the Blessed Virgin Mary

[JoyG]

As the Orthodox say Theotokos, God Bearer. And the Veneration of Mary comes from the same place that scripture does - the Tradition of the early Church, inSpired to be sure, but through human agency as well

That's where protestants differ. We don't believe that the tradition of the early church is inspired, but we do agree that scripture is inspired by God.


I'm with a few other posters on this thread, I believe Mary was a special woman to be chosen however I don't pray to her or ask her help. My only intercessor is Jesus.

I understand the Catholic church says they don't worship her (instead ask her to pray for them). However, the few times I've been in a Catholic church (most recently for a wedding), I saw people bowing in front of her statue? Can anyone tell me what that was for?

 

[LindsayDunn228]

That's where protestants differ. We don't believe that the tradition of the early church is inspired, but we do agree that scripture is inspired by God.


I'm with a few other posters on this thread, I believe Mary was a special woman to be chosen however I don't pray to her or ask her help. My only intercessor is Jesus.

I understand the Catholic church says they don't worship her (instead ask her to pray for them). However, the few times I've been in a Catholic church (most recently for a wedding), I saw people bowing in front of her statue? Can anyone tell me what that was for?

Yes, I agree. Great post!

(emphasis mine)
I'm interested in the answers to this, too.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

That's where protestants differ. We don't believe that the tradition of the early church is inspired, but we do agree that scripture is inspired by God.


I'm with a few other posters on this thread, I believe Mary was a special woman to be chosen however I don't pray to her or ask her help. My only intercessor is Jesus.

I understand the Catholic church says they don't worship her (instead ask her to pray for them). However, the few times I've been in a Catholic church (most recently for a wedding), I saw people bowing in front of her statue? Can anyone tell me what that was for?

Joy! Yo, yo, yo, wassup my peep?

Answering to best of my ability:

'Cause they felt like it. Tradition for them, I guess. I don't do it. I don't remember ever being taught that you're supposed to. I don't see anyone do it when I'm in church.

Mary statues are usually in the front of the church, aren't they? I dunno why people are bowing up there. Do you mean bowing like actors after a play, or like Japanese people who are greeting someone? Or like a nod of the head?

Sometimes I see people bow on one knee before entering their pew. Some folks just like to do it...you don't have to.

Pretty much all you have to do is show up and say the prayers. Connecting with God is encouraged. (So is singing, but you won't catch me doing it!)

I hated going to church as a kid. Had to go 2x/week, once with school and once with Mom. I thought the Mary statue was the prettiest one, and I liked babies (she was holding Jesus), so I'd look at it while I daydreamed. She looked so peaceful, good, and kind (and pretty). I always wanted to be like I thought she was. Ended up FAR from it!

 

[JoyG]

Joy! Yo, yo, yo, wassup my peep?

LOL! I figured I'd see you pop up on this thread!

Thanks for answering my question. My brother got married in a Catholic church and they bowed at various saint's statues as part of the ceremony. I think it was more like a kneel instead of a Japanese bow. There were statues all around the room that they made their way to.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

LOL! I figured I'd see you pop up on this thread!

Thanks for answering my question. My brother got married in a Catholic church and they bowed at various saint's statues as part of the ceremony. I think it was more like a kneel instead of a Japanese bow. There were statues all around the room that they made their way to.

Just popped in for you.

Got me about making their way around the room bowing to statues. Weddings can be kinda customized, maybe they just liked it.

Totally not a regular thing. You go to communion, get your wine (if you want, not required) and walk on back to your seat to wait until everyone is done.

Now, will you please explain to me why the Baptists have 17 Ten Commandments?!

 

[JoyG]

Now, will you please explain to me why the Baptists have 17 Ten Commandments?!

In our zeal we realized that 10 just weren't enough!

 

[JVL1018]

Your description of the Saints role is what the Church teaches - we are in communion with them, and they are intercessors. They do not grant any petition in their own power. That is often misunderstood by Protestants

I agree(I am Protestant)..but I believe that is because most Catholics I have known says they pray TO Mary or TO the saints.
A Catholic friend told me a few years ago that she doesn't pray to the saints, but that she asks them for prayers the same way we would ask our family and friends to pray for us..and that is what Catholics are supposed to do.

That makes total sense to me.

 

[DISUNC]

I understand the Catholic church says they don't worship her (instead ask her to pray for them). However, the few times I've been in a Catholic church (most recently for a wedding), I saw people bowing in front of her statue? Can anyone tell me what that was for?

Mary is a HUGE part of Catholic Church. She is very much revered & worshipped. As a Catholic who went to Catholic school as a child, come May we had the annual May procession in honor of Mary. It is a really BIG deal. There is also the Feast of the Immaculate conception in December, which is a holy day of obligation. It is also tradtional at a Catholic wedding to present the statue of Mary with flowers, I think it may symbolize fertility. Not to sure on that. Catholics do pray TO Mary, as in the "Hail Mary". Catholics acctually pray to her asking for her to pray.

 

[DISUNC]

I agree(I am Protestant)..but I believe that is because most Catholics I have known says they pray TO Mary or TO the saints.
A Catholic friend told me a few years ago that she doesn't pray to the saints, but that she asks them for prayers the same way we would ask our family and friends to pray for us..and that is what Catholics are supposed to do.

That makes total sense to me.

No, Catholics indeed pray to Saints. There are many prayers to Saints. All Saints have very specific causes. For instance, St. Jude we would pray for the impossible. St. Anthony would be prayed to to find something lost. St. Francis you would pray to for animals....etc.

 

[Rella Bella]

Mary is a HUGE part of Catholic Church. She is very much revered & worshipped. As a Catholic who went to Catholic school as a child, come May we had the annual May procession in honor of Mary. It is a really BIG deal. There is also the Feast of the Immaculate conception in December, which is a holy day of obligation. It is also tradtional at a Catholic wedding to present the statue of Mary with flowers, I think it may symbolize fertility. Not to sure on that. Catholics do pray TO Mary, as in the "Hail Mary". Catholics acctually pray to her asking for her to pray.

I bet you aren't a practicing Catholic, are you?? Most of what you described is not practiced, it certainly isn't in my parish. You emphasis "worshipped" but if you read the catechism you won't find that word in regard to Mary or any other saint. If you are remembering what you were taught as a child -- depending on your age -- the church has changed in both belief and practice since Vatican II, so unless you practice the Catholic faith now, it may not be fair for you to say what we do or do not believe or practice.

As for the "Hail Mary" it is referred to as a prayer but the words of the first part are basically just quoting scripture (from Luke) and then asking for her prayers at the end.

"Hail Mary, full of grace.
Blessed are thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death. Amen"

From Luke chapter 1
vs: 46And Mary said:
"My soul glorifies the Lord
47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
And
vs: 39At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. 41When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!

I was taught that "Mother of God" is more about Jesus than about Mary.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think it makes Protestants scratch their heads for 2 reasons. 1) The Bible says not to try to communicate with the dead and 2) The Bible says that Jesus is our "High Priest".

I also believe Mary was very special--chosen by God to give birth to Jesus Christ. I believe we are told she was a vigin at the time of his conception (Virgin Mary) but afterward, she had other children so she didn't remain a virgin. She was married. Just because she was married and had other children wouldn't make her having children with her husband a sin. Sex within marriage is not sinful in the eyes of our God. It is a gift. So for Mary to go on and have children doesn't flaw her in any way. There has only been one perfect, sinless person. There only needed to be one. All that needed to be done was done through Jesus Christ's actions on that cross and in that tomb. But God definitely loved Mary very much for her to be chosen to bear His son. I take nothing away from her except that I do not think she was a sinless human as Christ was.
The Holy Spirit is our innercessor through prayer. Even when we aren't sure of what to say, He helps convey to God what we try and need to say.
JMHO.

(Hi Mouse!!)

 

[DISUNC]

I bet you aren't a practicing Catholic, are you?? Most of what you described is not practiced, it certainly isn't in my parish. You emphasis "worshipped" but if you read the catechism you won't find that word in regard to Mary or any other saint. If you are remembering what you were taught as a child -- depending on your age -- the church has changed in both belief and practice since Vatican II, so unless you practice the Catholic faith now, it may not be fair for you to say what we do or do not believe or practice.....

Lets just say 'practicing' Catholic is a very obscure term. What one person believes is practicing, and what another person believes is 'practicing' can be two widely different views. There is no complete set of rules on what is 'practicing.'

However I will say that I do not attend Sunday mass on a regular interval.

What I described is from my own personal experiences and is a VERY ACURATE & TRUTHFUL. I grew up in Brooklyn NY and these were all very common practices then and still. And my teachings were all post Vatican II, 60's 70's! Saints & The Blessed Mother WERE VERY MUCH A PART of the teachings of the Catholic church. In fact most churches are named after Saints and Mary. Cathechism is only one book from which we learned from. There were many other books also used in my religious upbringing.

It is also known that not every parish practices the faith in the same way. The rules are very much interpeted differently from parish to parish.

Please let me give a example....very recently I attended 2 nuptial weddings.

One was in my parish, and the other was in another parish 5 miles away.

My Parish, the Wedding March was played upon the Brides entrance. The Bride & the Groom sat together side by side on the alter. The priest was rather jovial and in a joyful spirit of the occasion. There were a statue of the Blessed Virgin and a statue of the churches namesake.

The following week, I attended another wedding at the 2nd parish. The only music allowed was hymns, no 'Wedding March'. The Bride & Groom sat at opposite ends of the alter, until the very end of the ceremony. There was only the crucifix statue. The priest was rather somber & serious. More of a fire & brimstone kind of guy. And he wore sandals, which I NEVER saw before.

Yet both were Roman Catholic nuptial ceremonies. The base was the same, yet they were widely two vastly different ceremonies.

How you practice your religion in your parish, is not necessarily how I practice my religion at my parish.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Now, will you please explain to me why the Baptists have 17 Ten Commandments?!

I'm Baptist Do you care to elaborate? I don't have a clue what you are referring to

 

[froglady]

I'm Baptist Do you care to elaborate? I don't have a clue what you are referring to

I can think of a couple, at least that I've heard about.

Thou shalt not drink alcohol.
Thou shalt not dance.
Thou shalt not play cards.

DM was raised Baptist, and broke them all.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I can think of a couple, at least that I've heard about.

Thou shalt not drink alcohol.
Thou shalt not dance.
Thou shalt not play cards.

DM was raised Baptist, and broke them all.

Oh, ok. The only one I ever saw was the alcohol. The church covenant (at least the one where I grew up) says to abstain from alcohol.

 

[sodaseller]

That's where protestants differ. We don't believe that the tradition of the early church is inspired, but we do agree that scripture is inspired by God.

Except that the Canon was selected by the early Church. If Scripture is inSpired, so is the early church and its traditions. That's how the Bible was put together. There are many references in scripture that made it into the Canon to stories that did not. There's no separating the two

 

[auntpolly]

Since I grew up Protestant I can see where Protestants might be quite confused by the roles of Mary and the saints, but after much study with priests and reflection I've come to the conclusion that it's very much semantics and not as weird as it sounds.

We ask Mary to intercede for us. I know that sounds weird, but anyone who has sat by a parent's grave, for instance and "talked" to them, can surely understand. Isn't there a part of you that feels like they "hear" you. We are all "saint" worthy, according to the church. They aren't deitiies, just ordinary folks that lead extraordinary lives.

For me, Mary is the feminine side of the church and gives women power and a voice -- respect for us that I think some other religions lack (for me, anyway.) She's one of the reasons I became a Catholic.

 

[Grumpy's Wife]

I pray to Mary all the time. Especially if it is something motherly.

 

[JoyG]

I'm Baptist Do you care to elaborate? I don't have a clue what you are referring to

Actually the Baptists don't have 17 Commandments. That's an inside joke btwn Mouse and Me from a thread a few weeks ago.

We only have 10 but we discovered that the Protestant, Catholic and Jewish faiths seperate the scripture in different places and we each have a set of 10 Commandments that read differently.

 

[JoyG]

Except that the Canon was selected by the early Church. If Scripture is inSpired, so is the early church and its traditions. That's how the Bible was put together. There are many references in scripture that made it into the Canon to stories that did not. There's no separating the two

That's a leap most Protestants don't make. The Bible does say that Scripture is inspired (All scripture is God-Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 2 Tim 3:16) but it does not say that the Church is inspired.

As to how the scriptures could be inspired without the same happening to the Church, we believe that God promised that the scriptures would be inspired and therefore there was some kind of supernatural protection to them that the early church didn't necessarily have.