thanks

[Fritochips4u]

If all fails and the economy goes south you go to Bankruptcy. There will be a lot of people doing that by the end of this year. You get to keep your house, your cars and your stuff. No credit for 10 years is a good way to teach you how to use your money wisely and pay cash. And then you can start to save for the next big vacation.

Are you kidding me? Do you understand the impact of having a bankrupcy on your record? Most employers do credit reports on their employees. Bankrupcies increase the likelihood of embezzelment, etc. People lose their jobs, get passed over for promotions, etc. This can really screw you for a very long time! Don't do this, please! How 'bout you start that cash thing now and avoid the bankrupcy. This is just wrong!

If you're relying on a WDW trip to fix your marriage, you have more problems then just the debt. A trip thats putting you deeper into debt will only make the marriage situation worse.



Nice way to think! And there's more to bankruptcy then that.

As someone who's gone through bankrutpcy due to medical bills, let me start off by saying that there is alot said above that is simply not true.

First, you don't go without credit for 10 years after filing. You could go get a credit card the day of your discharge.

Second, yes, there is an impact on your credit for having a bankruptcy...but it's not as bad as one would think. Most employers do NOT pull credit reports on their employees, unless the position entails dealing with money or a financial position of some sort. People don't "lose their jobs or get passed over for a promotion" due to bankrupcies. To do so would be discrimination. MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW YOU'VE FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.

People that have filed bankruptcy can actually get better rates than those who haven't because they can't file bankruptcy again, so the money is almost guaranteed.

OP, if it were me, I would go on vacation. Going through having cancer has made me realize life is too short to not spend quality time with your family.

Whatever you decide, good luck to you.

 

[RMulieri]

VENT>>>Not to start a huge debate here...but does anyone wonder why this country is financially in the toilet? look at the bankruptcy laws.Anyone can live an extravagant lifestyle they can't afford rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars...declare bankruptcy and then get more credit and do it again.Seriously, if you are in that over your head, be responsible don't make the other millions of Americans pay for irresponsibilty wit h higher interest rates and go under because of you.BTW filing for bankruptcy is no small thing..I did it , and as a result I did not get approved for a car loan, or get any credit cards until after the 7 yrs passed ( it used to be 7 yrs) Kind of hard to live you life when no one will give you a loan,extend you credit, allow you on a payment plan, or give you a car loan.

 

[jellybeans0607]

VENT>>>Not to start a huge debate here...but does anyone wonder why this country is financially in the toilet? look at the bankruptcy laws.Anyone can live an extravagant lifestyle they can't afford rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars...declare bankruptcy and then get more credit and do it again.Seriously, if you are in that over your head, be responsible don't make the other millions of Americans pay for irresponsibilty wit h higher interest rates and go under because of you.BTW filing for bankruptcy is no small thing..I did it , and as a result I did not get approved for a car loan, or get any credit cards until after the 7 yrs passed ( it used to be 7 yrs) Kind of hard to live you life when no one will give you a loan,extend you credit, allow you on a payment plan, or give you a car loan.

Bankruptcy laws have changed, You no longer get off scott free. You now have to actually pay off the debt you collected, or at least the amout your bankruptcy lawyer bargains down to.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm in the minority here, but I would absolutely go on the vacation and as other people have mentioned simply try to cut the costs that are still outstanding on the vacation as much as possible. It sounds like you've been looking forward to this for a long time and don't go on vacation very often (if you've been waiting 4 years for this one). Yes, $6000 is a lot for one vacation but if you only go every 4 or 5 years....

Although, I do agree with the majority that it is stressful to be in so much debt (I'm no stranger to that much debt myself), my personal feelings are that you will create so many wonderful memories of you family on your trip and it might give you the boost in your marriage and family relationship that you need to turn things around.

I know that's no the most "responsible" way to see things, but to me creating memories is just as important as having bills paid off (assuming you can still make your payments and have a plan to improve things).

Good luck and I truly hope you have a magical trip!

I'm with you. We've never been quite that far in the hole, but we've definitely had times where the money we spent on vacations could have been put to a more practical use. But the thing is, the debt will keep; the kids won't. Medical debt in particular tends to linger when you're uninsured/uninsurable. By the time you get one thing paid off, you've accumulated more to add to the pile, and if you wait until you're out of debt to take a vacation the kids will be grown and gone.

I'd cut back where I could and make it a more frugal Disney vacation, but I wouldn't cancel. Especially with thousands of dollars in non-refundables out; the dwelling on throwing all that money away alone would make the situation feel 1000 times worse to me.

 

[Fritochips4u]

VENT>>>Not to start a huge debate here...but does anyone wonder why this country is financially in the toilet? look at the bankruptcy laws.Anyone can live an extravagant lifestyle they can't afford rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars...declare bankruptcy and then get more credit and do it again.Seriously, if you are in that over your head, be responsible don't make the other millions of Americans pay for irresponsibilty wit h higher interest rates and go under because of you.BTW filing for bankruptcy is no small thing..I did it , and as a result I did not get approved for a car loan, or get any credit cards until after the 7 yrs passed ( it used to be 7 yrs) Kind of hard to live you life when no one will give you a loan,extend you credit, allow you on a payment plan, or give you a car loan.

Bankruptcy laws have changed, You no longer get off scott free. You now have to actually pay off the debt you collected, or at least the amout your bankruptcy lawyer bargains down to.

Again, many statements not true.

I was discharged a few months ago. Since then, I have bought a car, refinanced my home at a lower rate and have 2 credit cards with rates in the 6% range.

Jellybeans, yes bankruptcy laws changed, but do you know *how* they changed? All that changed is that the filer is required by law to take 2 classes and be within the income means. That's it.

If you're in a chapter 13, then you are required to pay off your debt. A chapter 7 allows you to walk away, free and clear.

 

[jellybeans0607]

Again, many statements not true.

I was discharged a few months ago. Since then, I have bought a car, refinanced my home at a lower rate and have 2 credit cards with rates in the 6% range.

Jellybeans, yes bankruptcy laws changed, but do you know *how* they changed? All that changed is that the filer is required by law to take 2 classes and be within the income means. That's it.

If you're in a chapter 13, then you are required to pay off your debt. A chapter 7 allows you to walk away, free and clear.

I've never declared banckruptcy. It was my impression that with a chapter 7 you dont get to keep your home and other saleble items. I thought everything needed to be liquidated to pay the debt.
Where as a 13 you pay your debt and keep your assests.
I was also under the impression that the new laws made it a lot harder to declare either. Not just that you had to take a class or 2.

 

[crisi]

As credit tightens, you may discover that bankruptcy has more consequences than it did three weeks ago.

And employers can check your credit if you gave them permission when hired. And they can terminate for any reason that isn't legally protected - "I was a financial idiot" is not a legally protected class. Many companies now run credit checks as a prereq to hiring, so even if your current company doesn't - you may wind up looking for a job (layoffs are happening in a lot of places) that requires a credit check.

 

[Fritochips4u]

I've never declared banckruptcy. It was my impression that with a chapter 7 you dont get to keep your home and other saleble items. I thought everything needed to be liquidated to pay the debt.
Where as a 13 you pay your debt and keep your assests.
I was also under the impression that the new laws made it a lot harder to declare either. Not just that you had to take a class or 2.

In a chapter 7, you are allowed to exempt (keep) your home, cars, and items in your home. Nothing is liquidated, unless you own furs, expensive jewelry, etc....They don't come in and take your stereo system (unless it's worth 10K) and sell it.

Even if you OWE on items, such as furniture, 9 times out of 10 they won't come and take it unless it's expensive.

The new laws require filers to take 2 classes. One after filing and one after your 341 meeting with the trustee. You also have to qualify within your states' median income. Generally, if you make more than your state's income, you can still file a Chapter 7...it's just more difficult to do so.

 

[jellybeans0607]

In a chapter 7, you are allowed to exempt (keep) your home, cars, and items in your home. Nothing is liquidated, unless you own furs, expensive jewelry, etc....They don't come in and take your stereo system (unless it's worth 10K) and sell it.

Even if you OWE on items, such as furniture, 9 times out of 10 they won't come and take it unless it's expensive.

The new laws require filers to take 2 classes. One after filing and one after your 341 meeting with the trustee. You also have to qualify within your states' median income. Generally, if you make more than your state's income, you can still file a Chapter 7...it's just more difficult to do so.

Good to know.

Out of curiousity, if you dont mind me asking, what is the average cost of a bankruptcy?

 

[Fritochips4u]

As credit tightens, you may discover that bankruptcy has more consequences than it did three weeks ago.

And employers can check your credit if you gave them permission when hired. And they can terminate for any reason that isn't legally protected - "I was a financial idiot" is not a legally protected class. Many companies now run credit checks as a prereq to hiring, so even if your current company doesn't - you may wind up looking for a job (layoffs are happening in a lot of places) that requires a credit check.

And, as credit tightens and the economy goes down the toilet, you might find that there will be MANY MORE people filing for bankruptcy than ever before.

Yes, there are employers that check your credit, but there are MANY MANY that don't.

 

[Fritochips4u]

Good to know.

Out of curiousity, if you dont mind me asking, what is the average cost of a bankruptcy?

Mine was $2K, plus the court costs ($300) and class fees ($100). It really just depends on how "involved" your case is. Mine was pretty simple. They CAN range up to $3K-$4K, I've seen.

Edited to add that attornies won't file any paperwork until they are paid in full...LOL

 

[jellybeans0607]

Mine was $2K, plus the court costs ($300) and class fees ($100). It really just depends on how "involved" your case is. Mine was pretty simple. They CAN range up to $3K-$4K, I've seen.

Edited to add that attornies won't file any paperwork until they are paid in full...LOL

Which is so strange, because of course if you are filing you don't have any money, lol. If one were to declare, would they just stop paying their bills so they could save the $3K? What a scary limbo to be in, what if the courts said no? Or do they not say no?

 

[crisi]

And, as credit tightens and the economy goes down the toilet, you might find that there will be MANY MORE people filing for bankruptcy than ever before.

Yes, there are employers that check your credit, but there are MANY MANY that don't.

Yep, which is why credit is tightening. Its already happening.

And many employers don't, but more and more do each year. In certain industries its pretty much always done, and almost always done for highly paid jobs.

 

[RMulieri]

I'm with you. We've never been quite that far in the hole, but we've definitely had times where the money we spent on vacations could have been put to a more practical use. But the thing is, the debt will keep; the kids won't. Medical debt in particular tends to linger when you're uninsured/uninsurable. By the time you get one thing paid off, you've accumulated more to add to the pile, and if you wait until you're out of debt to take a vacation the kids will be grown and gone.

I'd cut back where I could and make it a more frugal Disney vacation, but I wouldn't cancel. Especially with thousands of dollars in non-refundables out; the dwelling on throwing all that money away alone would make the situation feel 1000 times worse to me.

Sometimes you do need to live a little.But these bad economic times are not those times.I understand The kids will not always be little and you will be making memories etc...BUT there would be bigger problems ( like putting food on the table and having a roof over your head) should the bottom drop out on you..look around it is happening. I agree with you that if the OP really MUST go, then scale the trip way back 15 days at peak rates not smart.Heck, I am not in any debt and I could not comfortably afford 15 days during value season.A week was about as far as I could go to comfortably enjoy my trip and not have to worry even the slightest.If I were in that muc hdebt ( and I once was) I had to put off my disney trips,vacations etc for a long time.

 

[cheerforchelsea]

I would cut back on the vacation every place possible and utilize the non-refundable $6000 (and VERY LITTLE MORE). I have been in debt before from huge medical bills (Husband with cancer bills that insurance did not cover). Enjoy what you have already paid for and can't get back!!

 

[tnd]

I want to clear up a couple bankruptcy comments. The new law passed in 2005 does require financial course requirements. Also, most people who could have filed chapter 7 (liquidation), still can file it. Only people with a certain level of income are now required to file Ch. 13 (you keep your assets, but commit to paying back debt for 3-5 years). Only about 10% of all filers are caught by the new requirements.

What will happen if someone files Chapter 7 bankruptcy is that you are allowed to keep certain things up to certain levels (called exemptions). This means you get to keep a car worth about $3000 (above what you owe if you don't own it outright). Exemption amounts vary by state. You can keep a certain amount of home equity. You can only keep a few thousand dollars worth of household goods. Theoretically, if you had a second car, or household goods worth a lot, you would have to sell them and give the excess to your creditors. Most people who file Ch. 7 don't have anything above the exemption amounts anyway, so they don't lose things.

Frankly, it horrifies me that people are so casual about filing bankruptcy, especially when advocating taking an excessively expensive vacation before filing. One thing to be aware of is that if the OP were to file close to the time he or she took the vacation, the discharge could be denied for filing in bad faith. Trustees and creditors will have access to all of the financial records and they will know exactly what was spent, and where.

Also, as the credit market tightens, even people with good credit can't count on being able to tap it. I suspect that people with bankruptcy filings on their records will have a much harder time getting credit now. Furthermore, if one finds themselves losing their home or their job, a recent bankruptcy is not something I'd want to deal with on my credit report when looking to rent an apartment or get a new job. Bankruptcy should be a last resort for people who have suffered a serious loss (job loss, medical problems, etc.), not for people who choose to spend money they can't afford on vacations.

Please note, I am not replying to the OP here, just the people who are commenting on how filing bankruptcy has no consequences.

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Frankly, it horrifies me that people are so casual about filing bankruptcy, especially when advocating taking an excessively expensive vacation before filing.

I totally agree. The OP came looking for advice, and some of it is completely irresponsible.

The OP never brought up bankruptcy and has some tough decisions to make. OP, best of luck to you in making the right decision for your family!

 

[Fritochips4u]

Frankly, it horrifies me that people are so casual about filing bankruptcy, especially when advocating taking an excessively expensive vacation before filing. One thing to be aware of is that if the OP were to file close to the time he or she took the vacation, the discharge could be denied for filing in bad faith. Trustees and creditors will have access to all of the financial records and they will know exactly what was spent, and where.

Not true....There was a woman on a board I am a member of (bkforum) that took a trip, to Disney in fact, 3 months before filing....and her bk went off without a hitch.

Trustees look at your BANK records...not your credit card statements. Creditors generally fight luxury charges if they total $4000 or more...otherwise, it's not worth their time and $$ to dispute your bk.

 

[tnd]

You are giving really irresponsible and IMO reprehensible advice. You know of *one* person who took a vacation after filing, which doesn't prove much of anything. It would not surprise me if we see creditors more carefully reviewing filings now that they are not making as much money anymore, and the number of filings increases. I certainly hope they will be challenging bad faith filings more than they have been.

I don't care to get into an argument with you over this, but I hope that other readers here understand that there can be serious and long-lasting consequences of filing bankruptcy, and it is not something to be entered into lightly.

 

[castlemom3]

I am so sorry for causing such an uproar here on the DIS! I have made a decision, regardless if it is the right decision in others eyes or not, but we have decided to go with very limited $$ spent. We have been planning this trip for a long time and my babies are not going to be babies forever. It is getting more and more expensive to do anything and if we keep putting this off...we will regret it.

Thank you VERY much for all of your thoughts and ideas. Though true, this debt did not come over night, but we had 3 very large bills that we received due to medical within the last week and started getting sick of the idea that we have alot of $$ going out the door.

Time and life is soooo short and I have to appreciate the time I have with my family. I have this responsibility to pay down this debt on my back and was just wondering what others would do. Thanks for all the thoughts!!