The bus...

[KellyNY]

I actually quite agree with most of this post. I knew we could find some common ground. In particular, I agree with the bolded. I know we'll never completely agree, but that would make life boring.

I also agree that there are a lot of EXTREME cases being mentioned on here just to make or illustrate a point. I really think these extreme cases are rare in the real world (at least I hope so). I do think most people react to the moment and I hope that these examples are just trying to illustrate why someone may not act as expected.

We have more common ground then you think. It is just you do not think much when you help, before someone snapped on me, I mean you go with an instict, and I deal with people getting hurt due to their own stupidity every single day and it does bother me when I see irresponsibility as I know what it can lead to , but both of us help no matter what and that is enough of common ground.

 

[jdb in AZ]

But wouldn't you also expect him to offer his seat to an 80 year old MAN? The gender seems rather irrelevant. Not being snarky, I'm honestly curious.

Those 80-year-olds would be ECV riders so you wouldn't have a choice.

 

[going/again]

One ECV makes 3 seats get folded up. Then the ECV goes in that space, and it is wide enough to stick out into the aisle as well, where many more people could stand - 3-4 people, I'd estimate. Then the person who came in on the ECV has to take a seat, as a person is not permitted to sit on the ECV in transit. That's 7-8 people spaces taken for just one person.

Totally flawed argument if the Ecv wasnt there 3 people would be, the 3/4 people that could stand you are talking about would be standing on their feet, think about the way the seats are, also they can stay on if they are not able to transfer as in the case of a WC/PC so the 7/8 places you believe are being taken is rubbish,

Thats the problem on here so many people who think they know things, actually have no clue.

 

[maxiesmom]

I do not care how many kids you have and how often, please have triplets every year if you want, I do not juge you for that, as there is nothing to judge for, BUT be responsible for all your kids and do not rely on or expect someones help, it may not come an situation you created may bite you badly.

This is my point exactly!!! Take the responsibility for your own family, and stop looking to others to do it for you. And then getting mad and calling them rude or immoral when they don't.

You should also be happy when someone offers you a courtesy, and not angry that they don't.

 

[brunette8706]

We have more common ground then you think. It is just you do not think much when you help, before someone snapped on me, I mean you go with an instict, and I deal with people getting hurt due to their own stupidity every single day and it does bother me when I see irresponsibility as I know what it can lead to , but both of us help no matter what and that is enough of common ground.

*
That's very nice! I agree. I think most people would help out "others" that are "in need". Especially those that are not demanding. For instance there was an older guy on the monorail, I'm guess 75 years old, holding on to the above bars and I asked if he would like to take my seat, and he said, "Oh, are you sure", with a smile on his face. He was so humbled. He just came across as an older man that would have never, EVER demanded a seat, but I knew he was older and frail, so I gave him my seat. I felt great too! After we got to our stop he couldn't thank me enough.

Brunette

 

[goofy4tink]

Those 80-year-olds would be ECV riders so you wouldn't have a choice.

You're kidding right???? My dad would really take issue with that statement. In fact, he would be up and off his seat in order to offer his seat to someone else so fast your head would spin. He's 84.

 

[disneyguy1818]

If an elderly person or a pregnant lady needed my sit, I'd give it up. But, I will not offer my seat to a regular man or woman. To those women who think it is courteous for men to offer you their seat, please tell me, are you "courteous" enough to offer your seat to a man who boards the bus at the next stop? I don't agree that men who give up their seat for a female (simply bc of sex) can be considered courteous when they do not offer their seat to any other man who is standing. Concerning holding doors open- who would shut a door on a person of any sex? I advocate giving up my seat for a person in need, but if everyone gave up his/ her seat for every ordinary man or woman there'd be an incessant game of musical chairs going on. So unless you are visibly in need or verbally express a need- I won't cause more chaos by moving.

 

[Wadecool]

Or she snapped because me an others pointed out her responsibility for her kids as her own choices. Nobody, including AustinTink were asking why she had kids, it was just a point that all of it was her choices. All this snapping and CAPS to me, wrong person to address your anger to in a first place, were completely away from the main point and not even close to be related to the situation.

Just to be clear as half of the posts were deleted, I do not care how many kids you have and how often, please have triplets every year if you want, I do not juge you for that, as there is nothing to judge for, BUT be responsible for all your kids and do not rely on or expect someones help, it may not come an situation you created may bite you badly.

If someone see something wrong with my post or my logic or my view on parenting, go ahead and flame me. It is my personal and professional opinion
since I see due to my job way to many kids getting hurt due to not bad parents but not thinking parents.

Great post Kelly! All of it is very true!

 

[maxiesmom]

You all are just goating each other now

And to the poster who said children are not spawn, I truly thought my niece was a "spawn" when I babysat her this past week. The girl could teach stubborn to a mule. I love her to bits, but boy!

 

[KellyNY]

*
That's very nice! I agree. I think most people would help out "others" that are "in need". Especially those that are not demanding. For instance there was an older guy on the monorail, I'm guess 75 years old, holding on to the above bars and I asked if he would like to take my seat, and he said, "Oh, are you sure", with a smile on his face. He was so humbled. He just came across as an older man that would have never, EVER demanded a seat, but I knew he was older and frail, so I gave him my seat. I felt great too! After we got to our stop he couldn't thank me enough.

Brunette

Those demanding a seat would definitely be out of luck with me. I strongly believe in personal choices BUT no matter how stupid they may be, if I see someone in trouble and about to get hurt, I will help just like everybody else. However I just like many others will not unconditionally jump every time I see someone just uncomfortable.

Funny you mentioned older person while I was thinking of my mother. Older people tend to ignore their problems as sort of protest to getting older. My mother has bones problems. She is so fragile that when my father hugged her, he broke her rib. Unfortunately it is very common for older women. She however will not admit that she needs a seat and will argue with me every time we wait for the next bus.

I also was offered a seat by older gentlemen who probably were raised during times when woman suppose to seat even if this woman is half of his age and looks perfectly fine. Dear ladies, as flattering as it is, please refuse this seat. Older people have way too many problems and all this common courtesy will send them to hospital more then a parent with child or pregnant woman or you, a woman. Not every seat needs to be given and not every seat needs to be taken, just think safety before anything else.

 

[brunette8706]

Those demanding a seat would definitely be out of luck with me. I strongly believe in personal choices BUT no matter how stupid they may be, if I see someone in trouble and about to get hurt, I will help just like everybody else. However I just like many others will not unconditionally jump every time I see someone just uncomfortable.

Funny you mentioned older person while I was thinking of my mother. Older people tend to ignore their problems as sort of protest to getting older. My mother has bones problems. She is so fragile that when my father hugged her, he broke her rib. Unfortunately it is very common for older women. She however will not admit that she needs a seat and will argue with me every time we wait for the next bus.

I also was offered a seat by older gentlemen who probably were raised during times when woman suppose to seat even if this woman is half of his age and looks perfectly fine. Dear ladies, as flattering as it is, please refuse this seat. Older people have way too many problems and all this common courtesy will send them to hospital more then a parent with child or pregnant woman or you, a woman. Not every seat needs to be given and not every seat needs to be taken, just think safety before anything else.

*
WOw, your mom is fragile. My mom seems the same way, very strong willed, for a lack of a better word. My mom is a 68 but doesn't look a day over 55. LOL! But, I do know what you're saying.

I also agree with you about refusing a seat if the man/woman is half your age. Makes perfect sense.

Brunette

 

[pampam]

The days of women being the "weaker sex" are long, long gone. I would hold a door for someone with a stroller, male or female, a wheelchair, male or female, or anyone else who is clearly struggling with full arms, etc. But to hold a door for me just because of my gender seems wrong. I am perfectly capable of opening my own door!

The custom of holding doors for ladies was when they were wearing big hoop skirts. Their arms could not reach the door.
(Also the custom of the mans chair at the head of the table was because it had arms and could not accomodate the hoop skirt.)

I believe one of the reasons the custom of letting ladies sit was because of the high heels they wore. It was difficult for them to balance on stillettos. However, I don't see too many ladies in skirts and high heels in the parks.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Or she snapped because me an others pointed out her responsibility for her kids as her own choices. Nobody, including AustinTink were asking why she had kids, it was just a point that all of it was her choices. All this snapping and CAPS to me, wrong person to address your anger to in a first place, were completely away from the main point and not even close to be related to the situation.

Just to be clear as half of the posts were deleted, I do not care how many kids you have and how often, please have triplets every year if you want, I do not juge you for that, as there is nothing to judge for, BUT be responsible for all your kids and do not rely on or expect someones help, it may not come an situation you created may bite you badly.

If someone see something wrong with my post or my logic or my view on parenting, go ahead and flame me. It is my personal and professional opinion since I see due to my job way to many kids getting hurt due to not bad parents but not thinking parents.

I think I understand your point when you're trying to defend with respect to AustinTink's overall comment. Unfortunately, AustinTink made a huge mistake IMO with a very overt and rude attack to what she perceived was an attack from SmallTownGirl (subtle, but yes I can see how AustinTink was offended). It still didn't give her any right to be so blatantly rude IMO in the response. Two wrongs don't make a right. She could have responded with a bit more kindness or logic to explain rather going out shooting with both guns blazing. They both made an attack (one subtle and one obvious) that the other person felt they needed to defend. I will apologize for neither attack, but will comment that both made some good comments too even if I don't agree completely with them.

Not one person who attacked SmallTownGirl has seemed to acknowledge that she not only expressed her gratitude for the kindness she experienced at WDW, but also that she never expected a seat. Isn't that what so many on this thread are trying to achieve? Don't expect a seat. She didn't, but yet she has been portrayed terribly by several on this thread. Did she go a bit too far and and say that "some" people who don't give seats live by their own concsience? (i.e. a judgement). Yes, she probably shouldn't have judged as that tainted her entire post, but I will point out that she didn't say "no conscience" as was interpreted by AustinTink, but a "different conscience". There is a difference IMO.

We have more common ground then you think. It is just you do not think much when you help, before someone snapped on me, I mean you go with an instict, and I deal with people getting hurt due to their own stupidity every single day and it does bother me when I see irresponsibility as I know what it can lead to , but both of us help no matter what and that is enough of common ground.

I don't know your profession, but it does seem like you see more kids affected by poor circumstances than the average person. You don't seem to apologize for your judgments you make about others and that's fine. I understand you are advocating personal responsibility, which is very admirable, but I think it's a winless battle when you're talking bus etiquette at WDW. Just not something worth getting so worked up for me.

I don't think anyone was purposely trying to put words in your mouth, but your post was inadvertently quoted instead of the AustinTink's. Sorry you had to get thrown into this when I think you only intended to defend the comment about personal reponsibility, not the comments about "having kids too close together" or "breeding". Unfortunately, when you praise an entire quote, it is easy to interpret that you are praising both the good and bad about it. That's why I usually try to stay away from truly inflammatory comments, but sometimes get sucked into the fray as can be seen with this thread. I do regret some of what I have posted today as it was more out of frustration rather than trying to use logic.

I do agree that I go with instinct and not judgment. We were at the DMV this afternoon and gave our very low number to a family who looked like they needed it more than us. The daughter (about 4 or 5) had a broken arm, black eye and fractured face as she had recently fallen from a second story window. The son (under 2 years) was just full of energy. Who knows if it was right to do that or not, but they seemed like they were more frazzled than we were. Sometimes I think we're too nice to strangers, but I doubt if we'll change.

 

[dzorn]

Well then we can agree to disagree.

If someone able bodied will not give a seat to someone in need who has asked nicely for it, then I feel that somehow my stare will drill common sense into them. I am not perfect either so I guess that's where my manners end and my anger at poorly raised people cuts through.

Do you have X-ray vision and carry around the world medical records in your head? Otherwise you have no idea who is able bodied.

If you get on a standing room only bus plan to stand. If you need a seat be a responsible person and rent a car, call a taxi or wait for the next bus to be first on.

Denise in MI

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Not too many kids at WDW...or too many strollers. BUT...perhaps too many parents who think only of their immediate family and forget there are others around them. Too much of the 'you first, right after me' mentality lately.


Ah, my son certainly doesn't consider me the 'fairer sex' and unable to deal with things like doors all by my little self. BUT..he was raised to get up when adults come into a room, to greet people when needed, and to hold doors open for women. He does not charge through a door, with little regard for who is behind him. He does not charge into a car, leaving his wife to climb in with all her packages. Does this make either his wife or his mother weak? Nope. It makes him mannerful...period. I highly doubt anyone is saying that your son should get up, and offer his seat to an 18 y/o young woman. Of course she's able to stand on a bus. But, what about when an 80 y/o woman gets on the bus??? Is that any different??


If I get to that door before my dh or ds, yeah, I open it. If either one gets there at the same time, or before me, then yep, they hold it for me. I, on the other hand, have held plenty of doors for men. It's polite. You hold a door for those behind you.
My dh often carries it to an extreme. I may get to the door first, but he just has to reach around me, in order to get it open and hold it for me. You can carry it too far dear!!!!!


This whole discussion is just nutty. Those goats are looking better all the time. How hard is it to figure out if someone needs a seat more than you do?? Not very. If you choose to remain seated, for whatever reason, so be it. Sit there and don't worry about it. It is a very, very small percentage of people that get all in a dither about 'seating on the buses' and it seems that they all congregate here.

Oh, and another thing??? You really need to be careful how you word things on the internet. Even though you don't mean to be rude, it happens. People can't see your expression, or they don't know exactly how you mean something...and nine times out of ten, they are going to take it the wrong way.

Truly???? Goats? Fairer sex??? Breeding??

Yet another great post - especially the bolded.

This is my point exactly!!! Take the responsibility for your own family, and stop looking to others to do it for you. And then getting mad and calling them rude or immoral when they don't.

You should also be happy when someone offers you a courtesy, and not angry that they don't.

I understand your point, but it's not always practical or going to happen (taking personal responsibility).

I wholeheartedly agree with you that you should not call someone rude or immoral for not giving up their seat. That said, I actually think that the vast majority of those who do get offered a seat were not expecting it at all, but are thankful. It's the minority that speak out that seem to create this stereotype that is repeated/perpetuated in these types of threads. But it's easy to attack the minority who take extreme positions as it's such easy low lying fruit to grab. But willingness to help out others yourself without judgment is in no way trying to say you think those who don't are rude or immoral.

 

[dzorn]

This exactly honestly taking your kids to Disney these days typically teaches them the kind of person not to be when they grow up. I love the numerous examples I can point out to my kids such as people unwilling to give up bus seats because they are tired, and say don't do that when you grow up. It's downright sad that there is no such thing as common courtesy anymore. I hope everyone who needs a bus seat due to having children, being pregnant, elderly, handicapped, ect. get the seat they deserve. To all of those who aren't willing to give up their seats I hope you feel ashamed for the people you have become.

Common courtesy goes both ways. How courtous is someone getting on a standing room only bus and expecting people to stand for them?

Denise in MI

 

[canopynut66]

Ok....as much as I'd like to use the Disney Bus for transport, most being that I drive alot for work...close to 1000 a week.

I still can't get over how rude and inconsiderate people are on the disney bus! So....u all take that bus. AND I will stay at MK till 3am!

IMO Disney needs MORE buses at $90 bucks a day per person basically and NO ONE should be standing...EVER...not safe

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Common courtesy goes both ways. How courtous is someone getting on a standing room only bus and expecting people to stand for them?

Denise in MI

But I think this RARELY happens. Does it happen? Of course. But not everyone who is advocating giving up seats when you can (i.e. both able and willling) is saying that those who get on a crowded bus expect a seat. It's just we think it's a nice gesture to help someone else out without having to try to judge each other's motives. Not every family with small kids, elderly person, etc. who gets on a crowded bus expects a seat. Should they be banned from getting on the bus altogether?

It's easy to say simplistic things like "don't expect a seat", but when numerous posters come in and actually say that exact thing (i.e. they didn't expect a seat, but were happy that they were offered a seat) many of these posters are still attacked.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

IMO Disney needs MORE buses at $90 bucks a day per person basically and NO ONE should be standing...EVER...not safe

Where is this $90 per day coming from? Is that what Disney should charge everyone for buses?

I'm sure the rental car companies would love your idea!!!!

Personally, I like it the way it is. It makes it easier for us to zip around all of you standing on the buses as we drive by you on the way to the parks.

 

[Microcell]

I have two bulging disks in my back and I plan to give my seat up to others in need.. its the nice thing to do!