Temember the thread about passengers "of size" ?

[seashoreCM]

Moving the guy in the middle seat to another flight (I'm assuming that the original flight ended up being full, so he couldn't be moved to another seat on that flight), allowed the passenger in the aisle seat to use the space of both seats (though where his knees were supposed to go, I have no idea - he looks very tall).

That would require followint the bump volunteer rules and doling out compensation.

That just wasn't fair and it was a miserable 2 and a half hours.

It should have been brought up with the flight crew prior to departure. The advantage of having the complaint resolution officer summoned if needed is that it takes the flight crew off the hook as far as who gets charged with a late departure (someone is always the scapegoat when this happens).

Imagine (only) this scenario. Suppose you the aggrieved passenger say you will take the FA's jump seat and the FA can sit next to the larger passenger. Now there is at least one recorded instance of this (several years ago) and the result was that the FA asked for volunteers and got one.

I suppose the FA or anyone else could freely publish a scene with the front view of the passenger in question together with other people where the eyes and part of the faces of all people were covered with black rectangles. (from the devil's advocate) If I was one of the other pssengers in the picture were my privacy rights equally invaded?

Not sure if this is the same incident I read about a week or two ago but then it was said that the ground crew (gate agents, etc.) was not being cooperative with the flight crew.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Based on some earlier comments, my understanding is that her supervises won't see a passenger as they are supervising at a location nowhere near the airport. But I could be mistaken.

Even if that FA's supervisors were not at that airport, the CRO was, the Gate Agents were, and the pilot most assuredly was. The plane could not leave the gate until/unless all passengers were seated and buckled in - an impossibility when a passenger is seated ON the arm of the seat as this passenger was.

ANY of these people - the FA included - could have easily and physically VIEWED the passenger and resolved the situation. It was entirely unnecessary to post that photograph anywhere online. It wasn't even necessary to take the picture.

 

[Stitchfans]

I don't see why this pic was released to the whole world. I guess just to embrass the guy in the pic

Didn't read on. I agree with this post.

 

[maxiesmom]

How can it be embarassing if no one can tell who the person in the picture is? If the picture showed the person's face, I would find it out of line. But as you cannot identify the man, how can he honestly be embarassed?

I always thought that part of being embarassed was the shame of others knowing something about YOU. There is no telling who this man is by the photo.

 

[MiniGirl]

Even if that FA's supervisors were not at that airport, the CRO was, the Gate Agents were, and the pilot most assuredly was. The plane could not leave the gate until/unless all passengers were seated and buckled in - an impossibility when a passenger is seated ON the arm of the seat as this passenger was.

ANY of these people - the FA included - could have easily and physically VIEWED the passenger and resolved the situation. It was entirely unnecessary to post that photograph anywhere online. It wasn't even necessary to take the picture.

This pic was taken at the gate. It was posted that the man in the middle seat was removed and upgraded on a later flight, so the larger gentleman could have both seats. Obviously, this was resolved before the flight left.

I know I won't change you mind, and that is fine. Let me just say though that I used to work as a f/a for this particular airline, and believe me when I tell you those f/as are on their own out there. The gate agents and the station managers #1 priority is to get the plane out on time, so their solution is to throw everyone on the plane and close the door. If they are unable to close the door once everyone is on the plane, the delay then belongs to the flight crew and they (the agents) are blameless -- on paper. It can be beyong frustrating. Hopefully, you have a good cockpit crew that doesn't mind having to answer for a delay and will refuse to leave until a problem in resolved. If not, then you have to raise a stink and say that if this problem isn't resolved, you are getting off the plane. With so many airlines manning the planes now at the FAA minimums, this means the plane cannot leave, and you can bet there will be youknowwhattopay when you get back to base. I do not blame the f/a one bit for taking that picture. If s/he caused a flight to be delayed w/o cause (and believe me w/o proof it would be determined that s/he was just over reacting), s/he could lose his/her job. If the problem was ignored and a FAA inspector happened to be on board, s/he would be fined for allowing this obvious safety violation to occur.

I'm not sure how I feel about it being released to the public, but I do not blame the f/a for taking the pic and protecting his/her job. I don't know if you have ever worked as a crew memeber or know anyone who has. Even the ground personnel that work for airlines, don't fully understand the job, but it is not like other jobs. Many times you do not know or ever even see your immediate supervisor. Many times your supervisor has never even done your job, so even they are clueless about what is involved. While I generally enjoyed not having to deal with my supervisor, it did have its drawbacks, too.

 

[wvjules]

Apparently there have been several discrimination lawsuits recently brought by obese passengers against airlines for trying to make them buy extra seats, and at least one airline has lost the suit. I think airlines are either going to have to start adding larger seats or providing the 2nd seat free. It seems as though they're too busy CYA'ing to do much else.

Just how big are they supposed to make the seats?

If you take up the space of 2 seats, you buy 2 seats. Simple as that!

Oh, and they do make larger seats...they are in First Class.

 

[pigletgirl]

Just how big are they supposed to make the seats?

If you take up the space of 2 seats, you buy 2 seats. Simple as that!

Oh, and they do make larger seats...they are in First Class.

Not everyone can afford first class seats and/or make that upgrade.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

MiniGirl, everything you posted only reenforces my beliefs. So this is definitely a problem with the airlines and they way they are run, but it's okay to throw a passenger under the bus to CYA? This is a problem of the airlines. They need to deal with it. Someone said earlier they need to enforce their rules and they do. But those should also be rules about the size of carryons, the number of personal belongings, etc. The airlines need to step up and do their jobs, not blame everyone else for it. Just like this man should have taken personal responsibility, so should the airlines. Their rules, their plane, their responsibility.

 

[disykat]

Not everyone can afford first class seats and/or make that upgrade.

Air travel is not a "right." Many people can not afford to fly at all. While buying two seats because you don't fit in one isn't something anyone WANTS to do, it's just simply a necessity for some. Same for the extra tall people.

When you are larger, clothes cost more too. Not to punish people, but because it takes more fabric etc. to make the clothes. I don't see this as any different. They are not punishing people, they are charging for the space taken.

 

[FireDancer]

Not everyone can afford first class seats and/or make that upgrade.

That is true, but the passenger has to take responsibility to accommodate their size. They can do this by purchasing a first class ticket (provided the seat is wide enough for them) or 2 coach tickets. They will not be able to fly for the price of a single coach seat. If this is a substantial enough problem long term the passenger can lose some weight and fit into a seat. If they cannot for whatever reason they will have to eat the expense.

It is not the airline's responsibility to make wider coach seats. From a business standpoint this makes not sense. They would then have to fly each plane with less passengers and everyone would have to pay extra.

 

[MiniGirl]

MiniGirl, everything you posted only reenforces my beliefs. So this is definitely a problem with the airlines and they way they are run, but it's okay to throw a passenger under the bus to CYA? This is a problem of the airlines. They need to deal with it. Someone said earlier they need to enforce their rules and they do. But those should also be rules about the size of carryons, the number of personal belongings, etc. The airlines need to step up and do their jobs, not blame everyone else for it. Just like this man should have taken personal responsibility, so should the airlines. Their rules, their plane, their responsibility.

I don't disagree with you. I also think they need to address problems as they appear instead of just passing it down the line. The line f/a is the end of the line though, and as a result, ends up having to deal with ALL of it. By that time, the passenger thinks s/he is just being rude because nobody else said anything about it. The line f/a, then, also becomes the one the passenger takes it all out on. Just how much should a f/a take before they result to drastic measure. I cannot tell how many things I have been yelled at about that I had no control over. Things like the weather, a mechanical delay, or medical delay aren't really anyone's fault. However, things like the number and size of carry ons, specific seat assignments, and yes, a passenger that is so large as to encroach on another's seat are things that should never make it to the plane.

I bet the f/a that took the photo agrees with you as well, and took the photo to prove a point. I don't see it as throwing a passenger under the bus since nobody can tell who it is. (Shoot it looks a lot like my FIL actually, but I know it isn't because he does buy 2 seats when he flies.) Just complaining about it to a supervisor would do no good though because the f/a would be seen as just, well...., complaining and not taken seriously. Again though, I readily admit that I do not understand the reason for sending it on to the blogger who eventually posted it.

 

[wvjules]

That is true, but the passenger has to take responsibility to accommodate their size. They can do this by purchasing a first class ticket (provided the seat is wide enough for them) or 2 coach tickets. They will not be able to fly for the price of a single coach seat. If this is a substantial enough problem long term the passenger can lose some weight and fit into a seat. If they cannot for whatever reason they will have to eat the expense.
It is not the airline's responsibility to make wider coach seats. From a business standpoint this makes not sense. They would then have to fly each plane with less passengers and everyone would have to pay extra.

Did you do that on purpose?

 

[ogreenlee]

I wish sometimes people would just thing for a second, what if that man was my father, my brother, my husband. I cant even imagine how hard it must be to be him with so many mean and nasty people in this world. Maybe he doesnt get out much, maybe he is on the way to a funeral and just doesnt have the money for a 2nd seat, who knows what the circumstances are. I understand its tough to be the passenger getting squished by the larger passenger. But i guarantee you its much tougher being that big guy, that must be so tough to KNOW that you are going to get laughed and and judged everywhere you go. Im not saying the other people dont have a right to be upset, but please people try and think how hard this guys life must be on a day to day basis as is, let alone without an airplane full of people judging and snickering and laughing.

If this man showed up on my plane, or anyone else of his size (or even close)... I wouldn't be laughing or snickering, I'd be hoping that he doesn't have the seat next to me, and I'd be feeling bad for the person sitting next to him unless he had two seats.


And if there is space to be made on a plane, I'd rather it go in front of my knees than in width. I am not against having one row on a plane to accommodate a person who has a doctor's excuse to sit there... like a handicap parking spot. I do not think they should have to make the seats wider in every row to accommodate Americans who are in the midst of an obesity pandemic. It's not the airlines' fault that people are heavy. Granted... there are those FEW who are heavy b/c of circumstances beyond their control. That's why I would agree to having one row dedicated to these people.

 

[sbell111]

That is true, but the passenger has to take responsibility to accommodate their size. They can do this by purchasing a first class ticket (provided the seat is wide enough for them) or 2 coach tickets. They will not be able to fly for the price of a single coach seat. If this is a substantial enough problem long term the passenger can lose some weight and fit into a seat. If they cannot for whatever reason they will have to eat the expense.

It is not the airline's responsibility to make wider coach seats. From a business standpoint this makes not sense. They would then have to fly each plane with less passengers and everyone would have to pay extra.

I agree with your post. However, until AA has such a policy in place, the responsibility to make sure that these issues are handled properly is theirs.

AA (and other airlines) allows people of size to only buy a single seat is the flight is not full. Since this is their policy, people have little incentive to buy two seats from the start. The airline needs to be proactive to identify those full flights and target those passengers who need to buy an additional seat prior to the aircraft being loaded.

Of course, even this becomes a problem. Since airlines (especially AA) routinely oversell their flights, many of these flights will be sold so heavily that the station agents are unable to sell the individual the second seat. I suspect that this inability along with the gate agents not wanting the hassle of working an oversale situation that results in these passengers being dumped on the aircraft in the hopes that the FAs will somehow get them buckled into individual seats.

 

[FireDancer]

Did you do that on purpose?

Of course, who doesn't love a good pun?

AA (and other airlines) allows people of size to only buy a single seat is the flight is not full. Since this is their policy, people have little incentive to buy two seats from the start. The airline needs to be proactive to identify those full flights and target those passengers who need to buy an additional seat prior to teh aircraft being loaded.

Southwest has the best policy. It is fully disclosed and enforced so no one can claim ignorance. If the flight isn't full they refund the ticket and those who do purchase two get to board early to make sure the do indeed get two seats.

 

[sbell111]

Southwest has the best policy. It is fully disclosed and enforced so no one can claim ignorance. If the flight isn't full they refund the ticket and those who do purchase two get to board early to make sure the do indeed get two seats.

That is a good policy. I wonder how difficult it is to actually get the refund.