Tell it like it used to be...

[BeerMe]

I went in the 70s and 80s but only a few times. We really started going again regularly in the 90s. I do remember waiting in the Muppet 3D line once for nearly an hour..................

 

[JimmyV]

It depends on what you are comparing. Consider this...

Magic Kingdom 1978 attendance: 14 million
Magic Kingdom 2012 attendance: 17.5 million

The MK attendance for 1972-1974 (the first three full years of operation) was 33 million, holding steady at just around 11 million per year. At 17.5 million for 2012, that is a 60% increase. The notion that some people have that things haven't changed from the beginning is simply unsupportable.

 

[kmarie99]

The MK attendance for 1972-1974 (the first three full years of operation) was 33 million, holding steady at just around 11 million per year. At 17.5 million for 2012, that is a 60% increase. The notion that some people have that things haven't changed from the beginning is simply unsupportable.

That is true, there has been an increse.. but there have also been an incress in the number of rides since 1972-1974 to support the growing number of people.

January 15, 1975 Space Mountain
January 15, 1975 Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress
July 1, 1975 Tomorrowland Transit Authority PeopleMover
September 23, 1980 Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
June 18, 1988 Walt Disney World Railroad Fantasyland Station
July 17, 1992 Splash Mountain
February 25, 1995 Astro Orbiter
October 1, 1996 The Barnstormer
October 7, 1998 Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
June 5, 1999 The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
May 23, 2001 The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
October 8, 2003 Mickey's PhilharMagic
October 9, 2003 Wishes Nighttime Spectacular
November 16, 2004 Stitch's Great Escape!
April 2, 2007 Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor
April 1, 2011 Town Square Theater Mickey Mouse Meet and Greet
July 15, 2011 Tinker Bell's Magical Nook
June 15, 2012 Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station
October 4, 2012 Pete's Silly Sideshow: Meet Minnie and Daisy
October 4, 2012 Pete's Silly Sideshow: Meet Goofy and Donald
November 12, 2012 Celebrate the Magic
December 6, 2012 Ariel's Grotto
December 6, 2012 Storybook Wowzer the Clown
December 6, 2012 Storybook Circus Giggle Gang
December 6, 2012 Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid
December 6, 2012 Enchanted Tales with Belle

 

[redsbe]

The MK attendance for 1972-1974 (the first three full years of operation) was 33 million, holding steady at just around 11 million per year. At 17.5 million for 2012, that is a 60% increase. The notion that some people have that things haven't changed from the beginning is simply unsupportable.

Most of the posts I have read here acknowledge that total attendance has changed but the impression that visiting WDW in past did not involve long waits is clearly false by the many posts. MK attendance has grown, but so have the number of attractions, activities and experiences just within that one park. Once you get beyond the first few years, MK and WDW attendance has grown but the idea that you could have visited in the 1980s and 1990s with no lines, especially in the summer and seasonal holidays, is false - many of us experienced those crowds back then

 

[ucfknight]

I might agree that some of the waits are longer now than they were in the recent past, but waits in the pre-FastPass days were sometimes horrific. Back in the early days (pre-Epcot, DHS, AK), the long waits would start just trying to park at MK and if you hit it wrong, during busy periods you could be turned away.

I remember going with my family in summer in the late 1970s. You are right about the lines at the parking booths being enormous. Back then there were only a few on-site resorts, so almost everyone came by car from I-Drive or 192. That parking lot would be near capacity almost every summer day.

With everyone coming from the parking lot, the lines for the monorail would typically be 45-60 minutes and the ferry boat between 30-45 minutes.

The lines in the parks were long as well. Anything below an hour for 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea made it a "get in line right now" attraction. Space Mountain was 90 minutes or longer.

I also remember going in the very early 80's and waiting an hour to take the newly completed EPCOT Center monorail just so we could see the new park under construction. They let you off at the Epcot station for a few minutes so you could take pictures and look at a couple of sign boards showing you what was going to be there, then you had to re-board the monorail to head back to the Magic Kingdom.

The thing I do miss most about the "old days" is that almost every attraction at Disney World had 2 standby queue lines at that point. With most people being right-handed and with most people just following the person in front of them, the right queue line was always more crowded than the left queue line.

I recall many times when the wait at Space Mountain was almost outside of the building for the right line. We'd go over to the left line and just walk by hundreds of people standing to our right. It would usually cut 5 to 10 minutes off your wait if you did this. Pirates of the Caribbean was a great ride for doing this since the queue lines can't see each other. The left line could be almost a walk-on while the right line had a 20 minute wait.

Unfortunately when FastPass came along, this "trick" no longer worked since FP took away one of the two standby lines.

 

[morethananyonex]

Most of the posts I have read here acknowledge that total attendance has changed but the impression that visiting WDW in past did not involve long waits is clearly false by the many posts. MK attendance has grown, but so have the number of attractions, activities and experiences just within that one park. Once you get beyond the first few years, MK and WDW attendance has grown but the idea that you could have visited in the 1980s and 1990s with no lines, especially in the summer and seasonal holidays, is false - many of us experienced those crowds back then

Yes, exactly. Lower attendance went hand in hand with less to do both in the parks and out.

I have no desire to have those glory days back that also involved 1 park vs 4, 2 resorts, and far less of the attractions that are considered staples of WDW today.

The parks are more crowded today than ever, however that doesn't mean everything was rainbows and sunshine in the past. It's a give and take.

 

[chartle]

That is true, there has been an increse.. but there have also been an incress in the number of rides since 1972-1974 to support the growing number of people.

January 15, 1975 Space Mountain
January 15, 1975 Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress
July 1, 1975 Tomorrowland Transit Authority PeopleMover
September 23, 1980 Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
June 18, 1988 Walt Disney World Railroad Fantasyland Station
July 17, 1992 Splash Mountain
February 25, 1995 Astro Orbiter *
October 1, 1996 The Barnstormer
October 7, 1998 Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin *
June 5, 1999 The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh *
May 23, 2001 The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
October 8, 2003 Mickey's PhilharMagic *
October 9, 2003 Wishes Nighttime Spectacular
November 16, 2004 Stitch's Great Escape! *
April 2, 2007 Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor *
April 1, 2011 Town Square Theater Mickey Mouse Meet and Greet
July 15, 2011 Tinker Bell's Magical Nook
June 15, 2012 Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station
October 4, 2012 Pete's Silly Sideshow: Meet Minnie and Daisy
October 4, 2012 Pete's Silly Sideshow: Meet Goofy and Donald
November 12, 2012 Celebrate the Magic
December 6, 2012 Ariel's Grotto
December 6, 2012 Storybook Wowzer the Clown
December 6, 2012 Storybook Circus Giggle Gang
December 6, 2012 Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid
December 6, 2012 Enchanted Tales with Belle

While I'm in the "I remember years ago, 1977, two hour lines for Space mountain was the norm" camp not all those attractions where new but replacements (*). Also M&G really were not an attraction.

But in 1977 I recall it was the norm to expect to wait in long lines. We went in Aug '77 and I think we maybe waited up to 90 minutes for all the E ticket rides Space Mountain, Small Word CBJ and HOP. This was also back in the day where the ticket books had one less E ticket than teh number of E ticket rides so you had to buy more at around a buck apiece. Don't laugh thats like $50 in todays money.

I think the issue now is that more people are going in the "off season". I recall a post from someone who went on during Xmas week maybe in the 80's where the CMs outnumbered the guests.

 

[JimmyV]

Most of the posts I have read here acknowledge that total attendance has changed but the impression that visiting WDW in past did not involve long waits is clearly false by the many posts.

I personally have visited every year since 1972, except for 1976, 2008 and 2012. I can tell you from first hand experience that a typicaly day in October or January or May now is nothing like what those months were like between 1972 and 1992. Not even close.

 

[wisblue]

I guess everyone's idea of a quality vacation is different. To some people time spent in lines does not = quality vacation.

Yes, you can do 3 FP+ rides then SB, but if SB lines are 60-120 min, then you won't get too many more rides in.

But I am sure there was backlash when the original FP was introduced, then people loved it. Hopefully this will be better than many people seem to think it will be.

That's the thing. The trick is to do things standby when the lines are short and THEN use your FP's. And, during the less busy times the standby lines are not 60-120 minutes except for maybe the most popular attractions, and it has ALWAYS been like that.

 

[JimmyV]

We went in Aug '77 and I think we maybe waited up to 90 minutes for all the E ticket rides Space Mountain, Small Word CBJ and HOP. This was also back in the day where the ticket books had one less E ticket than teh number of E ticket rides so you had to buy more at around a buck apiece. Don't laugh thats like $50 in todays money.

I think that the point that many people miss is that the ticket books served as a natural crowd controller. You don't have that now. When you only had 3 or 4 E Tickets in your book, unless your parents were ready, willing and able to buy more tickets, you had to ration them carefully. That meant very long lines at certain attractions (like Space Mountain), but no lines at other E ticket attractions. I have an old E Ticket framed on my wall and am looking at it now. The choices were:

• Pirates
• Jungle Cruise
• Country Bear Jamboree
• Haunted Mansion
• Small World
• 20,000 Leagues
• WEDway People Mover (yes, you read that right!)
• Space Mountain

So if you had an 11 attraction book, you only had 4 "E" Tickets. Imagine choosing 4 attractions from the list. As you can see, many attractions had absolutely no lines whatsoever. So yes, people are remembering correctly that certain attractions had huge lines. But they are also forgetting that the ticket allocation system pretty much assured that certain areas of the park were quite empty.

 

[redsbe]

I personally have visited every year since 1972, except for 1976, 2008 and 2012. I can tell you from first hand experience that a typicaly day in October or January or May now is nothing like what those months were like between 1972 and 1992. Not even close.

And you can still visit today on a typical day in October, January and May and experience lower crowds and shorter lines. The problem is that in Epcot, TT and Soarn' have become the most popular rides because they are the only major attractions, same goes for the mountains in MK, and TSM in DS. As crowds have increased those rides have drawn the most interest. But for the majority of rides and attractions crowds during off season dates are still resulting in short rides.

In my view, the biggest issue facing WDW (and has driven FP+) is the slow response of WDW to respond to the few most popular attractions with the introduction of new rides in Epcot and DS as crowds and demand increased over the last decade. Adding one or two more major attractions to each of those parks would help distribute the crowds better and reduce lines for the most popular rides.

But Disney instead decided to focus on AK and expanding CA at DL and FL in the MK, as a means of dealing with increased crowds, while not making major additions to DS and Epcot to offset larger crowds and only a few major attractions in those two parks. Interesting beyond, FP+ I am not aware of any major news from Disney about major expansions at DS or Epcot, which means FP+ is the only means they have to address the long line issues for TSM, TT and Soarn'.

 

[JimmyV]

And you can still visit today on a typical day in October, January and May and experience lower crowds and shorter lines. The problem is that in Epcot, TT and Soarn' have become the most popular rides because they are the only major attractions, same goes for the mountains in MK, and TSM in DS. As crowds have increased those rides have drawn the most interest. But for the majority of rides and attractions crowds during off season dates are still resulting in short rides.

In my view, the biggest issue facing WDW (and has driven FP+) is the slow response of WDW to respond to the few most popular attractions with the introduction of new rides in Epcot and DS as crowds and demand increased over the last decade. Adding one or two more major attractions to each of those parks would help distribute the crowds better and reduce lines for the most popular rides.

But Disney instead decided to focus on AK and expanding CA at DL and FL in the MK, as a means of dealing with increased crowds, while not making major additions to DS and Epcot to offset larger crowds and only a few major attractions in those two parks. Interesting beyond, FP+ I am not aware of any major news from Disney about major expansions at DS or Epcot, which means FP+ is the only means they have to address the long line issues for TSM, TT and Soarn'.

I agree with absolutely everything that you have said. The public migrated over to thrill rides, and Disney has not kept up with that demand causing a cruch at the few thrill rides that exist. The only thing I would add to your post is that while it is true that one can enjoy smaller crowds today in October and May, it is still nothing like it used to be. Food and Wine has had a huge impact on October attendance. I have an old packet from one our trips with receipts in it. We paid $37 dollars a night for a room at the Contemporary, and I remember my mom calling a day or two before our arrival to get the room! The park was so empty that it was almost boring. We used up all our tickets by noon, and then my dad took us golfing and we were still done in time for dinner at Tangoroa Terrace!

 

[AlixaLock]

Growing up in Southern California in the late 70's-the mid-90's we'd visit Disneyland several times a year. Always on a Saturday or Sunday and it was always crowded. I remember waiting routinely over and hour for Space Mountain and that was on a good day. A typical trip involved riding maybe five rides ... Guess what WE LOVED IT! We waited in long lines for food and begged to go back. We BAKED in the sun and walked forever to find the car.

I remember when the Indiana Jones ride opened. We waited 2 hrs every time we were in the park and that was part of the fun! We brought cards, we talked, I used to read. It was awesome!!

To each his own and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I dispute both the notion that lines are longer now AND the notion that you can't have an absolutely unbelievable time in a very crowded park!!!

 

[chartle]

I think that the point that many people miss is that the ticket books served as a natural crowd controller. You don't have that now. When you only had 3 or 4 E Tickets in your book, unless your parents were ready, willing and able to buy more tickets, you had to ration them carefully. That meant very long lines at certain attractions (like Space Mountain), but no lines at other E ticket attractions. I have an old E Ticket framed on my wall and am looking at it now. The choices were:

• Pirates
• Jungle Cruise
• Country Bear Jamboree
• Haunted Mansion
• Small World
• 20,000 Leagues
  [*]WEDway People Mover (yes, you read that right!)
• Space Mountain

So if you had an 11 attraction book, you only had 4 "E" Tickets. Imagine choosing 4 attractions from the list. As you can see, many attractions had absolutely no lines whatsoever. So yes, people are remembering correctly that certain attractions had huge lines. But they are also forgetting that the ticket allocation system pretty much assured that certain areas of the park were quite empty.

At first glance I was going to post something about can I have some of what ever you are smoking? But I did find an e ticket dated may 1976 that included the WEDway people mover.

In 1977 I don't remember it being an E ticket.

In fact I'm now very confused. From Allears.net ticket history page we probably got this ticket

2 Day 18 Adventure Vacation Kingdom Book - 2 days admission, 16 attractions, coupon for cruise to Treasure Island, coupon for use of transportation and admission to River Country. Attraction tickets included 5-E, 5-D, 4-C, 1-B, 1-A

But I remember only having to convince my father to buy one more set of E tickets for CBJ but at the time I think there were 8 E ticket attractions.

I'm also sure we rode all these attractions.

 

[JimmyV]

But I remember only having to convince my father to buy one more set of E tickets for CBJ but at the time I think there were 8 E ticket attractions.

I'm also sure we rode all these attractions.

The ticket books changed pretty much annually. We always stayed at the Contemporary, so once they were available, we bought multi-day books like the one you mention. But rarely did our parents buy additional tickets. Only once in a while. With a family of 6, 3 additional "E" tickets for each of us was 18 x $0.90 which was real money. About a third of what our hotel was costing us. So again, what people are mis-remembering about the old days is that with the ticket system in place, you rarely rode an attraction more than once. Now (or at least before FP+), there were plenty of commando threads where people were plotting out strategies for riding Toy Story Mania 5+ times in a day. Back in the old days, you would never, ever do that. You used up your tickets and you headed home. Which is another thing that people are forgetting. In the early days, the parks were dead empty at night. Day visitors had gone home, there were only 3 on property hotels, (unless you counted the ones at LBV's Hotel Plaza Blvd, which, I suppose, you have to), and tickets had run out for many people. So "turnstile attendance" may have been 11 million people per year. But the number of people in the MK after 8:00 p.m., even in the summer, was barely enough to fill a Tea Cup. By the time the afternoon thunderstorms hit, many people had headed home. If you went back to the MK after dinner, you had the place to yourself. If I can dig up some of our old slides, I'll try to upload some. One of the biggest differences was the crowds (or lack thereof) for the parades. You would never have a thread back then about saving a curbside seat on the parade route 2 hours before the parade, or about how rude it was for the tall adult to block your child's view. The parade route always had open spaces, even in the summer.

 

[bcrook]

When I was a kid, and even a younger adult, WDW was not the crazy, crowded place that it is today. There was never more than a ten minute wait for any ride and there were no fastpasses. They just weren't needed.

So, what Disney needs to do, is bring the guest capacity back down to those numbers. Set a cap on guests in each park. A realistic cap, not the insane cap they use now.

Make everyone have reservations for the parks. On site guests and annual passes only. That's it. Bring things back down to an enjoyable level for everyone.

I'm sure this is going to set a fire under many people, but I just don't see any other solution to getting things back to a quality vacation for everyone. I know that's not Disney's goal, it's only my dream, so not going to happen anyway.

Apparently, Disney's goal is to cram as many guests in as possible and basically tell them all that money they paid to get in is only worth three rides ... at a theme park! People are not only accepting this scenario now, they're thanking Disney for it. It's outrageous.

Personally, I would be willing to pay double for the experience the way it used to be. Not sure I'm willing to pay anything for the way things are going now. I grieve for WDW the way it used to be.

Your impression is also my impression as a kid in the 70's.

Honestly, I think they are headed that way. One price like a cruise - and you have access to food, parks, and resorts. There will be lots of extras to add on.

Fewer people spending more money. It would be a great experience for those able to do it. With my DVC purchase, I already feel like I have bought into this plan. I guess the next step is to set up my food and tickets on a monthly maintenance fees plan.

 

[disnut8]

While I'm in the "I remember years ago, 1977, two hour lines for Space mountain was the norm" camp not all those attractions where new but replacements (*). Also M&G really were not an attraction.

But in 1977 I recall it was the norm to expect to wait in long lines. We went in Aug '77 and I think we maybe waited up to 90 minutes for all the E ticket rides Space Mountain, Small Word CBJ and HOP. This was also back in the day where the ticket books had one less E ticket than teh number of E ticket rides so you had to buy more at around a buck apiece. Don't laugh thats like $50 in todays money.

I think the issue now is that more people are going in the "off season". I recall a post from someone who went on during Xmas week maybe in the 80's where the CMs outnumbered the guests.

I bolded the above because I think that hits the nail on the head, at least for me. In 1977, I went for the time at the age of 15. I remember a good time even without FastPasses and only having one park available. I'm sure we waiting in long lines and I know we bought more ticket books than my parents ever expected to. But it set the spark off for all of us.

But now....... people expect to be entertained all the time by something other than themselves or their families. My husband has to have the TV on all the time he's awake if for nothing else but "diversion". But not at Disney World. That's a vacation to him and he doesn't even like to take his phone. While there, he knows there will be lines and if one is too long, we'll find something else to do. So far, after almost 60 trips together, we've never left a park because we were bored. I guess my point is we don't go to Disney World just to ride rides. We go to relax and get away from things. Even if it's simple things or just people watching. It's a vacation, not a journey.

 

[magicbob]

I'm not sure how old you are but I remember HUGE waits for the popular rides. Our family would go every year from the late 80's to early 2000's. Space mountain was sometimes 90 minutes.

OP, not sure of your age, but my childhood trips in 1985 and 1989 were quite full of VERY long waits.

My childhood memories from 1974-1984 and my adult memories of 1984 until FP all included LONG lines.

I'm not sure what you are using as "Day 1", and it certainly was not 1985-1989. But the OP is correct in their recollection of crowds. (But the idea of eliminating off-site day guests is illogical). In the Summers of 1972-1977 when our family did our first 6 trips, the crowds at the MK were nothing like they are now.

Crowds may not have been as high, but there were fewer rides to accomodate the number of people who were there and whenever I was there, lines (even for Carousel of Progress) always took a long time to wait in.

 

[Jenny Sanders]

OP, that would be discrimination, never going to happen...

 

[bababear_50]

A few things I remember
A VERY Long ride in the back of the station wagon with 3 brothers and a sister.
Are we there yet??????

The red,yellow and blue "welcome to Disney World sign.



Parking in the Goofy section of the parking lot and the magical tram picking us up to take us to the park. The Cm on the ride gave a wonderful pre show of what we could expect.
Ah the sights and sounds---Meeting Mickey and Minnie on mainstreet and them hugging my mom.(I still have pictures of this. Trying on fancy hats and posing for pictures(that special shop is now gone). Sitting on a small side street off of mainstreet and having Chip and Dale sneak up behind my brothers --it was priceless. The swan boats were a dream because my favorite book at the time was "The Ugly duckling".




Anyone remember DIVE DIVE DIVE
this was my dad's and my favorite ride
20,000 Leagues


sub being delivered




Soaring above Magic Kingdom
Skyride




Lots of green space and benches to sit and absorb the atmosphere.



Sharing a ride on space mountain with my baby brother and thinking I have to get off of this thing before I throw up.
Never eat a chocolate coated banana before going on your first roller coaster--especially in the dark.


My how things have changed,


Hugs Mel