.

I would say go to court, talk to the judge and DA first. If they are not willing to work with him at all, then have him request a continuance in order to obtain counsel. I have never seen a judge refuse a continuance on a first appearance, especially for a person with a clean record.

You're going to ground a 20 year old!?

Oh, heck yeah!

 

[allison443]

I'm a little confused as to the facts, especially the point at which he left the house....was it before or after the police arrived, for example?

But unless the law has changed since I prosecuted MIPs, (at least in this state) simply being a minor in the house where there is alcohol available qualifies as a MIP. One beer and 25 minors in a house? That's still 25 MIPs because in theory, all 25 have access to that illegal beer. (Please don't gritch at me, I'm just explaining how it works, not singing the praises of the law.) The police know good and well that when they arrive at a house and there is underage drinking going on, the minors are going to flee like cockroaches and every single one will put down the alcohol they had in their hand. Many states passed these laws as a way to discourage house parties that allowed (sometimes with parental consent) underage drinking. BTW, the police don't have to give a breathalyzer because the charge is not underage DRINKING, but instead MIP.

Should you fight it? I can't say. Here, fighting it was pretty much useless as our conviction rate was high. Even with a lawyer, they were almost always found guilty. Try and find out what the reality is where you live. The odds are....You won't beat the odds. If the conviction rate is high, aim for a plea bargain that eventually will be wiped clean from his record. If there are frequent dismissals or acquittals, that's another matter entirely. No jurisdiction is exactly the same. How long do you have to decide? Maybe you ought to go sit in on some MIP cases and see for yourself how they go. It could be very enlightening.

My advice to DD will always be, if there is drinking, get the heck out because here, you are a MIP and I don't want that on your record. But that's here and I don't know what it's like where you live.

This is excellent advice. In our area it is the same as EMom posted: everyone in the house is guilty of "possession" even if they never touched the alcohol. Also around here, there are very few cases where the person is found not guilty. I don't want you to be reassured by everyone else that he can just explain himself and the nice prosecutor will drop the charge. Here they do not plea bargain these things.
In our state I believe there are also ramifications for the minor's driving privileges.
Can you look up the statute and see what it says?
I would get an attorney familiar with the local court for my kid, but that is just me.
Good luck!

 

[Teacher03]

This is excellent advice. In our area it is the same as EMom posted: everyone in the house is guilty of "possession" even if they never touched the alcohol. Also around here, there are very few cases where the person is found not guilty. I don't want you to be reassured by everyone else that he can just explain himself and the nice prosecutor will drop the charge. Here they do not plea bargain these things.
In our state I believe there are also ramifications for the minor's driving privileges.
Can you look up the statute and see what it says?
I would get an attorney familiar with the local court for my kid, but that is just me.
Good luck!

He just wants it over with. He is going to plead no contest, which was explained to me by a lawyer would be the best route. He's ready to return to college and said he is ready to get his nose back into the books and is determined to do well in school and will stay away from parties, etc. He can get it dropped from his record in a year provided he doesn't get in any more trouble. The lawyer thinks it is highly unlikely that this will affect his driving privileges; probably a fine and community service. Although I am upset and disappointed with his behavior that night, I am proud of how he is handling it up to this point. You can't turn back time, you can only go forward.

 

[Darcy03231]

I would hire a lawyer and fight the charge. Where I live, even if you're not drinking, if the cops show up and there's alcohol, the kid is charged with "possession".

 

[Teacher03]

OP here. He had to pay court costs and 50 hours of community service. Another boy at the party, same age, received a $25 fine and 20 hours of community service and this was his second offense this summer. He obviously had a different judge. It has definately been a learning experience for all of us.

Thank you for everyone's advice and thank you for not being judgemental. It is appreciated.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm a little confused as to the facts, especially the point at which he left the house....was it before or after the police arrived, for example?

But unless the law has changed since I prosecuted MIPs, (at least in this state) simply being a minor in the house where there is alcohol available qualifies as a MIP. One beer and 25 minors in a house? That's still 25 MIPs because in theory, all 25 have access to that illegal beer. (Please don't gritch at me, I'm just explaining how it works, not singing the praises of the law.) The police know good and well that when they arrive at a house and there is underage drinking going on, the minors are going to flee like cockroaches and every single one will put down the alcohol they had in their hand. Many states passed these laws as a way to discourage house parties that allowed (sometimes with parental consent) underage drinking. BTW, the police don't have to give a breathalyzer because the charge is not underage DRINKING, but instead MIP.

Should you fight it? I can't say. Here, fighting it was pretty much useless as our conviction rate was high. Even with a lawyer, they were almost always found guilty. Try and find out what the reality is where you live. The odds are....You won't beat the odds. If the conviction rate is high, aim for a plea bargain that eventually will be wiped clean from his record. If there are frequent dismissals or acquittals, that's another matter entirely. No jurisdiction is exactly the same. How long do you have to decide? Maybe you ought to go sit in on some MIP cases and see for yourself how they go. It could be very enlightening.

My advice to DD will always be, if there is drinking, get the heck out because here, you are a MIP and I don't want that on your record. But that's here and I don't know what it's like where you live.

I have a 12-pack of beer and bottle of vodka in my house. Does that mean that anyone under the age of 21 in my house can be charged MIP? Even if the 12-pack and bottle are sitting unopened?

 

[EMom]

I have a 12-pack of beer and bottle of vodka in my house. Does that mean that anyone under the age of 21 in my house can be charged MIP? Even if the 12-pack and bottle are sitting unopened?

LOL! I'd say you're safe. There are exceptions to the MIP laws, such as the minor being your own child, etc. that allow for such things as parents having a liquor cabinet with kids in the house. (Just don't make that liquor available to their friends.) Seriously.....These laws (IMHO) were written for parties. A neighbor calls and says, "Hey, the Jacksons are supposed to be out of town, but there are 30 cars parked on our street, kids going in and out of that house and loud music is playing. I want you to come check it out." In 99% of the cases, there will be alcohol involved. In some instances, the Jacksons aren't out of town and are the sort of parents who want "the drinking to go on at our house instead of somewhere else," so they make it alcohol available to minors, even those who aren't their kids. Then the Jacksons have to face serious charges, idiots that they are. Sometimes I think it ought to be called the MAP (Minors at Party) law instead of the MIP law.

What happened to the OP is exactly what I was speaking of......Enforcement is very "jurisdictional." In this case, two minors got two different judges and the minor who was a repeat offender actually received a much lighter sentence than the first time offender. Where I worked, that wouldn't have happened simply because we didn't split up cases between judges, but instead had a "cattle call" and handled all the related cases (if possible) on the same day, with the same small group of prosecutors and one judge. We worked out plea bargains in the conference room, presented them to the judge and she signed off. We wouldn't have offered a better deal to a repeat offender than a first timer. But that's another reason a local attorney who is VERY familiar with these cases can be very useful. That attorney might know that going before Judge A is a positive thing, but seeing Judge B can be a disaster.

When I first moved here, I was stunned at how one judge conducted his courtroom. Blatant violations of the law and he bullied every lawyer in there, to say nothing of the defendants. Just a month ago, I finally added 2 + 2 regarding him. About 15 years ago, before we moved here, there was a famous Texas case involving a claim of wrongful conviction in a capital murder case. I knew something about it, but not THAT much of the finer details. I did know that sometime after we moved here, the man was indeed set free. (Local guy.) Anyway, about a month ago, I was watching some crime show and it featured the case. I heard the guy's name and realized it was THIS county, so I decided to watch. The lead-in was about a crooked judge who did whatever he pleased.

Lo and behold, it tirned out to be THAT judge. I had never realized HE was the judge in the case. I told DH that considering that judge had no regard for the rules and made it up as he went along to please himself, I had no doubt that everything they said was true, especially since his own staff testified to that effect. I told DH I'd never seen anything like him on the bench, but to watch the show now that I KNEW what he was really like put the case in a whole new light. For years, I'd said, "God help the defendant that goes before him," (and I'm pro-prosecution ) because their rights meant nothing, but sending a man to death row by shady means was the lowest.

 

[DizBelle]

LOL! I'd say you're safe. There are exceptions to the MIP laws, such as the minor being your own child, etc. that allow for such things as parents having a liquor cabinet with kids in the house. (Just don't make that liquor available to their friends.)

Ok, what about my kids friends? They are over at my house and I have a bottle of vodka in my pantry. Can they be charged with MIP?

How, exactly, is the MIP law written? That is what's going to matter in a court of law.

 

[Chancedabowsa]

Sorry to read that the kid got hit so hard.

Don't understand why you did not have an attorney present. ALWAYS bring an attorney. You barely gotta chance with one there. Without one, forget it .

It is what it is ... it will be more difficult for him, but , he can recover. you do realize that this will never really be removed. there are records of removal etc. ? someting he should be aware of / as it may come up every now and then in his future. they don't let notin drop.

take care / both you and the youngin.

 

[Teacher03]

Sorry to read that the kid got hit so hard.

Don't understand why you did not have an attorney present. ALWAYS bring an attorney. You barely gotta chance with one there. Without one, forget it .

It is what it is ... it will be more difficult for him, but , he can recover. you do realize that this will never really be removed. there are records of removal etc. ? someting he should be aware of / as it may come up every now and then in his future. they don't let notin drop.

take care / both you and the youngin.

It can be expunged (sp?) after a year as long as he stays out of trouble. An attorney would have just drawn it out, and I did talked to one which advised to plead no contest, which he did. He has to return to college, so he just wanted to get it over with. He's a good kid, he'll get through it. Community service (although I think it is excessive!) never hurt anyone.

 

[kellyg403]

It can be expunged (sp?) after a year as long as he stays out of trouble. An attorney would have just drawn it out, and I did talked to one which advised to plead no contest, which he did. He has to return to college, so he just wanted to get it over with. He's a good kid, he'll get through it. Community service (although I think it is excessive!) never hurt anyone.

This is what we did, because honestly I kinda felt the same way. A learning lesson for all and I think dd actually got 32 hours of community service for it. To get it expunged though will cost you a bit. Here in NC she will HAVE to have lawyer to bring it before the judge. So lawyer fees, court costs all over again. But definitely worth it.

Kelly

 

[Teacher03]

This is what we did, because honestly I kinda felt the same way. A learning lesson for all and I think dd actually got 32 hours of community service for it. To get it expunged though will cost you a bit. Here in NC she will HAVE to have lawyer to bring it before the judge. So lawyer fees, court costs all over again. But definitely worth it.

Kelly

I don't think a lawyer is necessary, if I understand it correctly. The judge said as long as he doesn't have any other charges, it will be expunged. A coworker was charged with the same during college and she didn't have to hire a lawyer, so I'm hoping.

 

[AKL_Megs]

I don't think a lawyer is necessary, if I understand it correctly. The judge said as long as he doesn't have any other charges, it will be expunged. A coworker was charged with the same during college and she didn't have to hire a lawyer, so I'm hoping.

I've heard of this happening here before in MI... it's called something, and it's usually something they do for minors, so this young man got lucky!

Hopefully, he learned a valuable lesson in all of this. I wish him well. Everything will be alright!