Temember the thread about passengers "of size" ?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This was not an invasion of his privacy.

I do think if the F/A had an issue and his/her superiors weren't listing, then the F/A had every right to document the problem and elevate the issue. You know what they say? A picture is worth 1000 words.

And sometimes, when the superiors ignore it and you can't get the problem elevated any further up the chain of command, it then is time to blow the whistle.

While it is unfortunate that the photo was posted on a blog and then subsequently perceived as an embarrassment to the passenger, I do not have an issue with it.

The F/A is simply blowing the whistle on a growing problem and if airlines choose to ignore the problem at the expense of safety and comfort of its passengers, then the airline deserves to have its issues exposed to perhaps force them to change their practices for the comfort of all.

A passenger of size (girth or height) should not get additional room gratis. If they need it (two seats or extra legroom) then they should pay for it.

And an airline has every right to modify seat assignments in the event a last minute seat purchase is necessary for a passenger needing two seats. So the seats not being together b/c of last minute booking is irrelevant as the airline could adjust that. This did not seem to be an issue for this man on this flight.


I don't know what the solution is--I just know that the airlines cannot ignore this any longer.

IMHO, whistleblowers should not be fired and that is my opinon of the intent of the photo.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Every airline has - or should - a Complaint Resolution Officer at every airport. If not a person with that title, then most assuredly a supervisor.

The plane was still being boarded when that picture was taken. There is no way in the world any responsible/reasonable/sensible pilot would take off - or even leave the gate - unless all passengers were in their seats with seat belts fastened. Period.

There was NO need to take the picture. A Gate Agent, Supervisor, Manager, CRO, or even the pilot, could have easily viewed the passenger for themselves while the plane was still at the gate with the door open (which it was, given that the passenger in the adjacent seat was given the opportunity to disembark and fly first class on a later flight).

Are Customers of Size a problem? Sure. If you don't fit in one and only one seat, you should purchase a second seat. Period. But the picture was NOT necessary.

 

[TheZue]

Wow, If they let him on the plane and they saw how big he was where is the airline responsbility? How in the world would you know that you need two seats If you had never flew before? On the other hand the airline should have know he was two big for one seat

The airlines do say how big their seats are. I was paranoid last time I flew and I ended up being an inch under. There is no way a person that size wouldn't know and be sensitive about it...they would never fit in a seat at a restaurant that was attached to the floor, they would never fit in a movie theatre seat, he would need a seatbelt extender in his car, even a computer chair or a bathtub would be a stretch. He'd know he's too big for standard chairs.

So let's shame everyone into being thin? What purpose does this serve the general public? Is this like a Wanted poster in the post office? That the general public should be on the looked for this particular person? Why did it need to be disseminated to the general public? For what purpose?

I think there is some point in posting it. I am generally very defensive over this because I can see it being abused...but this is just absurd. It puts a whole new spin on the argument of whether large people should be buying a second seat. I think when this comes up with think of people who are stuffed in their seat but still fit, it probably isn't the best experience being next to them but they can fit with their arm rest down. There is no way this guy would ever fit. I can't see any reason why somebody this large wouldn't be paying for a second seat, but honestly it's not what comes to mind when people talk about this issue.

It was on the news this evening. They talked to the man who doesn't think that he needs to have more than one seat.

This guy is seriously deluded about his size then, or he's arguing on a rights issue I'm not sure should apply. The airlines always charge the same prices for seats, kids...seniors...adults all pay the same price. I can't see under the current pricing structure how needing two seats shouldn't be charged for

For larger people who do require two seats, for everyone's safety they should be place in the middle and window seats. Think about those two people sitting next to this man on the plane, how are they suppose to get up to go to the restroom?

That's going to be no win either way, either he's going to have to go over you to get out, or you will have to get past him.

The overweight person, on the other hand, might not mind being squeezed uncomfortably into a too-small seat, but he almost certainly is adversely affecting those around him. In that case he should be required to pay for an additional seat whether or not he is willing to tolerate being uncomfortable. He doesn't have the right to decide that those next to him should have to be uncomfortable.

If they can get into their seat with the arm rests down I am fine with them being charged for one seat...this guy wasn't even IN his seat though. Flying sucks, generally if you are beside somebody you don't know they are annoying. If they aren't fat they smell, if they don't smell they are too chatty, if they aren't too chatty it'll having a stupid amount of stuff, if it isn't any of that it'll be something else.

 

[Scurvy]

If they can get into their seat with the arm rests down I am fine with them being charged for one seat...this guy wasn't even IN his seat though. Flying sucks, generally if you are beside somebody you don't know they are annoying. If they aren't fat they smell, if they don't smell they are too chatty, if they aren't too chatty it'll having a stupid amount of stuff, if it isn't any of that it'll be something else.

For the most part I agree with you, however. . . after one miserable flight when the man next to me was taking up half my seat, I think there's a difference between annoying/uncomforable and intolerable. This was years ago, and the guy somehow got the armrest down but his arm and hip were literally taking up half of my seat. I couldn't move one side of my body at all. The flight was full, and I was traveling alone with my toddler so waiting for another flight was not an option for me. I ended up taking half of my son's seat and we made it work. If I had been sitting next to an adult there's no way I could have flown next to that guy. (Besides the obvious discomfort, it wouldn't have been particularly safe because I had previously had a blood clot, and being high risk for those I needed to be able to move around at least a little bit.) He needed two seats of his own, not one of his own and half of mine. I can handle being uncomfortable - it's just an expected part of flying. I can't handle having to share half of my seat with someone else.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

For the most part I agree with you, however. . . after one miserable flight when the man next to me was taking up half my seat, I think there's a difference between annoying/uncomforable and intolerable. This was years ago, and the guy somehow got the armrest down but his arm and hip were literally taking up half of my seat. I couldn't move one side of my body at all. The flight was full, and I was traveling alone with my toddler so waiting for another flight was not an option for me. I ended up taking half of my son's seat and we made it work. If I had been sitting next to an adult there's no way I could have flown next to that guy. (Besides the obvious discomfort, it wouldn't have been particularly safe because I had previously had a blood clot, and being high risk for those I needed to be able to move around at least a little bit.) He needed two seats of his own, not one of his own and half of mine. I can handle being uncomfortable - it's just an expected part of flying. I can't handle having to share half of my seat with someone else.

Here's another way to look at it. What if I buy my seat and you're sitting there with your toddler on your lap? (I know you had a seat for your son, but I'm just playing devil's advocate.) When have you ever seen a toddler sit still and not occasionally bump it, hit or kick the passenger next to mom or dad? Why isn't every passenger made to buy their own seat? Again, I'm all for this man having to buy an extra seat, but I think everyone should have their own seat. I don't see how the airlines justify babies and toddlers sharing a seat. It's just not safe.

 

[Cinderella94]

Here's another way to look at it. What if I buy my seat and you're sitting there with your toddler on your lap? (I know you had a seat for your son, but I'm just playing devil's advocate.) When have you ever seen a toddler sit still and not occasionally bump it, hit or kick the passenger next to mom or dad? Why isn't every passenger made to buy their own seat? Again, I'm all for this man having to buy an extra seat, but I think everyone should have their own seat. I don't see how the airlines justify babies and toddlers sharing a seat. It's just not safe.

I think an occasional bump from a 2 year old wouldn't cause a great deal of discomfort. Annoyance, maybe, but everyone on the plane would probably be annoyed anyway because of the noise that 2 year olds tend to make. Anyway--an occasional bump is different than someone elses whole person spilling into your seat.

 

[sandramaac]

I think the photo by the f/a would have been fine, had it only been sent internally to the airline. How else is the f/a to show the true problem this passenger was causing. However whoever and however it was released to the media is another matter. I imagine the perhaps the f/a did take the photo, and thena passenger also took the photo and released it under the guise of a f/a.

 

[Uuaww]

What about people like myself? I am 6'6" with long legs and get horrible cramps in my legs on any flight longer than an hour. I can't control my height so shouldn't I get a free upgrade to Economy Plus?

Personally, I can't fly American or United without and upgrade, it gets unbearable.

 

[pigletgirl]

I'm surprised its getting so much uproar in this day and age! Isn't it like 1 in 3 americans overweight?

This is something that the airlines will have to start to get used to, because people are getting larger.

But I don't think its right that the flight attendant took that photo. The poor guy.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Seven years ago virgin had to pay a passenger who was injured by such a large person crushing her. The gentleman in question could not possibly have thought he could fit into one seat and so should have brought two, mind you if you do buy 2 seats do you get double the baggage allowance?

Virgin Atlantic has paid £13,000 to a passenger who was permanently injured when she was squashed by an obese woman sitting next to her on a long haul flight.

Barbara Hewson, from Swansea, south Wales, suffered a blood clot in her chest, torn leg muscles and acute sciatica and remains in pain two years on.

As the number of overweight people continues to grow, it has re-opened the debate on how airlines treat their passengers.

Some charge oversized flyers for two seats while there are mounting complaints that planes simply do not allow enough room.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think the photo by the f/a would have been fine, had it only been sent internally to the airline. How else is the f/a to show the true problem this passenger was causing.

By bringing the Complaint Resolution Officer, or an on-site Supervisor, or a Gate Agent, onto the plane - because it was still at the gate, still being boarded, and unable to move from the gate (even if the door had been closed) because there was a passenger not seated and without a fastened seat belt. There was NO need to take that picture, much less disseminate it.

 

[pipersmom]

Apparently there have been several discrimination lawsuits recently brought by obese passengers against airlines for trying to make them buy extra seats, and at least one airline has lost the suit. I think airlines are either going to have to start adding larger seats or providing the 2nd seat free. It seems as though they're too busy CYA'ing to do much else.

 

[FireDancer]

Apparently there have been several discrimination lawsuits recently brought by obese passengers against airlines for trying to make them buy extra seats, and at least one airline has lost the suit. I think airlines are either going to have to start adding larger seats or providing the 2nd seat free. It seems as though they're too busy CYA'ing to do much else.

Sounds like the public needs to made aware of the problem, I imagine many don't know that passengers needing multiple seats is a problem for the airlines. I wonder if anyone will take some photographic evidence of the issues these passengers can cause and release it to the the public. Maybe when that happens the airlines will start to plead their case in the press a little bit.

I'm all for the freedom to distribute information, even if it hurts someone's feelings. It is the information age and too much information is usually better then not enough. I am of the opinion that the distribution of a legally obtained photo is not the worst violation that probably took place on the Internet this week.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have never been required, or even asked, to purchase a second seat - but if I were too large to fit fully in one seat with the armrests down and not infringe on my neighbor's seat, I would expect to purchase two seats. And yes, I am overweight.

 

[ratherbeatdisney]

I wish sometimes people would just thing for a second, what if that man was my father, my brother, my husband. I cant even imagine how hard it must be to be him with so many mean and nasty people in this world. Maybe he doesnt get out much, maybe he is on the way to a funeral and just doesnt have the money for a 2nd seat, who knows what the circumstances are. I understand its tough to be the passenger getting squished by the larger passenger. But i guarantee you its much tougher being that big guy, that must be so tough to KNOW that you are going to get laughed and and judged everywhere you go. Im not saying the other people dont have a right to be upset, but please people try and think how hard this guys life must be on a day to day basis as is, let alone without an airplane full of people judging and snickering and laughing.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I wish sometimes people would just thing for a second, what if that man was my father, my brother, my husband. I cant even imagine how hard it must be to be him with so many mean and nasty people in this world. Maybe he doesnt get out much, maybe he is on the way to a funeral and just doesnt have the money for a 2nd seat, who knows what the circumstances are. I understand its tough to be the passenger getting squished by the larger passenger. But i guarantee you its much tougher being that big guy, that must be so tough to KNOW that you are going to get laughed and and judged everywhere you go. Im not saying the other people dont have a right to be upset, but please people try and think how hard this guys life must be on a day to day basis as is, let alone without an airplane full of people judging and snickering and laughing.

And in the case of the virgin atlantic passenger being squashed by an obese passenger health problems 2 years after the squashing.

Barbara Hewson, from Swansea, south Wales, suffered a blood clot in her chest, torn leg muscles and acute sciatica and remains in pain two years on

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

By bringing the Complaint Resolution Officer, or an on-site Supervisor, or a Gate Agent, onto the plane - because it was still at the gate, still being boarded, and unable to move from the gate (even if the door had been closed) because there was a passenger not seated and without a fastened seat belt. There was NO need to take that picture, much less disseminate it.

The fact that it is a problem that has to be continually elevated on the ground--when it should be resolved at the ticket counter shows that the problem isn't being handled at all.

It's only being fixed day in and day out rather than prevented.

As long as airlines are blind to create and enforce policies on dealing with passengers of size who simply cannot fit into one seat, then the f/a is justified in blowing the whistle on the issue.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I wish sometimes people would just thing for a second, what if that man was my father, my brother, my husband. I cant even imagine how hard it must be to be him with so many mean and nasty people in this world. Maybe he doesnt get out much, maybe he is on the way to a funeral and just doesnt have the money for a 2nd seat, who knows what the circumstances are. I understand its tough to be the passenger getting squished by the larger passenger. But i guarantee you its much tougher being that big guy, that must be so tough to KNOW that you are going to get laughed and and judged everywhere you go. Im not saying the other people dont have a right to be upset, but please people try and think how hard this guys life must be on a day to day basis as is, let alone without an airplane full of people judging and snickering and laughing.

His day to day life is of noones concern but his own. On a plane, his burden is shared with those around him and it is unreasonable to expect folks to deal with his situation b/c he opted to fly discount and put half his body in a seat.

I assure you, I am not laughing at him. There is nothing to laugh at. For whatever reason, he is who he is. The why is irrelevant.

All that is important is that he greatly exceeds the constraints of that seat and should have otherwise accounted for that by buying a second ticket.

 

[kaytieeldr]

As long as airlines are blind to create and enforce policies on dealing with passengers of size who simply cannot fit into one seat, then the f/a is justified in blowing the whistle on the issue.

I don't disagree. But all she had to do was have somebody with more authority view the passenger. There was no need for a picture, and absolutely zero need to post the picture online.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't disagree. But all she had to do was have somebody with more authority view the passenger. There was no need for a picture, and absolutely zero need to post the picture online.

Based on some earlier comments, my understanding is that her supervises won't see a passenger as they are supervising at a location nowhere near the airport. But I could be mistaken.

It doesn't matter if the people on the ground see anything and fix it after the fact. Airlines need a policy and they need it to be enforced (Whatever teh solution is).

It's kind of like--do we want to prevent a fire from occurring, or just put them out when they come up? Eventually, the problem becomes too great that preventing the problem is more important than just fixing it on the fly on a daily basis.