Teaching to the standardized tests... Why, Why, Why?

[Sandy51]

Do I teach to the test? I have no idea. I've never even looked at my test. I really don't want to know what is on it. I do, however, teach the content standards that the state of WV and my county school system have in place. NCLB is a nightmare. We still have identified special education students, but they have to be tested with the regular ed population. They "all" have to be on grade level. We have not met AYP for the last 2 years because of our Special ed. department. We do not blame them. It's an almost impossible goal.


Sandy

 

[KarenB]

I think it is a shame that one test can carry so much weight. In all of my college education classes, it was stressed that we should give many types of assessments to reach ALL types of learners. Now, when looking at a child, school or district, many times we look at that ONE piece of assessment, "The Test" instead of the whole picture.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Bad idea.

I was an honor student/AP student and when I moved to Florida--evidently I almost failed what I guess was the FCAT or equivilant my senior year. Very very odd---I excel at math. I guess they figure academics aren't important so long as you can pass a silly test.

I'm happy to report that my SAT scores and all standardized tests to date were just fine and dandy. But when I moved to one of the lower states on the education scale--all of a sudden...I'm nearly ineligible to graduate.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Do I teach to the test? I have no idea. I've never even looked at my test. I really don't want to know what is on it. I do, however, teach the content standards that the state of WV and my county school system have in place. NCLB is a nightmare. We still have identified special education students, but they have to be tested with the regular ed population. They "all" have to be on grade level. We have not met AYP for the last 2 years because of our Special ed. department. We do not blame them. It's an almost impossible goal.


Sandy

As an example...

In florida the students have FCAT workbooks--with sample tests from previous years--and my babysitters at least--will be working on these workbooks for 2-3 months in lieu of regular textbook work and classroom learning.

It isn't in addtion to the curriculum. It is instead of the curriculum.

 

[froglady]

Bad idea.

I was an honor student/AP student and when I moved to Florida--evidently I almost failed what I guess was the FCAT or equivilant my senior year. Very very odd---I excel at math. I guess they figure academics aren't important so long as you can pass a silly test.

I'm happy to report that my SAT scores and all standardized tests to date were just fine and dandy. But when I moved to one of the lower states on the education scale--all of a sudden...I'm nearly ineligible to graduate.

Another reason why my children were/are in private school. No FCAT. I'm a lot more interested on how they do on standardized, NATIONAL (such as SATs, ACTs), testing than on a state test.

 

[janette]

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not. If a "special ed" child can't pass the same test, then they don't need to be in the same class. Period. It's not that I can not sympathize with their plight. It's simply that I do not believe in "social" promotion. Either you can do the work or you can't. "Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child.

My 11yo DD is one of the kids classified special ed, she gets good grades in Math & Science but has a reading disability. Her reading due to the education she's received and special programs is almost up to level. If she'd had to stay in 1st grade until she learned to read she'd have been there until she was a 3rd grader. What good would that have done except to make her hate school for the rest of her life. Social aspects do have to be considered in class placement, no someone shouldn't just pass because they are older but we don't want a 21yo in 5th grade because that is the level of learning they are capable of.

The tests are a politicians answer to fixing schools, it is an administrative fix only and doesn't really help what matters that our schools are a mess and our kids are falling further behind.

Yes, there are many schools teaching the test. My older DD's 3rd grade math teacher told them they didn't need to cover a section in the book because it wasn't on TAKS so they would just skip it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not. If a "special ed" child can't pass the same test, then they don't need to be in the same class. Period. It's not that I can not sympathize with their plight. It's simply that I do not believe in "social" promotion. Either you can do the work or you can't. "Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child.

But in some cases--the test doens't prove they can't do 3rd grade math. It might just prove they stink at standardized tests.

I was beyond 12th grade math. Did better than fine on every single standardized test I ever took. Took "exit exams" in 2 states--some kind of state standardized test that you had to pass to graduate. Excelled on those. As I posted--according to my test in Florida my senior year--I all of a sudden suck at math? The odd part was the English or grammar or whatever was better. For the first time in history. Now that was odd.

 

[luvmyfam444]

QUOTE ...and less than 10 under standardized testing

No we've had standardized tests WAY longer than 10 years - I took them in grade school so that would have been in the 80's.....

 

[Caradana]

Lisa loves Pooh, that is exceedingly odd about your performance on the FCAT. Did you have an off-day? What was it that you didn't know what to do? (trig?)

Here's the kicker - AP courses teach directly to a test. College classes teach mostly to a final exam or paper, especially abroad (most Australian universities base grades solely on performance on a final exam). Where did you learn most of what you know? The best teaching I've experienced came in AP coursework and college classes.

I don't think you can teach a kid how to think, really. The ability to think, analyze, and deduce is directly connected to innate intelligence. What can you teach? Set content. The brightest kids in the class are going to figure out the overarching structure of what you're trying to teach them, and they'll be able to solve "like problems" and combine "related concepts," effortlessly. These are the kids who score 5s in AP Physics and English in the same year - you know the type. The other kids - I'm really happy if they can learn an ambitious amount of set content. Therefore, for the majority of kids, the idea of teaching to the test doesn't offend me at all.

I don't agree with NCLB because it grossly oversimplifies the complexities of special ed. But I do think we can do much worse than setting a base level of competence, which is what NCLB functionally accomplishes.

 

[froglady]

QUOTE ...and less than 10 under standardized testing

No we've had standardized tests WAY longer than 10 years - I took them in grade school so that would have been in the 80's.....

I remember taking achievement tests in grade school, back in the 50s/early 60s. These were national tests, not state. I think they were Stanford achievement tests, but I'm not sure. They played a role in identifying strengths/weaknesses and class placement in Junior/Senior High, but didn't affect promotion.

 

[bcvillastwo]

According to wvrevy

I know the testing idea came from the "mind" of GWB - and therefore should be thoroughly scrutinized for the inevitable flaw - but I just can not see the problem with requiring a child to be proficient in third grade skills before progressing to fourth grade. Why are standards such a bad thing for schools to have ?

If that is true then why did the Commowealth of Virginia already have standardized testing in place before GWB became President?

Yes, I know, everything wrong in the world, including original sin is GWB's fault. I keep forgetting. Silly me.

 

[bananiem]

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not.

So what do you do with a child that scores in the 90= %ile for reading and language, but gets a 40% in math? Make them re-take 3rd grade, even though their language skills are higher than grade level?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa loves Pooh, that is exceedingly odd about your performance on the FCAT. Did you have an off-day? What was it that you didn't know what to do? (trig?)

I got a 5 on my Calc AP exam 6 months later--so beats the heck out of me. Yes we used old testing situations for our exams to test us on the material. But there is no way to predict what will be on an AP exam so my teacher didn't miss a beat with anything. And on THAT day--my step-father was being pure evil and I had shown up to exam morning crying. Panicked my poor calc teacher. Came out unscathed academically.

Honestly--I have no idea. Not sure what it was. But it was very odd. I did pass it--so they felt no need to really go over why the score was as low as it was.

Prior to that I was in New Orleans and while LA is lowest on the totem pole--I was at Ben Franklin High school for soph more and Junior. I credit them single handedly for boosting my SAT scores 300 points and it wasn't b/c they taught to the test. Just a very strong academic curriculum. I didn't even take a prep class. It is a very difficult school to get into and once in--you must have appropriate grades or you do not make retention. You promote--you just must go to another school.

My marks were MUCH MUCH MUCH better on the LA and SC standardized test that they require students to take. In SC it was called the "exit" exam and I took it in 9th grade. Not sure what it was called in LA--but I took something similar in 10th or 11th grade. When I moved to Florida I again had to take an exam to prove my worthiness to graduate.

I just despise the testing situation in Florida--and really do not think that it benefits middle schoolers like my sitters--who must spend 2-3 months learning the test instead of anything else.

 

[bcvillastwo]

So what do you do with a child that scores in the 90= %ile for reading and language, but gets a 40% in math? Make them re-take 3rd grade, even though their language skills are higher than grade level?

I know what they used to do in the 50's and 60's in the schools I attended in Fairfax County, Va. I know of instances where they promoted the kid, but make then go back to the previous grade for their arithmetic work.

I can't say how often this happened because I was just a kid, but I know it happened.

Furthermore, throughout my school years the children were divided into three levels for each subject. It wasn't unusual for a child to be at the highest level in math, lowest level in reading, and mid level in the other subjects.

From my perspective the teachers in those days managed to handle the challenge of all three levels, unrully undrugged boys, large class sizes, etc. and they did so without teachers aides, no gym teachers in grade school, no assistant principles in grade school, and no school psychologists and all with order and discipline in the classrooms. I look back in wonder at those times and how much things have changed.

 

[bananiem]

From my perspective the teachers in those days managed to handle the challenge of all three levels, unrully undrugged boys, large class sizes, etc. and they did so without teachers aides, no gym teachers in grade school, no assistant principles in grade school, and no school psychologists and all with order and discipline in the classrooms. I look back in wonder at those times and how much things have changed.

Me too.

 

[MosMom]

I thought the way to "measure" was your report card and GPA. Why do we need another federal program to measure students as well? When I was tested with standardized tests in school, everyone knew they were a breeze. I STILL have some of the example questions memorized (they were the same every year)...a baloo is a bear, a baloo is a bear. Anyone from Indiana remember that? Passing them was a breeze and I wasn't a stellar student, I made honor roll a few times but I was average. I wonder if the difficulty of the tests have increased over the past 12 years. If they haven't, this shouldn't be a problem for your average quality school system. I could see problems arising in inner city schools where there is inadequate funding, teaching, and parenting. I believe the NCLB act was meant more for those schools to begin with but I'm not really sure what they are hoping to accomplish. These schools are already on "bad school" lists...so now they can just be added to another "bad school" list and get even more funding taken away. Seems smart to me. Perhaps a positive reward system might have worked better for these schools. Forcing these schools to give tests won't magically erase the poverty levels of the children attending them.

Without fundraising (pizza hut cards, Market Day, Box Tops for Education, soup labels, ink cartridges, book fair, McDonalds night, etc. etc. etc.) many schools would have a hard time making it. I'm fairly certain most parents in poverty stricken school districts aren't shelling out $$ every week for a new fundraiser. How do they think NCLB will work without extra money?

"Do you know that NCLB only mandates required levels in Reading, Math and Science. Say goodbye to Social Studies, Writing, Art, Music, and anything else other than Reading, Math, and Science. Those are all quickly disappearing from the classroom because there is no incentive for schools to "waste" time on them.

Science is not required until the 2007-2008 school year. Even then, it will only need to be tested once every 2 to 3 years. Once for 3-5, once for 6-9 and once for 10-12.
Science is a scary subject anyway, we'll just test that as infrequently as possible. Who knows what kind of animal-human hybrids these kids will dream up if they get too much science in schools!

 

[monsterkitty]

We can't teach to the test in my state. It is a different test every year and we are not allowed to see the test until the students open their test books on the first day of the test.

We teach the state standards, which are tested by our CSAP test. Students should know everything that is on that test because the subject matter should be taught.

However, our tests are not written at grade level. When our tests were being written, a state committee asked the company who wrote the test to raise the standards. For example, my niece as a 10th grader took the SAT test for the first time. She received a score of 750 (highest is 800). Two weeks later she took the 10th grade CSAP math test. She scored partially proficient. Several universities have now concluded that the 10th Grade CSAP math test is more difficult than the SAT test, a test which Seniors take. The third grade reading and writing is on a fourth grade level. If your child, regardless of grade level, scores a partially proficient on any part of the CSAP test, the child is actually working on grade level, yet the child is penalized by having to take remedial classes.

Colorado law requires all Juniors take the ACT test, even those with severe special needs. Our state average for 2004 was 20.3 compared to the National average of 20.9. So if you glance at the score you would think that Colorado is behind the other states in education. If you remove the scores of those students with severe special needs the score would probably exceed the National average. However, state law forbids the removal of the scores.

I guess my point is you cannot really judge a child's knowledge or a school's performance level based on what the reported test score are. There is much more going on behind those scores that the public is not aware of.

 

[CheshireVal]

According to wvrevy

If that is true then why did the Commowealth of Virginia already have standardized testing in place before GWB became President?

Yes, I know, everything wrong in the world, including original sin is GWB's fault. I keep forgetting. Silly me.

Standardized tests have been around for forever, you're right. However, NCLB kinda sorta upped the importance of them.

 

[cardaway]

We can't teach to the test in my state. It is a different test every year and we are not allowed to see the test until the students open their test books on the first day of the test.

But it's likely the test in each state changes very little from year to year. What bothers me is the focus on prepping for the test and then going back to situation normal for the rest of the year.

I agree that these tests have been around for years, but I also agree that their meaning took a dramatic turn in the last few years.

 

[brerrabbit]

I have not read all the posts but since my DS is a junior in college and my DD is a sophmore in HS we have been dealing with them for some time now. My two biggest gripes are this, the idea of standardized test has created a large segment of students who are not learning a good broad base of knowledge. As my daughter says in a lot of her classes students ask "will this be on the test?" referring both to the weekly exams and the standardized test. This to me shows that the average student does not care about learning but only passing the test. This is jus t wrong. The second thing it does is give the wrong signal to educators. I have a friend who is a great guy and is a plumber. He and his family own their own business. Now his wife is definatly the "brains" of the operation running the business side. He asked me what the big deal about standardized testing was and this is how I explained it to him. I said imagine you are in apprentice school learning to be a plumber and I as your instuctor will have my whole evaluation for the year and my next pay raise based on how well you install toilets. Forget the fact that you need to learn how to install water heaters, tubs, sinks, pipes or anything else that a plumber does. If my job, income and security into the future is how well you install toilets then how long do you think I am going to spend teaching you about toilets? And how little time will I spend teaching you about anything else? In the end your gonna be a whiz installing toilets, and hopefully I'm gonna get a raise. He understood why standardized testing wasn't such a good thing pretty quickly.