The Current Disneyland Annual Pass Program Has Been Cancelled

[joseph821]

Plenty of AP holders pay more and come less. They make a lot of money from AP holders. so not exactly. Disney is all about making money they don’t care who spends it.

Agreed. Money is Money.
But I think moving forward Disneyland is going to focus more on guests staying at their hotels VS. annual passholders. One of the complaints that Disneyland received is that ALL of the passholders would get there early everyday and get all the boarding passes for the new Resistance Star Wars attraction. A friend of mine who works for Disney (for over 20 years) stated that all the complaining from the Resort Hotel guests was a huge issue. The focus moving forward is to increase hotel capacity in the next 2 years after Disneyland opens.

Also you can forget about Magic Morning with 3 day Park Hoppers to come back.

I was told Magic Morning at Disneyland if brought back will be for Resort Hotel guests only and Extra Morning Hours at DCA will also remain for Resort Hotel guests only. It is a Capacity issue vs Exclusivity issue.

 

[WonkaKid]

One of the complaints that Disneyland received is that ALL of the passholders would get there early everyday and get all the boarding passes for the new Resistance Star Wars attraction.

As a former (what?!) AP holder, here's my perspective. Hotel guests could and often did arrive at the park gates much earlier than we could because they walked over well before the parking structure opened. Indeed, once ROTR opened, I'd arrive at the line shortly after parking at around 6:40 and it would already be stretched to the DCA gates. Also, I rarely got a BG for ROTR that was usable. In fact, after dozens of post-ROTR park visits, I've only ridden it once. It may have felt good for out-of-town guests to blame crowds on AP holders, but honestly, how would they know? It's just as likely (more?) that the opening of ROTR attracted visitors from across the country, which led to capacity crowds.

 

[joseph821]

As a former (what?!) AP holder, here's my perspective. Hotel guests could and often did arrive at the park gates much earlier than we could because they walked over well before the parking structure opened. Indeed, once ROTR opened, I'd arrive at the line shortly after parking at around 6:40 and it would already be stretched to the DCA gates. Also, I rarely got a BG for ROTR that was usable. In fact, after dozens of post-ROTR park visits, I've only ridden it once. It may have felt good for out-of-town guests to blame crowds on AP holders, but honestly, how would they know? It's just as likely (more?) that the opening of ROTR attracted visitors from across the country, which led to capacity crowds.

Agreed. Hotel guests make demands. How would they know? I do not know. Disneyland was tired of Hotel Guests paying a premium to stay there and complain. Yes RITR attracted crowds from all over.
Hotel Guests complained and changes were made. Inevitably, many hotel guests complained. Goodbye Annual Passholder Program!
Hotel Guests complaints are taken very seriously by Disneyland.

The timing of the program's cancellation surprised me as I thought it would happen before Disneyland reopened.

 

[WonkaKid]

Agreed. Hotel guests make demands. How would they know? I do not know. Disneyland was tired of Hotel Guests paying a premium to stay there and complain. Yes RITR attracted crowds from all over.
Hotel Guests complained and changes were made. Inevitably, many hotel guests complained. Goodbye Annual Passholder Program!

In that case, why not simply allow resort guests in an hour earlier (like an EMH/MM) or implement some other program whereby they’re guaranteed a boarding group? Canceling several million APs seems like an extreme solution to the problem. I suspect that once normalcy has been restored, people will still have trouble getting on that attraction, given that it’s so popular, even though all APs have been euthanized ;-).

The timing of the program's cancellation surprised me as I thought it would happen before Disneyland reopened.

I don’t follow you. It did happen before DL reopened. Did you mean shortly before? Or perhaps wouldn’t happen before?

 

[joseph821]

In that case, why not simply allow resort guests in an hour earlier (like an EMH/MM) or implement some other program whereby they’re guaranteed a boarding group? Canceling several million APs seems like an extreme solution to the problem. I suspect that once normalcy has been restored, people will still have trouble getting on that attraction, given that it’s so popular, even though all APs have been euthanized ;-).


I don’t follow you. It did happen before DL reopened. Did you mean shortly before? Or perhaps wouldn’t happen before?

It was not just the ROR boarding group issue. Hotel guests complained about parks getting crowded after 5pm with local APers coming after work and school and when the So Cal passes were let back in things got worse. All of these complaints year after year add up.

The AP program generates revenue but not as much as the hotels do. The majority of the AP holders were the Flex and the largest chunk the SO CAL Select.

Disneyland created a monster in the DL AP program they have reaped in a lot of revenue but the decision was made to get rid of it because it does not generate as much revenue as the hotels do and the program got so unmanageable.

Creating a guaranteed boarding group is being considered per hotel stay for each room.

Doing an EMH/MM for RITR costs money - labor costs.

I thought when Disneyland announced it was reopening that it would announce the cancellation.

 

[WonkaKid]

It was not just the ROR boarding group issue. Hotel guests complained about parks getting crowded after 5pm with local APers coming after work and school and when the So Cal passes were let back in things got worse. All of these complaints year after year add up.

The AP program generates revenue but not as much as the hotels do. The majority of the AP holders were the Flex and the largest chunk the SO CAL Select.

Disneyland created a monster in the DL AP program they have reaped in a lot of revenue but the decision was made to get rid of it because it does not generate as much revenue as the hotels do and the program got so unmanageable.

Creating a guaranteed boarding group is being considered per hotel stay for each room.

I'm curious: where do you get your information (for example, the AP breakdown)? Is this supposition or verifiable fact? I've always understood that Disney was never especially disclosive when it came to attendance and AP numbers.

With respect to hotel guests complaining about crowds: if Disney is solely motivated by revenue -- as it's been suggested and largely presumed -- the company's preference would surely then be to have more guests in the park spending money even if it did bother hotel guests. If on any given day ten hotel guests complained that crowds were excessive, the soundest business choice surely would be to discount their complaints rather than reduce park attendance by several thousand guests. Would they lose hotel stayers as a result? Perhaps some. But I doubt it would be enough to outweigh the revenue generated by several thousand non-hotel guests. Certainly I've never heard that Disney hotels were having trouble attracting guests.

As in all things, I could be wrong but I suspect there are many factors to which we're not privy that have gone into the decision to eliminate APs.

 

[joseph821]

My friend is a cast member in Disneyland upper management.

I'm curious: where do you get your information (for example, the AP breakdown)? Is this supposition or verifiable fact? I've always understood that Disney was never especially disclosive when it came to attendance and AP numbers.

With respect to hotel guests complaining about crowds: if Disney is solely motivated by revenue -- as it's been suggested and largely presumed -- the company's preference would surely then be to have more guests in the park spending money even if it did bother hotel guests. If on any given day ten hotel guests complained that crowds were excessive, the soundest business choice surely would be to discount their complaints rather than reduce park attendance by several thousand guests. Would they lose hotel stayers as a result? Perhaps some. But I doubt it would be enough to outweigh the revenue generated by several thousand non-hotel guests. Certainly I've never heard that Disney hotels were having trouble attracting guests.

As in all things, I could be wrong but I suspect there are many factors to which we're not privy that have gone into the decision to eliminate APs.

A friend who works at Disneyland for over 25 years in middle management. Hotel guests spend more per capita than AP people. Year after Year.

It is enough to outweigh Annual Passholders who spend less. The SO CAL Select spend very little when compared to hotel guests. No hotel would discount any complaint. Disneyland had to scrap another hotel that they were planning.

Disneyland Hotels do well but are never as full - occupancy wise as Disney World.

The whole addition of Star Wars Land was to make Disneyland more of a resort destination and the AP program interferes with that. A few Billion were spent in Star Wars Land.

Big picture: Hotel guests generate more money - room revenue, spending on food and merchandise and on special events. Conferences at the Hotels generate a huge amount of money as do parties and weddings.

Cancelling the AP program allows Disneyland to focus on capacity attendance and making Disneyland more of a resort like management has wanted to since the late 1980s.

 

[Kender]

I take any statement by someone saying they "know someone high up" without proof of what's being said beyond their word with a huge helping of salt.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

We are from the Bay Area and had Signature Plus APs at DL and Gold APs at WDW. We've been DL pass holders off and on for almost 25 years and WDW for about 3-4. Of course, with both passes we had trips planned near the end of the pass life that would make them pay for themselves. With the park closures, we are now out a lot more money than we will be getting back from Disney. Such a bummer.

As personally disappointed as I am about losing money on our APs, I think for DL a clean slate will probably--hopefully--be a good thing in the end. The parks were way too crowded IMO. I really hope they get rid of the pay over time pass purchase option. It's anecdotal, but I definitely saw a huge uptick in crowds when that started.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I remember when SWGE opened Disney went overboard due to fear of AP crowds and it ended up being empty. I was there the first few weeks with a resort stay and it was absolute bliss for me, but a huge fail for Disney. They have to be careful with the hand that feeds them, and whether we out-of-towners like it or not, that appears to be the locals. I agree with previous posters that they probably get more money from the resort guest big spenders per capita (we've stayed on cash at GC and the nightly rates are crazy), but there aren't enough of them to fill the parks. They need locals. Finding the balance seems to be the difficult thing.

Creating a guaranteed boarding group is being considered per hotel stay for each room.

This is exactly what I'm hoping. As I mentioned above, we took advantage of this during the opening of SWGE, and it was so nice.

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

My friend is a cast member in Disneyland upper management.


A friend who works at Disneyland for over 25 years in middle management. Hotel guests spend more per capita than AP people. Year after Year.

It is enough to outweigh Annual Passholders who spend less. The SO CAL Select spend very little when compared to hotel guests. No hotel would discount any complaint. Disneyland had to scrap another hotel that they were planning.

Disneyland Hotels do well but are never as full - occupancy wise as Disney World.

The whole addition of Star Wars Land was to make Disneyland more of a resort destination and the AP program interferes with that. A few Billion were spent in Star Wars Land.

Big picture: Hotel guests generate more money - room revenue, spending on food and merchandise and on special events. Conferences at the Hotels generate a huge amount of money as do parties and weddings.

Cancelling the AP program allows Disneyland to focus on capacity attendance and making Disneyland more of a resort like management has wanted to since the late 1980s.

I don’t think that’s true, I’m sure there are a lot of people who supposedly know people who work in management that would say the opposite. If you knew someone that worked in management you know that the scrapped Disney hotel was not because of AP holders which is what you are implying.

why would people spend money to stay at a Disney resort when there are cheaper options. I’m just saying Disney wants a full park to make lots of money and AP holders are a huge part of that. And how would you know what AP holders spend, I highly doubt that is information that is allowed to be given out to people even if you may know someone who works there.

 

[joseph821]

I take any statement by someone saying they "know someone high up" without proof of what's being said beyond their word with a huge helping of salt.

That is fine. The AP program is gone. Pass the salt! Been peppered. It is obvious that a DL cast member cannot post online. The program is gone! My friend has no reason to lie. Guess what?
When I lived in CA, I had AP too!

 

[joseph821]

I don’t think that’s true, I’m sure there are a lot of people who supposedly know people who work in management that would say the opposite. If you knew someone that worked in management you know that the scrapped Disney hotel was not because of AP holders which is what you are implying.

why would people spend money to stay at a Disney resort when there are cheaper options. I’m just saying Disney wants a full park to make lots of money and AP holders are a huge part of that. And how would you know what AP holders spend, I highly doubt that is information that is allowed to be given out to people even if you may know someone who works there.

Take a look at Disneyland and Disney financial reports. Listen to their calls with analysts when they talk about stock price.
The Disneyland AP program makes money. Disneyland created too many AP levels. People who work in Guest Relations, Legal and Finance and Communications have access to company reports and financial statements. Someone has to produce data for Disney's quarterly stock reports.

No the hotel was not scrapped by AP. Did not mean to imply that. The city of Anaheim did. I posted that to show Disney wanted more hotel rooms. More hotel rooms more revenue is what I meant to say.

 

[Kender]

That is fine. The AP program is gone. Pass the salt! Been peppered. It is obvious that a DL cast member cannot post online. The program is gone! My friend has no reason to lie. Guess what?
When I lived in CA, I had AP too!

I'm referring to your claims of things your friend has told you. The helping of salt is for your statements. Do you have any additional proof beyond your word? If not, then it's just hearsay. It could be true, but I won't take anything someone says as gospel without actual proof. I don't know who you are. I don't know who your friend is. You're just someone on an internet forum claiming to be sharing insider information.

Until then, I will consider it a rumor/opinion as should everyone else.

 

[joseph821]

We are from the Bay Area and had Signature Plus APs at DL and Gold APs at WDW. We've been DL pass holders off and on for almost 25 years and WDW for about 3-4. Of course, with both passes we had trips planned near the end of the pass life that would make them pay for themselves. With the park closures, we are now out a lot more money than we will be getting back from Disney. Such a bummer.

As personally disappointed as I am about losing money on our APs, I think for DL a clean slate will probably--hopefully--be a good thing in the end. The parks were way too crowded IMO. I really hope they get rid of the pay over time pass purchase option. It's anecdotal, but I definitely saw a huge uptick in crowds when that started.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I remember when SWGE opened Disney went overboard due to fear of AP crowds and it ended up being empty. I was there the first few weeks with a resort stay and it was absolute bliss for me, but a huge fail for Disney. They have to be careful with the hand that feeds them, and whether we out-of-towners like it or not, that appears to be the locals. I agree with previous posters that they probably get more money from the resort guest big spenders per capita (we've stayed on cash at GC and the nightly rates are crazy), but there aren't enough of them to fill the parks. They need locals. Finding the balance seems to be the difficult thing.


This is exactly what I'm hoping. As I mentioned above, we took advantage of this during the opening of SWGE, and it was so nice.

The monthly plans and the low tier passes ruined the AP program.

 

[joseph821]

I'm referring to your claims of things your friend has told you. The helping of salt is for your statements. Do you have any additional proof beyond your word? If not, then it's just hearsay. It could be true, but I won't take anything someone says as gospel without actual proof. I don't know who you are. I don't know who your friend is. You're just someone on an internet forum claiming to be sharing insider information.

Until then, I will consider it a rumor/opinion as should everyone else.

I'm referring to your claims of things your friend has told you. The helping of salt is for your statements. Do you have any additional proof beyond your word? If not, then it's just hearsay. It could be true, but I won't take anything someone says as gospel without actual proof. I don't know who you are. I don't know who your friend is. You're just someone on an internet forum claiming to be sharing insider information.

Until then, I will consider it a rumor/opinion as should everyone else.

It is not gospel. What anyone posts on these boards is rumor. We are not subject to the California Rules of Evidence or the Federal Rules of CIvil Procedure and Evidence on these boards. I was told this a long time ago. What I have posted has been stated before by others. The information is not insider. Check Disney's stock reports. Hotel guests drive revenue. Of course it is hearsay. But guess what the program is gone. THAT is a fact. Thank you for your time.

 

[joseph821]

I'm referring to your claims of things your friend has told you. The helping of salt is for your statements. Do you have any additional proof beyond your word? If not, then it's just hearsay. It could be true, but I won't take anything someone says as gospel without actual proof. I don't know who you are. I don't know who your friend is. You're just someone on an internet forum claiming to be sharing insider information.

Until then, I will consider it a rumor/opinion as should everyone else.

The only reason I said that I knew several cast members is because WonkaBoy wanted me to substantiate what I was saying in response to his posts.

 

[joseph821]

All the paid AP refunds, Disney will use on its taxes as business expenses and off set the losses over a 5 to 10 year period. If the program was so valuable why would they get rid of it?
This was a business decision by Disney. Disney has one duty to increase shareholder value. During this pandemic, shareholder value has increased..stock price is up.
Disney did what was best for its business and shareholders.

The truth is Disney could care less about annual passholders - they care about their bottom line, stock price and the management cares about their careers.

 

[Geemo]

The monthly plans and the low tier passes ruined the AP program.

I hope Disney takes this Covid-Opportunity to create an impartial AP Plan.

I was not a fan of Disneyland's AP monthly payment plan option.
If Disney does a monthly payment plan in the future, it should be available to everyone.
Not just certain zip codes or certain pass levels.

I would like to see Annual Pass Tiers that are equitable for all, regardless of where you live.

Geemo

 

[WonkaKid]

My friend is a cast member in Disneyland upper management.

Gotcha. I'd always understood that AP pass numbers -- like specific attendance -- were considered proprietary and therefore confidential.

A friend who works at Disneyland for over 25 years in middle management. Hotel guests spend more per capita than AP people. Year after Year.

It is enough to outweigh Annual Passholders who spend less. The SO CAL Select spend very little when compared to hotel guests.

If that's right, I wonder, then, why APs weren't eliminated years ago. Whatever the case, it doesn't strike me as a one-or-the-other proposition; it's not do we keep APs or do we keep hotel guests? They've coexisted for years and with able leadership and direction they can continue to. Since Disney will offer memberships (whatever those turn out to be), I suspect -- and none of us know, perhaps not even Disney yet -- the offerings will be similar to APs. Not the same, of course. I also imagine they'll cost markedly more. For many of us, that's largely immaterial. We'll pay what they ask. I've joked to friends many times that, sure, we complain when AP prices increase. But we also continue to pay for them . It's like complaining about paying income tax. The IRS doesn't care if you complain... as long as you pay .

No hotel would discount any complaint.

Absolutely they would. As we all know, some people are entitled, demanding and insist on $10,000 service for a $79.99 room. Businesses discount customer complaints daily. Not blatantly, of course, but behind the scenes of course they do. If businesses gave in to every customer demand, they wouldn't be able to function. Complaints will almost always be heard. But they're not always acted upon in the way a customer would like.

Ask your friend about DL's Magic File. It's a database of problematic guests. Some of them have entries that are pages long. These people will have minor issues and then demand five free passes or something in that vein. Disney does not grant these requests.

Disneyland Hotels do well but are never as full - occupancy wise as Disney World.

I'm not surprised. Larger park(s), larger draw. As I'm sure you know, people also tend to visit DW for a week or two versus DL, which, I suspect is four days, max (in ~ 95% of the cases).

Big picture: Hotel guests generate more money - room revenue, spending on food and merchandise and on special events. Conferences at the Hotels generate a huge amount of money as do parties and weddings.

Of course they do. Few, though, will decline to have their dream wedding or party at a Disney hotel because the parks are full/busy. They've been so for years and likely will be again. Again, I don't accept that memberships (née APs ;-)) and hotel stays can't coexist while revenues are still maximized.

Incidentally, there are approximately 1,850 rooms between the DL and DGC hotels. Presuming 3 people per room, that's 5,550 guests. DL and DCA couldn't hope to profit or even operate if they relied solely on Disney hotel guests, since that number -- 5,550 -- represents about ten percent of just DLs average daily attendance. In short, hotel guests are necessary but not sufficient.

Cancelling the AP program allows Disneyland to focus on capacity attendance and making Disneyland more of a resort like management has wanted to since the late 1980s.

If they've wanted to do it since the 80s, then they can't be very competent execs if it's taken them something like 40 years to finally get it done ;-).

All kidding and divergent opinions aside, I think we're all aware that big changes are coming. People will still go, crowds will still be heavy (once peace has been restored) and people will continue to stay at the hotels. Hopefully sometime in the next few months we can resume regular visits to the place that makes all of us happy.

Side note: a lot of guidance and advice on this board has come from AP holders. Questions are answered, suggestions made, parks maps sent. When people denigrate them/us (not you, @joseph821 but people in general over the past ~ 28 hours), it seems a touch ingracious. In my case, I know that I've helped dozens with specific requests and even the occasional birthday button mailed in advance.

 

[WonkaKid]

The only reason I said that I knew several cast members is because WonkaBoy wanted me to substantiate what I was saying in response to his posts.

Who the heck is WonkaBoy? ;-).