Teenage Tour Group Nudity at ASMo Pool

[mkycrzy1971]

I find it very hard to believe that this went on for an hour with no one doing anything about it. Seems a bit exaggerated to me.

OP here...this issue is not up for debate, nor did I ask anyone's opinion as to if or if it did not happen...I simply asked if anyone else was witness. Think as you may, but it IS a true story

 

[Elissajoy]

I thought I´d add some comments to this somewhat heated discussion....


I am an American who married a Brazilian . I have 3 beautiful children and we live in Brazil . One of my children is a 14 year old teenage girl.

I am a teacher at a local high shcool , therefore I have a lot of contact with Brazilian teenagers.

My entire family lives in the States ( in Iowa and California) , so we visit a lot . I went to high school in CA and my father was a teacher there.

Brazilians flock in hoards to Florida for several reasons:

-Brazil is a very , very expensive country. Example : a pair of tennis shoes which costs $100 in the Us costs $500 in Brazil for the EXACT same pair.

http://www.establishingabroad.com/bazment/4385.aspx

Brazilians go to Florida to enjoy the outlets , plus the cheap hotels and , of course , the amazing parks.

It has become a tradition for the 15th birthday celebration to send the teen on a Florida "excursion". There are specialized agencies which only organize these teen groups . Brazilians only get their driver´s license when they are 18 , so no car for birhtdays , etc ...a trip is what many middle class Brazilians save up for for a long time to mark this special date.

July is winter break and January is summer break . Brazil is South America´s largest country ( 198 million) and the tourists from Brazil are concentrated basically in these 2 months , bringing these huge groups.

Clarification: Nudity and topless sunbathing is AGAINST the law in Brazil. You will not see it if you visit Brazilian beaches ,contrary to belief. In Europe , it is common , not in Brazil.

The wild teenage girls probably were acting out , comparable to the lovely behavior you see during spring break in Mexico and Florida. I am sure the "spring breakers" don´t normally act in such a terrible manner.

The bottom line is: Group behavior is very different than individual behavior. If you take a group of teens from the US and they go to a resort in Mexico with chaperones they have no relationship with ( chaperones are from agencies) , I promise you , there would be a lot of inappropriate , loud , even lewd behavior.

Brazilian teens are not a different species . There are teens who are shy , teens who are sexually active and teens who are not , polite teens , not so polite teens , just like in the United States.

I in NO WAY condone or support bad behavior by anyone. I would have been very upset if a group of teens were acting in the way described by the original poster and I would have called management.

I think it is high time WDW and the other parks and resorts set down firm guidelines about behavior expected by ALL visitors and enforce this rules. If the rules are broken , the visitor is forced to leave , no money back. Actions/consequences. Limits.

WDW needs to realize they will NOT lose money by enforcing the rules. The groups will still come-the prices and offerings will not suddenly become unattractive just because there are rules in place. Brazilians inject BILLIONs of dollars into the American economy , at a time when it is sorely needed and they will not stop spending if rules are enforced , the florida entertainment /shopping meccea is just too attractive.

WDW and hotels in general needs to send a contract with clear guidelines to be signed by all visitors stating what is not tolerated and it must be respected.

The Brazilians are not animals...we are all adults here and some of the comments are really not very nice. I respect the fact that the group behavior is annoying - I have been on cruises with very annoying big groups ( Americans by the way) and I tend to avoid groups like the plague. People feel anonymous in groups and feel as if the rules don´t apply to them. Rules need to apply.

Just my .02 cents.

Kim

I was very impressed by what you wrote. You are intelligent and insightful. Seeing things from your point of view, although not condoning what those foolish girls did, made me think a bit clearer. Obnoxious people come from all walks of life, just not on the Disboards !!
Thank you.

 

[brazilgirl]

Thank you , Elissajoy , I appreciate it.. I have been fortunate enough to travel a lot throughout the world , and that is one conclusion I have come to-there are obnoxious and nice people everywhere!

Kim

 

[Teacher Princess]

Thank you for your support!

 

[CaptainAlex]

I thought I´d add some comments to this somewhat heated discussion....


I am an American who married a Brazilian . I have 3 beautiful children and we live in Brazil . One of my children is a 14 year old teenage girl.

I am a teacher at a local high shcool , therefore I have a lot of contact with Brazilian teenagers.

My entire family lives in the States ( in Iowa and California) , so we visit a lot . I went to high school in CA and my father was a teacher there.

Brazilians flock in hoards to Florida for several reasons:

-Brazil is a very , very expensive country. Example : a pair of tennis shoes which costs $100 in the Us costs $500 in Brazil for the EXACT same pair.

http://www.establishingabroad.com/bazment/4385.aspx

Brazilians go to Florida to enjoy the outlets , plus the cheap hotels and , of course , the amazing parks.

It has become a tradition for the 15th birthday celebration to send the teen on a Florida "excursion". There are specialized agencies which only organize these teen groups . Brazilians only get their driver´s license when they are 18 , so no car for birhtdays , etc ...a trip is what many middle class Brazilians save up for for a long time to mark this special date.

July is winter break and January is summer break . Brazil is South America´s largest country ( 198 million) and the tourists from Brazil are concentrated basically in these 2 months , bringing these huge groups.

Clarification: Nudity and topless sunbathing is AGAINST the law in Brazil. You will not see it if you visit Brazilian beaches ,contrary to belief. In Europe , it is common , not in Brazil.

The wild teenage girls probably were acting out , comparable to the lovely behavior you see during spring break in Mexico and Florida. I am sure the "spring breakers" don´t normally act in such a terrible manner.

The bottom line is: Group behavior is very different than individual behavior. If you take a group of teens from the US and they go to a resort in Mexico with chaperones they have no relationship with ( chaperones are from agencies) , I promise you , there would be a lot of inappropriate , loud , even lewd behavior.

Brazilian teens are not a different species . There are teens who are shy , teens who are sexually active and teens who are not , polite teens , not so polite teens , just like in the United States.

I in NO WAY condone or support bad behavior by anyone. I would have been very upset if a group of teens were acting in the way described by the original poster and I would have called management.

I think it is high time WDW and the other parks and resorts set down firm guidelines about behavior expected by ALL visitors and enforce this rules. If the rules are broken , the visitor is forced to leave , no money back. Actions/consequences. Limits.

WDW needs to realize they will NOT lose money by enforcing the rules. The groups will still come-the prices and offerings will not suddenly become unattractive just because there are rules in place. Brazilians inject BILLIONs of dollars into the American economy , at a time when it is sorely needed and they will not stop spending if rules are enforced , the florida entertainment /shopping meccea is just too attractive.

WDW and hotels in general needs to send a contract with clear guidelines to be signed by all visitors stating what is not tolerated and it must be respected.

The Brazilians are not animals...we are all adults here and some of the comments are really not very nice. I respect the fact that the group behavior is annoying - I have been on cruises with very annoying big groups ( Americans by the way) and I tend to avoid groups like the plague. People feel anonymous in groups and feel as if the rules don´t apply to them. Rules need to apply.

Just my .02 cents.

Kim

Well said. Thanks.

 

[disfan07]

Thank you , Elissajoy , I appreciate it.. I have been fortunate enough to travel a lot throughout the world , and that is one conclusion I have come to-there are obnoxious and nice people everywhere!

Kim

While I agree that this is true and there are obnoxious people from everywhere (especially teenagers) I have been to WDW when the brazilian tour groups were there, Pop warner, magic music days, festival disney, etc and the worst groups by far have always been the brazilian tour groups.

People always told me horror stroies of POP warner and they were nothing compared to what we have encountered during the summer. But that is just from my experience.

I think that has to do with the chaperones more than the teenagers though. When we went to WDW both times for magic music days, if we behaved the way i've seen those groups behave, our butts would have been back in the rooms or on the bus so quickly our heads would have been spinning.

I really think the chaperones (when they are around) are more to blame than the teenagers a lot of the time. If the chaperones don't discipline and set rules for the kids, why should they behave.

 

[GAN]

If you people did complain and it was taken care of then the managers of the area need to be reprimanded now! This can include days off without pay as well as a fine. This is Disney and is supposed to represent a family resort, where leud behavior that is offensive to American culture. If you want to go topless or wear thongs, stay in the Caribean, not at WDW!!!

Unless I've missed something, Brazil/ Paraguay have never considered themselves part of the "Caribean."

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Absolutely disgusting comment

While I agree that young girls today often do dress too old for their age, I disagree that all men would want to look at the breasts of a 14 year old GIRL. I can imagine that a shirtless woman would cause most men to do a double take. I also truly believe that only pedophiles would want to keep looking once they realized that the "woman" was actually a 14 year old child.

Kelma

I will say this. Nowadays it is VERY hard to tell the difference between a 14 yo girl and a 18 yo woman. I'm in my 30's and yes i look young but I've been mistaken for a teenager many times. Look at Ms. Teen USA she looks like she could be 25 yo.
As for OP's story i'm not sure how much to believe but I will say that if people are actin gout you complain immediately not later on.

 

[epcot.girl]

I will say this. Nowadays it is VERY hard to tell the difference between a 14 yo girl and a 18 yo woman.

I agree.

I wanted to add that a developed 14 year old being considered a 'girl' is a social construct. The age of consent in most of Europe is below 18 (the lowest is Spain at 13). Biologically speaking, a developed female is physically ready for mating regardless of her age. Yes that may make people uncomfortable, but that's how it is from a biological standpoint - and biological urges can be very difficult to overcome. Hence, some men (who are not necessarily paedophiles - paedophilia is primarily an interest in pre-pubescent or early pubertal aged individuals, not sexually developed individuals) may look.

Of course it goes without saying that people should obey the law, etc.

 

[justbishop]

Absolutely disgusting comment

While I agree that young girls today often do dress too old for their age, I disagree that all men would want to look at the breasts of a 14 year old GIRL. I can imagine that a shirtless woman would cause most men to do a double take. I also truly believe that only pedophiles would want to keep looking once they realized that the "woman" was actually a 14 year old child.

Kelma

Not that I condone older men creepily leering at or pusuing teenaged girls, but I wish people would not misuse the word "pedophile" in this way. Technically, a pedophile is someone who finds prepubescent children sexually attractive. The ages we consider legal are completely arbitrary, and like it or not, many kids are physically mature before they hit them.

And just to be clear, I too would have been disgusted if I had seen a bunch of middle aged men drooling over this event. Just because we are biologically attracted to young, healthy looking mates for the purpose of successful procreation doesn't mean that we should forget that we are also an intelligent species able to figure out that this is not acceptable in our current culture.

And re: picking on Brazil...I have thankfully never had to deal with a large nuisance group from any country on one of my WDW trips, but in my experience here, it seems the biggest complaints are about Brazilian groups and Pop Warner/cheerleading groups. I understand that rude people do not all come from one or two countries, but until I start seeing (valid) complaints about large groups of people from other countries (roving chanting bands of hundreds of Japanese tourists?), I will continue to dread the chance of running into a Brazilian tour or American sports group.

 

[NikitaZee]

Not that I condone older men creepily leering at or pusuing teenaged girls, but I wish people would not misuse the word "pedophile" in this way. Technically, a pedophile is someone who finds prepubescent children sexually attractive. The ages we consider legal are completely arbitrary, and like it or not, many kids are physically mature before they hit them.

 

[declansdad]

OP here...this issue is not up for debate, nor did I ask anyone's opinion as to if or if it did not happen...I simply asked if anyone else was witness. Think as you may, but it IS a true story

Something on the Dis not open for debate.

Still think an hour would be an exaggeration. Did it happen, probably did, to that extent, highly doubt it.

 

[NikitaZee]

Something on the Dis not open for debate.

Still think an hour would be an exaggeration. Did it happen, probably did, to that extent, highly doubt it.

Au contraire - I'm of the belief that it probably happened more than once, for just as long - the OP just witnessed it one time.

 

[crostorfer]

I don't care where they were from. They could be Brazillian, Argentinian, or the Junior Swedish Bikini Team. It doesn't make a difference. And for arguement's sake, it doesn't matter if they appeared "legal" or not. You shouldn't be naked, or topless, poolside at a Disney owned resort, on Disney property. Period. The fact that these were underage girls just adds a little pepper to the story.

 

[justbishop]

I don't care where they were from. They could be Brazillian, Argentinian, or the Junior Swedish Bikini Team. It doesn't make it right for them to be underage. And for arguement's sake, it doesn't matter if they appeared "legal" or not. You shouldn't be naked, or topless, poolside at a Disney owned resort, on Disney property. Period. The fact that these were underage girls just adds a little pepper to the story.

I think we're all on the same page here

 

[kelma]

Not that I condone older men creepily leering at or pusuing teenaged girls, but I wish people would not misuse the word "pedophile" in this way. Technically, a pedophile is someone who finds prepubescent children sexually attractive. The ages we consider legal are completely arbitrary, and like it or not, many kids are physically mature before they hit them.

Well, I guess if we're going into semantics, I could have said that a person who finds a post-pubescent 14 year old girl sexually attractive as a Hebephile. I recognize that my use of the word "pedophile" in my post does not meet the mental health definition. I was using it in the more popular understanding of it as someone who is sexually attracted to someone young enough to make it both morally and legally wrong.

I realize that you view the various ages of consent as "arbitrary" and I agree that they can seem that way as they vary from state to state, country to country. I have to ask, though, if you really believe that age of consent should have anything to do with how "physically mature" a child is? Many children have developed at 9 or 10. A physically mature 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 year old is still mentally and emotionally a child. The reason we have these "arbitrary" laws is to protect these children regardless of how mature their bodies look.

Kelma

 

[justbishop]

Well, I guess if we're going into semantics, I could have said that a person who finds a post-pubescent 14 year old girl sexually attractive as a Hebephile. I recognize that my use of the word "pedophile" in my post does not meet the mental health definition. I was using it in the more popular understanding of it as someone who is sexually attracted to someone young enough to make it both morally and legally wrong.

I realize that you view the various ages of consent as "arbitrary" and I agree that they can seem that way as they vary from state to state, country to country. I have to ask, though, if you really believe that age of consent should have anything to do with how "physically mature" a child is? Many children have developed at 9 or 10. A physically mature 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 year old is still mentally and emotionally a child. The reason we have these "arbitrary" laws is to protect these children regardless of how mature their bodies look.

Kelma

Nope, I don't:

[...snip]

And just to be clear, I too would have been disgusted if I had seen a bunch of middle aged men drooling over this event. Just because we are biologically attracted to young, healthy looking mates for the purpose of successful procreation doesn't mean that we should forget that we are also an intelligent species able to figure out that this is not acceptable in our current culture.

[...snip]

 

[kelma]

Nope, I don't:

I did see your entire post, I'm just not sure how that answered my question?

 

[brazilgirl]

While I agree that this is true and there are obnoxious people from everywhere (especially teenagers) I have been to WDW when the brazilian tour groups were there, Pop warner, magic music days, festival disney, etc and the worst groups by far have always been the brazilian tour groups.

People always told me horror stroies of POP warner and they were nothing compared to what we have encountered during the summer. But that is just from my experience.

I think that has to do with the chaperones more than the teenagers though. When we went to WDW both times for magic music days, if we behaved the way i've seen those groups behave, our butts would have been back in the rooms or on the bus so quickly our heads would have been spinning.

I really think the chaperones (when they are around) are more to blame than the teenagers a lot of the time. If the chaperones don't discipline and set rules for the kids, why should they behave.

I am sure the Brazilians do stand out. I think there are a couple of factors involved . Firstly , over 550,000 Brazilians visit Orlando every year (I googled it!) , mostly during 2 months of the year. That is a huge amount of people.

Secondly , they travel in tour groups usually , not with their families. From what I read ( I googled again!) , Canadians are the other biggest international group visiting , and I would venture to guess most of them come in families.

So , Japanese , Swedes and other international visitors are a negligible number of visitors in comparsion to the hordes Brazilians.

As I mentioned previously , I think the chaperones are an issue. wWhen I grew up in CA , we visited Disneyland with our school. The chaperones were teachers , people we had to be accountable to.The Brazilian groups in general are chaperoned by paid young adults who work for travel agencies , wo do not no the kids from Adam most of the time. This creates a situation that does not bode well for discipline.

Again , I feel confident in saying that American teens in the same situation could very likely be found acting in the same manner...

My daughter will be trvleing in a group in January ( Watch out! LOl!) I took the care of finding a group which is run by her language school , with chaperones both she and I know. There will be a chaperone with every 10 kids , and they will be accompanied at all times. We have had several meetings with the TA and will have more about rules and expectations.

As I said , the chaperones need to recieve guidelines from WDW/ Universal and be held accountable for their group , otherwise they should get kicked out . Then , parents would lose their money and things would start to change.

Kim

 

[justbishop]

I did see your entire post, I'm just not sure how that answered my question?

Sorry, I felt that it did. I'll elaborate:

No, I do not believe that age of consent should have anything to do with how physically mature a child is. I believe it should be based on how mentally mature they are, and our culture's current system does an acceptable job of doing that (of course, there are exceptions).

In the portion of my previous post that I quoted in my first attempt to answer your question, I was basically saying that even though men are biologically hardwired to find the youngest, healthiest sexually mature females attractive (because they have the best chance of producing healthy offspring, and are at the beginning of their childbearing years), there really isn't an excuse for bypassing the logical part of the brain that tells us that it is NOT acceptable in our time/culture to do so.

So if you really read and comprehend my posts, you can see that I'm actually agreeing with you