Testing is Destroying Our Schools!

[nchulka]

See and now there's a push in my area for Pre K in public schools.

I disagree with this. I think children need to be with their parents until kindy age 5/6. Mine were well prepared when they started Kindergarten. There was a lot that we easily taught them at home in those early years.

I agree with this! I also like the idea of starting kids at 7. Of course most parents would blow a gasket, they love that school is free daycare. My kids school used to have half day K. The year after DS was in K, they switched to full day, too much pressure from working parents who are looking to get out of paying for childcare I taught my kids many things during their pre-k years, they were both reading independently when they started school. I loved that K was only a half-day, 3 hours away from me a day was the perfect way to get them ready for full day school in 1st grade.

 

[Southernmiss]

Hum, nice - but people would be complaining about the Federal government telling the states what they have to do.

Common Core Curriculum is a "states" sponsored initiative. It's already being adopted in 45 states. See below from the Common Core website.

The Common Core State Standards Initiative is a state-led effort coordinated by the National Governors Association Center for Best Practices (NGA Center) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO). The standards were developed in collaboration with teachers, school administrators, and experts, to provide a clear and consistent framework to prepare our children for college and the workforce.

The NGA Center and CCSSO received initial feedback on the draft standards from national organizations representing, but not limited to, teachers, postsecondary educators (including community colleges), civil rights groups, English language learners, and students with disabilities. Following the initial round of feedback, the draft standards were opened for public comment, receiving nearly 10,000 responses.

The standards are informed by the highest, most effective models from states across the country and countries around the world, and provide teachers and parents with a common understanding of what students are expected to learn. Consistent standards will provide appropriate benchmarks for all students, regardless of where they live.

These standards define the knowledge and skills students should have within their K-12 education careers so that they will graduate high school able to succeed in entry-level, credit-bearing academic college courses and in workforce training programs. The standards:
Are aligned with college and work expectations;
Are clear, understandable and consistent;
Include rigorous content and application of knowledge through high-order skills;
Build upon strengths and lessons of current state standards;
Are informed by other top performing countries, so that all students are prepared to succeed in our global economy and society; and
Are evidence-based.

 

[Southernmiss]

I agree with this! I also like the idea of starting kids at 7. Of course most parents would blow a gasket, they love that school is free daycare. My kids school used to have half day K. The year after DS was in K, they switched to full day, too much pressure from working parents who are looking to get out of paying for childcare I taught my kids many things during their pre-k years, they were both reading independently when they started school. I loved that K was only a half-day, 3 hours away from me a day was the perfect way to get them ready for full day school in 1st grade.

We are of the same mindset. I realize parents need to work, but there are ways around institutionalizing kids at an early age.

In fact, I had a big turning point in my life to become a parttime employee and full time mom when I signed oldest DS up for PreK4 and then realized I was putting him in school only to be in school for the next 15 years at least. A lightening bolt hit me as I signed my check to enroll him and I soon found a way to be at home with him and his 3 siblings.

My kids had all day kindy. I missed them, but at least school dismisses at 2:00 in my area so they were home in the early afternoon.

 

[LA PIG]

I’ll try to articulate my frustration. I’ve been teaching for 28 years, mostly at the high school level. I have taught all levels, from the technical to the Advanced Placement. I teach at the local community college as well.

I have observed a decline or shift, if you will, from a focus on content to a focus on skills. Instead of teaching a wide variety of the great works of literature, reading them for their insights into the time and place they were written, learning about the author, looking at the meaning of life through the eyes of the artist, we now focus on finding the main idea, whatever that might be. We focus on the meaning of one word in paragraph four of some random passage reprinted from some article somewhere, and if they don’t bubble in the right answer, they aren’t intelligent? They are reading less and less. We test more and more.

I don’t think students even understand what once was, to have an intelligent conversation about a book, to connect one work with another; I think we’re depriving them of some of the great creations of mankind. I fear that student only see education as forced reading for a test, or figuring out a right answer, and that has led us to produce very shallow thinkers.

Sometimes there isn’t one right answer. What is Hamlet’s tragic flaw? What is the heroic code of honor in the Iliad? There is beauty in poetry, in art, in science, in learning, but I fear we have become so consumed with success on tests, that real learning, the love of learning, of reading a good book, of appreciating art for art’s sake is being destroyed.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[dis-happy]

Glad I homeschool.
My 6th grader is fully diagramming any sentence that comes along.
Everyone had their times tables memorized by 3rd grade thanks to Saxon Math.
We use a classical curriculum which hasn't changed much in the past 20 years since I started using it for my first child and will be using again soon for my fourth child.
Standardized testing (required by our state homeschool laws) is a low key affair done at the dining room table.
Real standardized testing (the SAT for college admissions) has resulted in great scores for my first two students.
My favorite book is "Better Late Than Early". Finland must have read it too.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

We are of the same mindset. I realize parents need to work, but there are ways around institutionalizing kids at an early age.

In fact, I had a big turning point in my life to become a parttime employee and full time mom when I signed oldest DS up for PreK4 and then realized I was putting him in school only to be in school for the next 15 years at least. A lightening bolt hit me as I signed my check to enroll him and I soon found a way to be at home with him and his 3 siblings.

My kids had all day kindy. I missed them, but at least school dismisses at 2:00 in my area so they were home in the early afternoon.

If we're talking about Finland though it's important to note that Finland offers universally available preschool starting at age 2. They don't delay the start of group care, they just delay the start of academics. I think that if we were to adopt the Finnish model -- lengthy paid maternity leave, followed by publicly funded preschool with highly educated teachers, small multiage groups, and a focus on play, oral language, and practical activities we'd see tremendous benefits.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

Indiana voters provided a major upset int he election this year by ousting the incumbent Superintendent of Schools that had millions to spend by a teacher with limited resources but grassroots support.

The ousted Superintendent's programs where totally based on testing and results, plus he stated he would eliminate music in schools since it could not be "tested". Teachers and wise parents spread the word for Glenda Ritz and she won decidedly with the platform of teaching.

Hope she can get things turned around!

I am a teacher, and I literally got tears in my eyes when Glenda gave her acceptance speech last week. Now of course, I feel disheartened to learn that our new governor elect has vowed to not turn around any of the awful changes that Tony Bennett put into place.

I teach third grade, and in Indiana and my poor kiddos not only have to take the state wide testing (given in 2 parts... March and April) but must also take the IREAD test in March It is a 40 minute test and if they do not pass, they do not go onto fourth grade...... talk about AWFUL stress for the parents, teachers, and poor students.

I can't remember who asked the question why it is bad that we are "teaching to the test." I can tell you.... how about being told to basically NOT teach science, social studies and health because it is not a "tested subject?" Also, art, music and p.e. being cut because they are not tested.

That is the reality teachers deal with everyday.

I consider myself one of the "good" teachers. I love teaching kids, and I love my students. I cannot imagine myself doing anything else, but if something doesn't give soon, I will be finding a new career.

 

[sam_gordon]

Standardized tests, however, show a lack of imagination at the state and federal level when it comes to assessing student knowledge. And it shows a lack of trust of the school or the educator. If a teacher evaluates a student and indicates that student is proficient in a subject, that should be enough for the state. The student shouldn't be required to fill in little bubbles and write essays that get reviewed by a computer or a profession test scorer hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away.

But isn't that how we had kids GRADUATING and not being able to read and write? Teachers (not all, but enough) were simply "passing the buck" on the next person. IMO, *THATS* why standardized testing became so important. Because we (general) wanted a way to make sure teachers were doing their job.

 

[sam_gordon]

I agree with this! I also like the idea of starting kids at 7. Of course most parents would blow a gasket, they love that school is free daycare. My kids school used to have half day K. The year after DS was in K, they switched to full day, too much pressure from working parents who are looking to get out of paying for childcare I taught my kids many things during their pre-k years, they were both reading independently when they started school. I loved that K was only a half-day, 3 hours away from me a day was the perfect way to get them ready for full day school in 1st grade.

But the only thing you'd change by delaying school until age 7 is what parents need to pay. Do you really think parents will, when their child hits age 5 say "oh, we won't send you to daycare anymore". Yes, I looked forward to when the kids hit all day school so we could save daycare money. My high school DD got all A's her first 9 weeks (with AP classes), my younger two "exceeded expectations" on all but one of the report card standards. On that, they "met" expectations.

 

[turkeymama]

See and now there's a push in my area for Pre K in public schools.

I disagree with this. I think children need to be with their parents until kindy age 5/6. Mine were well prepared when they started Kindergarten. There was a lot that we easily taught them at home in those early years.

Up here in rural Northern Louisiana, this is not always the case. Many students come to school woefully ill-prepared. Leaving some of them at home with parents will only worsen the problem. Parents must have the ability and drive to teach children at home. As a special education teacher at a Title 1 school, I can tell you many parents have the attitude that it is the responsibility of the school system and the school system alone to teach.

Having said that, I lost two weeks of intervention and teaching time last month due to tests. Some were regular tests and retests. Most of them were various forms of standardized tests....pretests, baseline assessments, progress monitoring assessments...you get the picture. Dear Lord, what a waste of time for my students! I can baseline assess all my students at the beginning of the year in less than one week. When done properly, progress monitoring takes minimal time and can be incorporated into daily lessons. It is absolutely absurd the amount of testing that goes on in schools.

I teach at two different schools. One of those schools does not allow the students to have recess because they "must spend time on test preparation"! These poor kids are miserable. Test preparation is actually part of the schedule! I have been told to look at the test prep booklet and focus on the items that are weighted the most heavily. I don't even teach regular education. I am supposed to teach gap skills and remediate according to IEP goals! At least, that is what a special education teacher normally does. But no, now we are in on the act.

I have to stop now, because I realize I am rambling on and probably not even stringing together coherent thoughts.

 

[MomToOne]

DD12 attended a private school for K thru 6th. For 7th grade this year, we transitioned to a public school.

I am AMAZED at the lack of teaching in the classroom. Not teaching to the test. Just not teaching.

DDs school spent the first 2 weeks in EVERY class going over the rules of the school. Over and over. Reading them. Videos about them. Homework and tests on the student handbook. I mean come on - 2 weeks of this???? Give me a break. Spend a day or two on it, make it clear that if you don't follow the rules there are consequences, then actually hold them accountable if they do break a rule. Move on and start teaching already!!

Oh yeah - and then there's the fact that my daughter didn't even HAVE a Language Arts teacher for the first 3 weeks. Different substitute every day. Random worksheets, but no teaching.

The whole first quarter wasn't much better. DD learned very little. And let me assure you it wasn't because she's super smart and knows everything already. It's because the teachers tell the kids they don't have to read the textbooks because they'll give them everything they need on worksheets, which are significantly dumbed down from the textbook. Or the math classes which move at a snails pace to "help" the students that don't know their multiplication tables yet.

My daughter has a learning disability that should cause her to have to work to keep up with even a regular class. But I'm going to have to put her into GATE classes just to get her challenged a tiny bit.

Needless to say, I'm not thrilled with public school so far. But it's not because they are teaching to the test....heck, that'd be an improvement!

 

[Claudia1]

Ill try to articulate my frustration. Ive been teaching for 28 years, mostly at the high school level. I have taught all levels, from the technical to the Advanced Placement. I teach at the local community college as well.

I have observed a decline or shift, if you will, from a focus on content to a focus on skills. Instead of teaching a wide variety of the great works of literature, reading them for their insights into the time and place they were written, learning about the author, looking at the meaning of life through the eyes of the artist, we now focus on finding the main idea, whatever that might be. We focus on the meaning of one word in paragraph four of some random passage reprinted from some article somewhere, and if they dont bubble in the right answer, they arent intelligent? They are reading less and less. We test more and more.

I dont think students even understand what once was, to have an intelligent conversation about a book, to connect one work with another; I think were depriving them of some of the great creations of mankind. I fear that students only see education as forced reading for a test, or figuring out a right answer, and that has led us to produce very shallow thinkers.

Sometimes there isnt one right answer. What is Hamlet's tragic flaw? What is the heroic code of honor in the Iliad? There is beauty in poetry, in art, in science, in learning, but I fear we have become so consumed with success on tests, that real learning, the love of learning, of reading a good book, of appreciating art for arts sake is being destroyed.

Very well said!!!!!

 

[Mkrop]

I am a teacher, and I literally got tears in my eyes when Glenda gave her acceptance speech last week. Now of course, I feel disheartened to learn that our new governor elect has vowed to not turn around any of the awful changes that Tony Bennett put into place.

I teach third grade, and in Indiana and my poor kiddos not only have to take the state wide testing (given in 2 parts... March and April) but must also take the IREAD test in March It is a 40 minute test and if they do not pass, they do not go onto fourth grade...... talk about AWFUL stress for the parents, teachers, and poor students.

I can't remember who asked the question why it is bad that we are "teaching to the test." I can tell you.... how about being told to basically NOT teach science, social studies and health because it is not a "tested subject?" Also, art, music and p.e. being cut because they are not tested.

That is the reality teachers deal with everyday.

I consider myself one of the "good" teachers. I love teaching kids, and I love my students. I cannot imagine myself doing anything else, but if something doesn't give soon, I will be finding a new career.

That was me. I guess this is the part I didnt know was happening. We are tested in SS and Science so they are taught. We also have all our specials intact. Our parochial school is able to teach all these subjects and still have standardized testing. I didnt realize that many schools were sacrificing other subjects for this. But I would still think if they are teaching the skills on the test, than that is still teaching the subject matter, correct?

 

[PollyannaMom]

Is it valid to compare Finland (whose ENTIRE population is ~5.4 Million) school systems with the US (where 49.8 Million students will attend school in 2012) systems?

it's definitely different... here's more from the google article I came across...


"Its school system has roughly the same number of teachers as New York City’s but far fewer students, 600,000 compared with New York’s 1.1 million. Finnish students speak Finnish and Swedish and usually English," the New York Times said.

There are obvious challenges to adapting what works in a racially-homogenous, prosperous little country to the United States, but the New York Times story suggests that Finland could be an excellent model for individual states.

“The fact that we have more race, ethnicity and economic heterogeneity, and we have this huge problem of poverty, should not mean we don’t want qualified teachers — the strategies become even more important,” said Stanford professor Linda Darling-Hammond in the story. “Thirty years ago, Finland’s education system was a mess. It was quite mediocre, very inequitable. It had a lot of features our system has: very top-down testing, extensive tracking, highly variable teachers, and they managed to reboot the whole system.”

It's different here, but does that mean it HAS to be harder to do what Finland does? I don't see why it would.

I especially like the 'no formal instruction until 7yo' (NYS starts K at 4yo and 5yo), and K means instruction and homework... and many pre-K's are like K in that regard.

I think we try to teach too much, too soon. I liken it to trying to teach a 6 month old baby to walk. No matter how much you try to 'teach' the baby to walk, some will walk at 9 months, some at 1 year, some at 15 months, etc. You could have sat there and picked your nose all day instead of trying to teach the baby to walk, and you'd have the exact same outcome. BUT, if we did that, you'd have parents of the 9 month old walkers saying how "their" method is the best, because their child walked early, knim??

I recall a friend telling me about a study she read, where if you waited to teach 'higher' math until the kid was about 14 or 15yo, it would take 1.5 years to teach them what takes us from 4th grade until 12th grade to teach them, because the kids will be completely ready at 14yo and not bogged down w/ hating math, feeling bad about math, etc.

Finland obviously does just fine in math (better than the US), and they don't start formal studies until 7yo, and I didn't look up when they start "math" on paper (but 7yo would be the earliest I assume). Our kids are doing math on paper in pre-K, so 3yo's and 4yo's. Just like trying to teach a 6 month old to walk. It's not working!

I think you are absolutely right! If we wait until a child is ready to learn something, he or she will learn it quickly and confidently. If we push before that same child is ready, learning becomes slow and painful.

 

[lovesmurfs]

Saw this comic this morning and thought of this thread....

 

[sam_gordon]

I think you are absolutely right! If we wait until a child is ready to learn something, he or she will learn it quickly and confidently. If we push before that same child is ready, learning becomes slow and painful.

I agree with you. The problem is all kids progress at different rates. Should someone that's ready to start school at 5 have to wait two years to do so? Should someone who's NOT ready to start school at 7 be allowed to wait?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Ill try to articulate my frustration. Ive been teaching for 28 years, mostly at the high school level. I have taught all levels, from the technical to the Advanced Placement. I teach at the local community college as well.

I have observed a decline or shift, if you will, from a focus on content to a focus on skills. Instead of teaching a wide variety of the great works of literature, reading them for their insights into the time and place they were written, learning about the author, looking at the meaning of life through the eyes of the artist, we now focus on finding the main idea, whatever that might be. We focus on the meaning of one word in paragraph four of some random passage reprinted from some article somewhere, and if they dont bubble in the right answer, they arent intelligent? They are reading less and less. We test more and more.

I dont think students even understand what once was, to have an intelligent conversation about a book, to connect one work with another; I think were depriving them of some of the great creations of mankind. I fear that students only see education as forced reading for a test, or figuring out a right answer, and that has led us to produce very shallow thinkers.

Sometimes there isnt one right answer. What is Hamlet's tragic flaw? What is the heroic code of honor in the Iliad? There is beauty in poetry, in art, in science, in learning, but I fear we have become so consumed with success on tests, that real learning, the love of learning, of reading a good book, of appreciating art for arts sake is being destroyed.

To be fair, it depends on the student and your school offerings.

My youngest is in a district that has advanced classes for language arts. Now we choose this district specifically for the curriculum when we moved back to MO.

They had "challenge classes" in middle school and then when she went to HS she competed for a spot in ALARP, which is their research and presentation language arts class, above the honors language arts.

She is doing college level work in HS with language arts. So all hope is not lost.

I don't know what the "right" answer is to everything wrong with schools & testing, but I do know that each district and state for that matter is not the same or fair with what is available, which is not good in the long run imo.

 

[Bilberry]

A loss in confidence in public schools has been occurring for decades at this point. Since the 1970s Americans have been looking for answers on how the improve our public education system. One of the first ideas tried was increasing teachers pay. That idea unfortunately has not been the answer many hoped it would be.

Then teaching to tests has been tried. This sadly has led to many school districts to simply make tests easier in order to show a higher number of well performing students. Easier tests also closes the racial gap, which is something some find important to stress. Recall this article about that.

"The NYT finally reveals a big truth about school testing"

http://isteve.blogspot.com/search?q=tests+easier

From Steve Sailor's article:

...The corrupt hole at the heart of the No Child Left Behind law is that states get to make up and manipulate the tests by which the federal government evaluates their progress toward meeting NCLB goals. That should have been obvious all along that NCLB was utterly undermined by this built-in conflict of interest, but the truth was that NCLB is just a feel-good fantasy law. Mandating that all students score as "proficient" on achievement tests by 2013 is simply a demand for the states to corrupt the test.
By the way, one of the more subtle purposes of making the tests easier it to make it look like the racial gaps are narrowing. That's because journalists always measure the racial gap by the simple minded use of percentage point differences rather than by standard deviations. For example, if in Year 1, 84% of the whites 50% of the blacks pass, then the racial gap will be reported in the newspapers as 34 percentage points. Then say the test is made much easier so that 98% of the whites and 84% of the blacks pass. Well, then the racial gap has "narrowed" from 34 to 14 percentage points, so, whoopee, cash bonuses for everybody! But, of course, the racial gap is still about one standard deviation....

I think going forward, due to the internet and our changing work environment, we are likely to see many look to move beyond our big box schools. Our current school system was built upon the idea that students would graduate, and move onto factory or office repetitive work. Many of those old jobs are no longer with us. As a result we need different, more creative schools I believe.

Recall this article in the Wall Street Journal on what we might be seeing ~

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/01/28/does-school-stunt-the-teenage-brain/

From the article:

...Nevertheless, the piece points to something important: the modern situation in which kids reach puberty early and economic and emotional adulthood relatively late is not necessarily ideal. Ideally, kids lives should integrate both work and study through life  not as nine year old factory slaves, but more like the way kids on American family farms acquired more and more responsible roles as they grew up.
Apprenticeships and other forms of education could well be healthier and more effective than our present over-emphasis on the classroom.
School reform in America needs to involve much more than objective test scores. The 20th century universal school system of rigid grades and the growing separation of learning and work may have made sense 100 years ago. To sit still, follow directions, move with the herd and live by the clock were important skills in the days when repetitive jobs in factories and offices were how most adults lived. But civilization is at a higher level now, and we need to prepare kids for more fluid and dynamic lives.
You dont need to be a neurologist to see that modern schools stunt brains.

 

[Jedana]

I'm sure I posted this before. My DD2--in middle school in Vegas--spent 6 weeks learning how to take the scan-tron tests.

Not learning the content of the tests.

Not learning how to read the tests.

The practice tests were NOT for her grade level, but for a lower grade, so they weren't learning what was on the tests.

How to take them. How to fill in the circles correctly. Half the day. every day. for 6 weeks.


It's no wonder she learned nothing that year. We switched schools after that year and the next school was only marginally better. At least there, they tried to teach them how to read the tests, while learning how to fill in circles.


Here, DS takes the FCAT practice test every week. At least the content changes as they go on.

 

[Jedana]

I agree with this! I also like the idea of starting kids at 7. Of course most parents would blow a gasket, they love that school is free daycare. My kids school used to have half day K. The year after DS was in K, they switched to full day, too much pressure from working parents who are looking to get out of paying for childcare I taught my kids many things during their pre-k years, they were both reading independently when they started school. I loved that K was only a half-day, 3 hours away from me a day was the perfect way to get them ready for full day school in 1st grade.

DD1 and DS were both reading before Pre-K. Pre-K was mostly for socialization with these two. DD1 had half day K; DS had full day K.

DD2 needed Pre-K to help with learning her alphabet. What I did with DD1 wasn't working with her. She has a learning disability and didn't learn to really read until first grade. Once it finally clicked, she was good to go. She had half day K as well.