Texas school attendance policy and cruise dates

[cruiser21]

I don't remember seeing that. Would you mind pasting that in.

No I don't feel like arguing with you. Have a great night OK. I never thought saying posters on this board are probably successful and capable of making decisions for their children's education would be interpreted to mean "money equals success". It's amazing the way things get twisted and you only quoted half my post.

I guess if I said everyone that pulls their kid out of school is a bad parent and people on this board are too stupid to know what's best for their kid that would be OK.

I give up. Like I said have a great night. I'm done.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think it was Common Core or a variant . It was OK. My DD learned math and I learned whatever the heck it was to help her out. It must have worked because she just took Calculus as a freshman in college and did fine . The problem wasn't that I didn't know "elementary math" enough to teach my DD. I didn't know the method well enough right out of the gate and kids were tested on the methodology used to get the correct answer as much as the answer itself.

It's totally the method for sure.

Up until 8th grade I was really good at math but suddenly I stopped being as good at it. My husband on the other hand has a degree in aerospace engineering but practices as a mechanical engineer. I'm hopeful he'll be the go-to person for math lol--funny about @Pens Fan 's story about the engineers. That is unless the school gives me a crash course in how they are teaching it given how it's quite a bit different than how I was taught

 

[YawningDodo]

It's totally the method for sure.

Up until 8th grade I was really good at math but suddenly I stopped being as good at it. My husband on the other hand has a degree in aerospace engineering but practices as a mechanical engineer. I'm hopeful he'll be the go-to person for math lol--funny about Pens Fan 's story about the engineers. That is unless the school gives me a crash course in how they are teaching it given how it's quite a bit different than how I was taught

Yeah -- I learned Old Math (is that what we're calling it?) but even back then you had to show your work in order to get full credit in math, and you had to show that you knew how to do it the way you were taught. You can get a right answer by accident sometimes even if you don't know what you're doing, and they want to be sure you can actually replicate it. From what I've seen of New Math...it looks initially very confusing if you're not used to doing it that way, but when I read a few explanations that started to go into why it works the way it does, it wasn't as weird as it looks from the outside.

Didn't really think about the schools giving parents a crash course, but honestly? If they're not already doing that, it'd be a really good idea. Kids benefit from their parents being involved, but if the parents don't know how to help them...well....

Also, little off topic maybe, but in the new Incredibles 2 trailer you can see Mr. Incredible freaking out over Dash's homework because he doesn't understand New Math. Loved it.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Yeah -- I learned Old Math (is that what we're calling it?) but even back then you had to show your work in order to get full credit in math, and you had to show that you knew how to do it the way you were taught. You can get a right answer by accident sometimes even if you don't know what you're doing, and they want to be sure you can actually replicate it. From what I've seen of New Math...it looks initially very confusing if you're not used to doing it that way, but when I read a few explanations that started to go into why it works the way it does, it wasn't as weird as it looks from the outside.

Didn't really think about the schools giving parents a crash course, but honestly? If they're not already doing that, it'd be a really good idea. Kids benefit from their parents being involved, but if the parents don't know how to help them...well....

Also, little off topic maybe, but in the new Incredibles 2 trailer you can see Mr. Incredible freaking out over Dash's homework because he doesn't understand New Math. Loved it.

I remember my mother lamenting that she didn't know how to do the "new math" they were teaching. It was division for us. We had to draw a line along the side and put the results there instead of on top. That was the "new long division" and we weren't allowed to do it the "old way". Now, my sons only ever learned the "old way", the way my mother learned to do it. I expect to be able to help my grandkids with their math when their parents are stumped by the "new methods" of their generation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yeah -- I learned Old Math (is that what we're calling it?) but even back then you had to show your work in order to get full credit in math, and you had to show that you knew how to do it the way you were taught. You can get a right answer by accident sometimes even if you don't know what you're doing, and they want to be sure you can actually replicate it. From what I've seen of New Math...it looks initially very confusing if you're not used to doing it that way, but when I read a few explanations that started to go into why it works the way it does, it wasn't as weird as it looks from the outside.

Didn't really think about the schools giving parents a crash course, but honestly? If they're not already doing that, it'd be a really good idea. Kids benefit from their parents being involved, but if the parents don't know how to help them...well....

Also, little off topic maybe, but in the new Incredibles 2 trailer you can see Mr. Incredible freaking out over Dash's homework because he doesn't understand New Math. Loved it.

I figure by the time I get to the point where I'm needed to help on math something new will be the way to do it lol but if the newer way of doing is still around I'll at least try to understand it but I make no guarantees

I hadn't seen the trailer but oh my is that accurate portrayal of real life

 

[MerissaAndMomLoveDis]

As a side note, one year, in high school, my 21 year old daughter got mono. I think half of the high school had mono that year. Mono takes its toll on a child even after they're "recovered" from the illness. Sporradically she would miss a day of school and sleep for the entire day (this happened on weekends too). The school attendance clerk would call and threaten me telling me that the school was going to take me to court and tell me that I could be fined $500 per absence and I could even be jailed. During these calls I continued to tell the clerk that I could not possibly physically drag my sick child out of bed and send her to school. I just could not. At some point, my daughter went over her maximum allowed number of days and was sent to truancy court.

I live in Texas. I work at the juvenile justice courthouse in a large county. I hope my response helps you OP.

First, a basic simplified explanation of how Texas law regarding truancy used to work--which led to much of the horror stories about strict attendance laws in Texas--the law said that after missing 3 days or parts of days in a grading period, or 10 day or parts of days in a semester, the student and parent were referred to a criminal court for charges. (You could also possibly not get credit for completion of a grade level if your butt was not in the seat more than 90% of school days). Basically, the school was taken out of the equation and the criminal justice system took the brunt of the responsibility to "do something". The number of absences for truancy court referrals was to exclude excused absences, but all absences counted toward to 90% rule. And the districts could have some limited lee-way in determining whether some absences were counted as excused in their local policies (so I used to always encourage people to read both the Texas Education Agency's website regarding attendance laws but also the particular school's student handbook/policy manual when these questions came up), which led to some schools in Texas not being quite as super strict as others. My daughter's school attendance officer mistakenly thought that their reporting truancy to criminal court duty was triggered even when the absences were excused. Didn't matter that I showed the school the law. Pretty much exactly what MsOnceUponATime described happened to my DD and I. She got mono the first quarter of 6th grade (which was misdiagnosed for 42 days--but that's another story) AND had a broken foot from gymnastics. Somehow, she only missed two full days for the mono (with a doctor's note) and two partial days where we left with less than 30 mins left in the school day for doctor's appointment for her foot, ALL DURING THE FIRST 9 week quarter. Then threats and letters and calls ensued. I was stunned, because we had a doctor excuse for every single miss, and two were only for less than 30 minutes. But the school insisted we had broken the law and would be sent to truancy court for the criminal offenses. My poor kiddo was dragging herself to school, exhausted all of the time, struggling with crutches too, got deep dark circles under her eyes, and eventually her foot ortho doctor put her in a wheelchair for two months for her foot to heal properly. And I was having to deal with this nonsense. Once they initiated the proceedings against us, but before the charges were filed in court, I withdrew her from school and put her in a university model private school (she went to school two days a week, studied the curriculum at home three days a week), partially so she could get their strength back and recover, partly to avoid the truancy court ( even thought I knew I would get the charges thrown out). A few years ago, the Texas legislature figured out that the criminalization of all "truancy" was not working, and shifted the primary burden back to the schools to "do something". The same number of absences trigger proceedings, but now the local school has to try several different "truancy prevention measures" to resolve the student's truancy problem. If the school documents the numerous efforts with the family and has followed their districts prevention plan, then the school can still forward truancy charges to a court--but it is expected to be a last resort now instead of the first resort like it used to be. My understanding is that the courts are only seeing a small fraction of the cases now.

Edited to add: my daughter went back to public school in 8th grade, and yes, whenever she has attended public schools in Texas, we have just paid more to vacation during school breaks.

 

[cadien]

There are definitely school districts who offer Common Core Math classes for parents, and pretty user-friendly textbooks written specifically for parents for the districts that don't. My public library has some.

 

[cruiser21]

I remember my mother lamenting that she didn't know how to do the "new math" they were teaching. It was division for us. We had to draw a line along the side and put the results there instead of on top. That was the "new long division" and we weren't allowed to do it the "old way". Now, my sons only ever learned the "old way", the way my mother learned to do it. I expect to be able to help my grandkids with their math when their parents are stumped by the "new methods" of their generation.

Since the consensus has been reached that parents that pull their kids out of school are bad parents. I'm done with that topic

I'm just curious. I don't know if you're a teacher I'm just guessing you are. Does it matter how they learned they basics? Algebra, Geometry etc all seem pretty straight forward. I know some private schools do not use the common core methods. I think parents should make the effort to learn common core math if there kids are in school, but in the long run does it matter?
Don't want to start a debate on which method is better.

 

[YawningDodo]

Since the consensus has been reached that parents that pull their kids out of school are bad parents. I'm done with that topic

I'm just curious. I don't know if you're a teacher I'm just guessing you are. Does it matter how they learned they basics? Algebra, Geometry etc all seem pretty straight forward. I know some private schools do not use the common core methods. I think parents should make the effort to learn common core math if there kids are in school, but in the long run does it matter?
Don't want to start a debate on which method is better.

I don't recall anyone reaching a consensus like that at all. If you are opposed to people twisting each other's words I would suggest that you stop doing it yourself.

Math is math; there are just different ways of going about it. As long as kids know how to get the correct answer (and know how they got there), the basic long term goal is achieved: adults who aren't math-illiterate, regardless of what further education they do or don't pursue. I'm sure some argument can be made in terms of whether Common Core math builds better foundations by people in the know, but the larger issue is more about the way Common Core is supposed to set out clear goals and standards by grade level so you don't end up with lopsided standards from one school district to the next. Again, not a teacher, don't know if it is or isn't doing that effectively, but that's the idea; that's the reason it's supposed to matter.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Since the consensus has been reached that parents that pull their kids out of school are bad parents. I'm done with that topic

I'm just curious. I don't know if you're a teacher I'm just guessing you are. Does it matter how they learned they basics? Algebra, Geometry etc all seem pretty straight forward. I know some private schools do not use the common core methods. I think parents should make the effort to learn common core math if there kids are in school, but in the long run does it matter?
Don't want to start a debate on which method is better.

Oi! I'm on your side, Cruiser21. My kids will be missing school before and after spring break. It's the reality of our life and many of the other kids in their school. My older son is getting a chance to do a soccer tournament in Spain just before Easter, so in addition to our vacation, he'll come back to school for a week and be off an additional 4 days. How could I tell him that sitting in a classroom is more important than taking an opportunity that will enrich his life, his skills and give him a better world view? Is it educational? It's not part of a curriculum, but it is something he will remember all his life and he may well learn some very good skills for teamwork, too. It'll also make a resume interesting. Even though it's not work related, it's participation in extracurricular, which will make him more interesting to a prospective interviewer.

But I'm not from Texas, I'm from Canada. We don't have the same kinds of truancy laws. I don't have to justify a family vacation to the school or the board or the government.

As for my comment, we don't do "common core", but we did something like it ("Math Makes Sense"), which sucked. I was just telling an anecdote of the differences between teaching styles and it seems like every few years there are "new opinions" on how to teach the same subjects. Everything old is new again. I think the most important thing is connecting with how the child learns.

And no, I'm not a teacher, but I do sympathize with their challenges. As for homeschooling, I couldn't do it. My kids would never listen to me and they value the social aspect of school too much. But I applaud anyone that can truly make it work. It's no easy task.

 

[Pens Fan]

Since the consensus has been reached that parents that pull their kids out of school are bad parents. I'm done with that topic

Funny, I haven't seen that consensus at all. Apart from one poster who has a history of throwing out provocative phrases to get a rise out of folks (apparently it worked), I haven't gotten that impression from anyone else. For the most part what I have read is people having a rational discussion about a rather complicated topic with no clear right or wrong answer.

My older son is getting a chance to do a soccer tournament in Spain just before Easter

It's not part of a curriculum, but it is something he will remember all his life and he may well learn some very good skills for teamwork, too. It'll also make a resume interesting. Even though it's not work related, it's participation in extracurricular, which will make him more interesting to a prospective interviewer.

I actually agree with you on this. Our son missed school from time to time due to extracurricular activities. Most well rounded students do. That being said, there is a big difference between justifying those type of absences and going to see Mickey Mouse for a week because Mom and Dad want to save some money and travel in the off season. I actually don't even fault parents for doing the latter on rare occasions if that's the only way they can make it happen. What I find amusing is people trying to pass off what is really just a good, old, fun family vacation as a valuable learning experience because their kid will be counting out money and spending 10 minutes a night writing in a journal (which they could do at home ). If you want to take you child out of school, fine. I certainly don't care. I just find it funny the excuses people come up with to justify it to schools with strict attendance policies.

 

[cruiser21]

My kids learned a lot at WDW when they were young. The learned about the different countries from walking around Epcot. They learned about the different foods from each country. The learned about space, electricity and how to grow food in Epcot. They learned a lot about animals at AKL.
They learned how to wait patiently in line. They learned how to act in restaurants.. They learned about flying and how to act on a plane.
They learned how to be quite in a hotel room.

The learned the value of money and how to spend their allowances.
They learned the value of family time.

It s interesting to walk around Epcot now and say we've been to this country and that country. It's fun to talk to the college kids . They get excited when you tell them youve actually been to their homeland.
I can't really say that WDW is educational past the age or 10 or so. Although Its hard to gage the educational value of family time.

WDW isn't really cheaper in the off season. I'm not sure from a financial point pulling them out of school makes sense. As far as crowds go it might. It seems crowded all the time now
Now cruising on the other hand is a different story.
I'm very upfront with my kids about our finances and what things cost. If I told I was paying 10-20k to cruise on DCL in the Summer they would think I was a complete idiot. Based on our income level they would be right.
You may be a bad parent for pulling your kids out of school, but you're going have to more money in the bank.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Funny, I haven't seen that consensus at all. Apart from one poster who has a history of throwing out provocative phrases to get a rise out of folks (apparently it worked), I haven't gotten that impression from anyone else. For the most part what I have read is people having a rational discussion about a rather competed topic with no clear right or wrong answer.





I actually agree with you on this. Our son missed school from time to time due to extracurricular activities. Most well rounded students do. That being said, there is a big difference between justifying those type of absences and going to see Mickey Mouse for a week because Mom and Dad want to save some money and travel in the off season. I actually don't even fault parents for doing the latter on rare occasions if that's the only way they can make it happen. What I find amusing is people trying to pass off what is really just a good, old, fun family vacation as a valuable learning experience because their kid will be counting out money and spending 10 minutes a night writing in a journal (which they could do at home ). If you want to take you child out of school, fine. I certainly don't care. I just find it funny the excuses people come up with to justify it to schools with strict attendance policies.

Yeah my parents did not market the cruise I mentioned earlier on as educational.

 

[robinb]

Funny, I haven't seen that consensus at all. Apart from one poster who has a history of throwing out provocative phrases to get a rise out of folks (apparently it worked), I haven't gotten that impression from anyone else. For the most part what I have read is people having a rational discussion about a rather competed topic with no clear right or wrong answer.

I also didn't see anyone saying that parents who took kids out of school were bad parents except that one poster. So there is really no consensus as far as I know .

My daughter was a competitive swimmer and also missed school in middle school and high school for swim meets. Most meets were only over the weekend so no missed school (or maybe just an hour or two on Friday) but the championship meets were also over a couple of weekdays. She was expected to keep up with her work and would bring homework with her and it was a PITB to make her do it when all she wanted to do was to rest between prelims during the day and finals at night. But those meets were important and I'm sure that her extracurricular athletics were one of the reasons she was admitted to the University of Wisconsin - Madison. I know that she wrote at least one admissions essay based on swimming.

 

[robinb]

WDW isn't really cheaper in the off season. I'm not sure from a financial point pulling them out of school makes sense. As far as crowds go it might. It seems crowded all the time now
Now cruising on the other hand is a different story.
I'm very upfront with my kids about our finances and what things cost. If I told I was paying 10-20k to cruise on DCL in the Summer they would think I was a complete idiot. Based on our income level they would be right.
You may be a bad parent for pulling your kids out of school, but you're going have to more money in the bank.

You are lucky that, as a homeschooler, you can make that choice. A week in the middle of October (or whenever DCL is cheapest) is the same for you than a week in the middle of July.

ETA: Actually, now that I think about it, I do get your point after all. You are able to make those choices so you can sympathize with others who make the same choice even if they have kids in school. Carry on!

I had said:

I'm a little confused why you keep on comparing your unique situation of being able to pick up and vacation anytime with that of parents who send their kids to school and have limitations due to attendance rules.

 

[Pens Fan]

But those meets were important and I'm sure that her extracurricular athletics were one of the reasons she was admitted to the University of Wisconsin - Madison. I know that she wrote at least one admissions essay based on swimming.

I hear you! Our son is taking Mechanical Engineering in college. While his high school grades were always very good, for whatever reason he struggled with the math portion of the SAT's. He aced the English portion, but an Engineering worthy math score seemed to allude him. We were all kind of sweating it and were beyond thrilled when he did get accepted into the Engineering program at Penn State. I have always thought that being co-captain of his high school robotics team for two years had something to do with that. We will never know for sure, but his robotics experience (and wonderful engineering/technical program at his high school) pretty much put him on the path he is on today. He did miss a few days of high school traveling to competitions, but those are the type of absences that most parents and teachers understand can be very beneficial to a student's future. The one week we took him out to go to the beach when our school calendar was greatly extended that I mentioned in an earlier post - yeah not much educational value in that. We sure had fun though!

 

[cruiser21]

You are lucky that, as a homeschooler, you can make that choice. A week in the middle of October (or whenever DCL is cheapest) is the same for you than a week in the middle of July. I'm a little confused why you keep on comparing your unique situation of being able to pick up and vacation anytime with that of parents who send their kids to school and have limitations due to attendance rules.

I believe your kids are grown. Why are you interested? I still have two school aged kids and I'm weighing my options. I like to get perspective from people that do send their kids to school and pull them out. I don't know if I'm lucky to be a homeschooler. Working and being solely responsible for your child's education is not easy. In fact it can be very stressful. Vacations are the one positive. It would be so much easier to go the school route. I do value vacation time, and I believe life experience is an educational as sitting in a classroom. It's very expensiive to vacation in the summer. Much more so then when your kids were in school. It's easy for you guys with grown kids to be judgemental, but i financially it's more difficult now.
There been some helpful post and some not so helpful. I would love to send my kids to high school and still vacation off-season; therefore I do have an interest. I have to make a decision soon. I'm not sure the headache of dealing with the school or the judgy parents is going to be worth making my life easier.
I do appreciate the discussion. It's given me a lot to consider.

 

[YawningDodo]

Funny, I haven't seen that consensus at all. Apart from one poster who has a history of throwing out provocative phrases to get a rise out of folks (apparently it worked), I haven't gotten that impression from anyone else. For the most part what I have read is people having a rational discussion about a rather complicated topic with no clear right or wrong answer.

I actually agree with you on this. Our son missed school from time to time due to extracurricular activities. Most well rounded students do. That being said, there is a big difference between justifying those type of absences and going to see Mickey Mouse for a week because Mom and Dad want to save some money and travel in the off season. I actually don't even fault parents for doing the latter on rare occasions if that's the only way they can make it happen. What I find amusing is people trying to pass off what is really just a good, old, fun family vacation as a valuable learning experience because their kid will be counting out money and spending 10 minutes a night writing in a journal (which they could do at home ). If you want to take you child out of school, fine. I certainly don't care. I just find it funny the excuses people come up with to justify it to schools with strict attendance policies.

Well said! To clarify, in case there has been any confusion, I have never been of the opinion that occasionally taking your kid out of school (even for non-educational purposes like cruises) makes you a "bad parent." In past threads on this topic (and even earlier in this thread) I have often shared the story of how my mother, a public school teacher, made the choice to pull me out of school for a week to go to WDW when I was in the 6th grade because it was the only time we could afford to go -- and how, despite it being kind of a pain for me to make up the work and my teachers not being entirely thrilled, I think she made a perfectly sound decision. I could even point out that that family trip probably contributed to me doing the Disney College Program later on as an undergraduate, which was a very valuable life experience for me.

We just never kidded ourselves that it was an educational trip. There's a world of difference between justifying an occasional absence as life experience (which does have value) versus claiming that going to an amusement park or spending a day on the beach is equally educational to time spent in a classroom with a good teacher.

 

[robinb]

I believe your kids are grown. Why are you interested? I still have two school aged kids and I'm weighing my options. I like to get perspective from people that do send their kids to school and pull them out. I don't know if I'm lucky to be a homeschooler. Working and being solely responsible for your child's education is not easy. In fact it can be very stressful. Vacations are the one positive. It would be so much easier to go the school route. I do value vacation time, and I believe life experience is an educational as sitting in a classroom. It's very expensiive to vacation in the summer. Much more so then when your kids were in school. It's easy for you guys with grown kids to be judgemental, but i financially it's more difficult now.
There been some helpful post and some not so helpful. I would love to send my kids to high school and still vacation off-season; therefore I do have an interest in others ideas I have to make a decision soon. I'm not sure the headache of dealing with the school or the judgy parents is going to be worth making my life easier.
I do appreciate the discussion. It's given me a lot to consider.

I am commenting because I have experienced having to make the choice to take my daughter out of school for a vacation or waiting for school break. I have done both. My DD started school a week late when she was in 5th grade because our vacation to China and Japan extended into the school year. I also took her out of school for two days in 8th grade to go to Quebec for Carnival because we were flying on airline miles and Delta only had flights on specific days. I'm not against taking kids out of school for vacations and I don't think people are "bad parents" for doing it. I do think that once kids are in middle school and high school it becomes much harder for them to make up lost time even if the teachers send work with them. Because of that, I do not recommend that people take their older kids out of school for more than a day or two. In any case, I have certainly never spun a vacation as "educational" even though my DD has seen the real Eiffel Tower, real Japanese Temples, the real Chateau Laurier, real British pubs, real German towns, real Mexican marketplaces and the real Temple of Heaven. Seeing a real stave church is on my DH's "bucket list" and visiting northern Africa is on mine (although I would prefer Egypt over Morocco) .

FTR, My daughter is a freshman in college. Not only don't I consider her "grown" but I have also had to pay for summer vacations as recently as last August and winter break vacations as recently as December/January. I still have to consider her school schedule if I want to vacation with her and it's even more imperative that she not miss any school.

 

[TestingH2O]

We just never kidded ourselves that it was an educational trip. There's a world of difference between justifying an occasional absence as life experience (which does have value) versus claiming that going to an amusement park or spending a day on the beach is equally educational to time spent in a classroom with a good teacher.

Exactly my opinion and what I tried to say earlier. Vacations ARE valuable! They are not a substitute for school and, especially in the case of older kids, can be very hard on kids.