The Boat may have sailed, but I continue to let Member Services know....

[jarestel]

If people calling to edit reservations were a problem, Disney would have changed the online reservation system to allow editing reservations. Walking is evidently a very marginal problem, changing the rules (or asking to change the rules) causing damage to all members just to close a loophole used by just a few people for a handful of rooms will cause more harm than benefit.

With all due respect, you've stated a lot of opinions as fact. a) We don't know what Disney/DVC may or may not do to address concerns of the membership b) We don't know that walking is a marginal problem c) we don't know that closing this particular loophole results in harm to the membership as a whole, though I do stipulate it will definitely result in harm to those who employ this particular technique.

My point is a simple one: Members looking to make real reservations using their 11-month priority shouldn't be shut out by placeholder reservations. Once the 11-month priority window has passed, none of this matters anymore so as Ben E N points out, people making reservations at 10, 9, 8, months aren't impacted at all.

I suspect I won't change any minds, but that's what I think, LOL!

 

[supersnoop]

The main difference is the reservations aren't being modified on a daily basis.

I hope people aren’t modifying daily. Depending on how many points you have to work with, you should be able to hold a few days. Best case; they have to call every seven days.

 

[zavandor]

With all due respect, you've stated a lot of opinions as fact. a) We don't know what Disney/DVC may or may not do to address concerns of the membership b) We don't know that walking is a marginal problem c) we don't know that closing this particular loophole results in harm to the membership as a whole, though I do stipulate it will definitely result in harm to those who employ this particular technique.

a) we know that they changed the way reservations were being done because of the extra load on MS caused by people having to call day by day to book at 11 and 7 months. We have a precedent of Disney changing things because of impact of the reservation on MS. That's why I deduct that if the load of editing reservations was a problem, Disney would ask IT to change the booking system. Also note that as members we would pay for such a change, so it's not cost that keeps Disney from doing it.

b) People walk reservations only for the "specialty rooms". Somone walking an SSR reservation is just crazy.
Some people walk just the standard rooms at BLT and BWV, value and concierge rooms at AKV, VGF studios. A few nights (like race week ends and early December) may require to walk a few other room types, but it's just a handful nights out of 365. Those rooms are so difficult to get because there are just a few of them, so that's why I say impact is minimal: only a very small percentage or rooms may require walking.
Also, even those special categories do not require walking the whole year. Tomorrow the 7 months window opens for a reservation I need to book to rent my points and BWV standard is available.

c) any suggestion I've seen here will harm members:
- a cancellation fee will be an extra cost that now we don't pay
- require to cancel and re-book for any change could cause the member to loose his reservation entierly
- going back to the old system of booking by end date rather that by start date would be like wlaking every room every day

My point is a simple one: Members looking to make real reservations using their 11-month priority shouldn't be shut out by placeholder reservations. Once the 11-month priority window has passed, none of this matters anymore so as Ben E N points out, people making reservations at 10, 9, 8, months aren't impacted at all.

People already book placeholder reservations waiting to finalize their plans. It's not just walking, it's part of a system that forces you to book 11 months in advance. So what? Should DVC allow to change or cancel a reservation only with a medical certificate?


BTW I think also that on this forum many times when people complain against walkers it's not really that.
I remeber someone saying they saw a night available one day and the next day when the booking window opened it wasn't available anymore. Blame you walkers! My guess is that someone else was quicker at 8:00am.

 

[jarestel]

BTW I think also that on this forum many times when people complain against walkers it's not really that.
I remeber someone saying they saw a night available one day and the next day when the booking window opened it wasn't available anymore. Blame you walkers! My guess is that someone else was quicker at 8:00am.

If walking is as rare and inconsequential as you keep saying, why would you be so adamantly opposed to plugging the loophole? Doing away with something that hardly anybody uses (according to you) should be a no-brainer. I have no investment either way in the walking vs booking brouhaha (other than I just like brouhahas) since I don't book room types that require 8:00 AM day of 11-month booking window to secure. But in the sense of fair play, I wouldn't mind closing the loopholes that in affect allow extending a member's booking priority to more than 11-months. Shouldn't be hard, shouldn't be rocket science, and it shouldn't collapse everything about DVC that we hold near and dear.

 

[jarestel]

I hope people aren’t modifying daily. Depending on how many points you have to work with, you should be able to hold a few days. Best case; they have to call every seven days.

Pardon. My ignorance in the ways of walking reservations is showing.

 

[granmanh603]

All I know is I NEVER had a problem until a few years back. I have been booking the same time of year Oct/Nov @BWV for 17 years, then all of a sudden I could not get a room calling at 9AM at the 11 month window. The only way I found out what was happening(I was booking more than 1 week and I had to call each day to add on day) and finally one CM told me what was happening. I even had one tell me to just to that. Yep. Yeah and screw someone else like I was. No thank you.

 

[zavandor]

If walking is as rare and inconsequential as you keep saying, why would you be so adamantly opposed to plugging the loophole? Doing away with something that hardly anybody uses (according to you) should be a no-brainer. I have no investment either way in the walking vs booking brouhaha (other than I just like brouhahas) since I don't book room types that require 8:00 AM day of 11-month booking window to secure. But in the sense of fair play, I wouldn't mind closing the loopholes that in affect allow extending a member's booking priority to more than 11-months. Shouldn't be hard, shouldn't be rocket science, and it shouldn't collapse everything about DVC that we hold near and dear.

I am not opposed to closed the loophole, the contrary. I am opposed to close it in any of the suggested ways so far.
Can you suggest a fix that wouldn't hurt other members?

All I know is I NEVER had a problem until a few years back. I have been booking the same time of year Oct/Nov @BWV for 17 years, then all of a sudden I could not get a room calling at 9AM at the 11 month window. The only way I found out what was happening(I was booking more than 1 week and I had to call each day to add on day) and finally one CM told me what was happening. I even had one tell me to just to that. Yep. Yeah and screw someone else like I was. No thank you.

Booking for F&W is getting more and more difficult. Calling at 9am means you are behind everyone who books online, walking has no impact on this.
Other members are paying 130-150$ pp on the resale market to be able to book BWV during F&W and they go online right when reservations open. You should do the same if you want to have a chance.

 

[granmanh603]

Oh I guess I did not explain right used to do 9AM no problem the 8 online started and could not get week and then called because I had to add on days one at at time for long reservation missing 1st days only option on line is to wait list all and hope or call at 9. Now this year I booked garden pool after booking whole trip and then wait list whole trip(doubtful it will come thru) or book piecemeal and move I think CM said 4 X they way the unavailable rooms are now. 10 + years booking no problem. Last years a real pain.

 

[CarolMN]

I am not opposed to closed the loophole, the contrary. I am opposed to close it in any of the suggested ways so far.
Can you suggest a fix that wouldn't hurt other members?,.......................

I thought I did when I suggested that MS not allow nights to be dropped from a reservation until 10 months prior to arrival. Dropping nights before the 10 month mark would require cancelling the entire reservation and rebooking.

This simple rule change would stop most walking and also preserves flexibility for those that may need to adjust a reservation due to an airline schedule or book longer vacations in the same resort & villa type.

Don't see how that hurts members ( other than those doing the walking). Would reduce the load on MS, too.

 

[ziravan]

I thought I did when I suggested that MS not allow nights to be dropped from a reservation until 10 months prior to arrival. Dropping nights before the 10 month mark would require cancelling the entire reservation and rebooking.

This simple rule change would stop most walking and also preserves flexibility for those that may need to adjust a reservation due to an airline schedule or book longer vacations in the same resort & villa type.

Don't see how that hurts members ( other than those doing the walking). Would reduce the load on MS, too.

Would love that if I needed to walk my rooms. I have more than half my 500 points in BCV.

Combine this rule change with bank/borrow, the ability to book 30 days at a time, and other points to balance out my trips and I’m in business.

If I needed a room for a week, I have enough points to start trying to hold the room 3 weeks early. 21 days. 21 chances to tie up the week I want.

And since my smaller point holding walkers have been eliminated, my chances are much better.

This rule change would favor high point owners. You’ll move walking from at least more or less egalitarian (anybody in theory could do it) to favoring only a small subset of owners.

At least I’d still be in the “in” group.

(And since my other high point contract is a Poly fixed week, I’m REALLY in business).

 

[CarolMN]

I don't think that members with large amounts of points are doing much walking, or routinely booking the lower cost standard or value studios. YMMV.

 

[Ben E N]

Would love that if I needed to walk my rooms. I have more than half my 500 points in BCV.

Combine this rule change with bank/borrow, the ability to book 30 days at a time, and other points to balance out my trips and I’m in business.

If I needed a room for a week, I have enough points to start trying to hold the room 3 weeks early. 21 days. 21 chances to tie up the week I want.

And since my smaller point holding walkers have been eliminated, my chances are much better.

This rule change would favor high point owners. You’ll move walking from at least more or less egalitarian (anybody in theory could do it) to favoring only a small subset of owners.

At least I’d still be in the “in” group.

(And since my other high point contract is a Poly fixed week, I’m REALLY in business).

Generally people who have 500 points use them for more than one value studio for one week. This is what is typically walked. While you could use all 500 points to do this, it would seem like a big waste of time and energy considering time is money and you have approximately $3000 a year to spend just on dues, not to mention the funds it cost to purchase all of those points.
I am assuming the great majority of walkers are people who value monetary savings greatly over time. Walking to get something like a BW standard studio saves only a couple of dozen points. Worth it to them but most likely not to you.

 

[ziravan]

The point is that right now, the complaint about walking is that people with more motivation can get an advantage. Anybody sufficiently motivated and with at least enogh points to book an extra day or two could do it.

How will people feel about walking if that turns into people with high number of points get an advantage over others?

My thinking is that walking will become vastly more unpopular if it’s limited to high rollers.

 

[ziravan]

I don't think that members with large amounts of points are doing much walking, or routinely booking the lower cost standard or value studios. YMMV.

I’ll concede that for the moment. I have never walked.

Don’t need to do so at BCV. Today.

But going forward based on current trends?

Actually I think the breaking point on this for DVC isn’t going to be walking but it’s root cause: Fall Frenzy.

I expect a reallocation. Eventually.

 

[tjkraz]

My thinking is that walking will become vastly more unpopular if it’s limited to high rollers.

My thinking is that it will become far less commonplace if it ties-up hundreds of points to walk a single studio during Adventure season.

I expect a reallocation. Eventually.

Anecdotally, a reallocation has been justified for more than a decade. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[ziravan]

Generally people who have 500 points use them for more than one value studio for one week. This is what is typically walked. While you could use all 500 points to do this, it would seem like a big waste of time and energy considering time is money and you have approximately $3000 a year to spend just on dues, not to mention the funds it cost to purchase all of those points.
I am assuming the great majority of walkers are people who value monetary savings greatly over time. Walking to get something like a BW standard studio saves only a couple of dozen points. Worth it to them but most likely not to you.

Well I will say that we typically use our points on studios. We have more points because we come. A lot.

It’s not unusual for us to book a F&W BCV studio week. Don’t need to walk for that now.

But if the above rule change came to be and trend continues to the point walking was necessary to book a studio, I would definitely take advantage of my points to push my dates.

 

[ziravan]

My thinking is that it will become far less commonplace if it ties-up hundreds of points to walk a single studio during Adventure season.



Anecdotally, a reallocation has been justified for more than a decade. Hasn't happened yet.

It would become far less common because only a small subset of owners could afford to do it.

But for all the talk, it’s not that common now.

And it would continue but in the form as a de facto “VIP perk”.

 

[ziravan]

In reality, the real battle won’t be for someone who could book 21 days out. (They’ll be the Kings of Booking).

It’ll be those who can book 5 days out vs those who can only book 2 extra days,

And those walkers who can now only force a few days instead of a few weeks will become intense at their windows.

I predict the competition to get a 5 vs 2 day advantage on a room will make booking at 8 am a nightmare - and add many more categories to the need to walk.

Just as FP+ added lines were there weren’t before, making walking shorter but more intense will create unexpected distribution curves.

And it won’t make 8 am 11 month booking easier. Just the opposite.

Not to mention that they’ll now be tying those rooms up for months instead of days. Prepare to add needing to stalk right at 10 months to your list of planning.

 

[SL6827]

It seems to me by looking at ****** that the Club Level rooms at AKL need to be walked all year long in order for those who own there to get one. Maybe I'm wrong, but those seem extremely sought after.

 

[kboo]

In reality, the real battle won’t be for someone who could book 21 days out.

It’ll be those that can book 5 days out vs those that can book 2 extra days,

And those walkers who can now only force a few days instead of a few weeks will become intense at their windows.

I predict the competition to get a 5 vs 2 day advantage on a room will make booking at 8 am a nightmare - and add many more categories to the need to walk.

Just as FP+ added lines were there weren’t before, making walking shorter but more intense will create unexpected distribution curves.

And it won’t make 8 am 11 month booking easier. Just the opposite.

Not to mention that they’ll now be tying those rooms up for months instead of days. Prepare to add needing to stalk right at 10 months to your list of planning.

I'm not sure I understand the vilification of walking while at the same time everyone advocates having a "backup" reservation while working the waitlist. The latter ties up rooms for a lot longer than walking does. And if you're doing the same during the 0-7mo period, each time there's a change you're arguably causing many more shifts in the system than at 11 months, when it's limited by home resort and room type.

Example: By the time we got our points, we were 9mo out. NO studios at BLT had full availability. I did WL part of a studio LV and got it. I held that room until 7mo+a few days, then switched to a BWV 1br p/g. THEN pieced together my final stay, back at BLT in a 1br std, one day at a time. During this time, the BWV 1br p/g did get booked up. So what should I have done? Let go of the room I knew I had, before getting the one I wanted? Not even stalked the RAT and used the WL? Arguably by the logic against walking here, I "should" have WL'd my whole stay at once instead of tying up my points to stalk/WL my way one day at a time? Oh, and throw into the mix that the WL doesn't always work! So for every "solution" to curb walking, there are unintended collateral consequences for other people who can change their minds, have family back out, have family emergencies, etc.

As @ziravan and @zavandor have suggested, the proposed fixes to walking will favor people who have enough points to tie them up in "backup" reservations they can cancel later (e.g. as a BLT owner, holding a LV reservation while waiting for either SV or TPV), as they wait for the inevitable changes later. Proposed fixes to walking will incentivize stalking the RAT and using 3d party apps for text notifications and make the WL even less reliable. Then we'll have debates here about whether unreliability of the WL creates the stalking or whether stalking itself is against the "spirit" of the rules.