Teaching to the standardized tests... Why, Why, Why?

[Toby'sFriend]

Have we had enough time yet to fairly assess the use of standardized testing.

yes we have had plenty of time. The tests are terrible.

But the problem isn't the tests. Frankly, the tests are showing what most people already know -- a huge achievement gap between schools based largely on geographic location, funding, and population.

The problem is school systems, the teachers, the parents, and the kids themselves.

 

[Tanuki]

I have a 4 1/2 year old. There are so many people complaining about the tests. I was just wondering if there was anything on the test that you think your child really has absoultely no need to know? What is your child learning that is such a complete waste of time?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Maybe standardized tests aren't the answer. But, I then I think about what was happening before we went to standardized tests. Well there's pretty strong evidence that the state schools weren't performing very well. But, wait they weren't teaching to the test in those days were they.

From what I can see the state schools didn't do a very good job before we had standardized testing and the early evidence is they aren't doing an appreciably better job under a standardized testing environment.

I want to address this....
I came from Missouri, moved to Texas in April.
Missouri has "Assessment Tests" MAP tests. (don't have to pass)
Texas has TAKS tests. (have to pass)

From my assesment Missouri schools ARE NOT taught for a "National Level" AND there was NO ACCOUNTABILITY!!!
My kids did NOT learn enough in the Missouri public school system.

Do I think standardized testing is the answer? I don't know.
I do know their should be a set of National Standards at the very least with regard to passing standard courses.

When we moved here at the end of Middle School, Missouri schools do not offer Biology as a Freshman course in HS. You HAD to take a BLOW OFF "Unified Science" class. That MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!
What is up with THAT????

Here she got to take PRE-AP Biology as a FRESHMAN.

This is a big deal to her as she is going for a science degree.

Can someone explain how Missouri can NOT ALLOW a FRESHMAN to take Biology if they want to?
Something is very wrong with this.

 

[In a hurry]

I have a 4 1/2 year old. There are so many people complaining about the tests. I was just wondering if there was anything on the test that you think your child really has absoultely no need to know? What is your child learning that is such a complete waste of time?

True knowledge is never a waste of time. But cramming and teaching how to take a test is a waste of valuable time for a 1st grade kid. They need to be focussing on reading and math basics with history and science, art and music, etc.

I haven't seen any test that accurately shows either what a 1st grader knows, or predicts how they will do. And that is 20 years of teaching talking.

I don't think this is central to first grade, either, that is merely my forte.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

The schools don't have a choice because of NCLB. They have to show adequate yearly progress or the school will be put on the "bad school" list. If they don't bring the scores up after that the district has to let parents choose another school for their child to attend, and the district has to pay the transportation cost.
Also, each grade level is tested against the previous year's scores. I feel sorry for the grade that follows my dd's class. They are a bunch of smart cookies and their scores were phenomenal. And not the kind of scores that a school should expect to get continually.

P.S. ultimately the teacher could lose his/her job if the scores are not high enough. NCLB wants ALL and I mean ALL kids proficient by 2014 I think. That is a totally unattainable goal. IF you parents do not like it there is one thing you can do write your legislators and tell them! Other than that you better get used to teaching to the test b/c as one person said teachers are totally powerless.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I was just wondering if there was anything on the test that you think your child really has absoultely no need to know? What is your child learning that is such a complete waste of time?

Do you know that NCLB only mandates required levels in Reading, Math and Science. Say goodbye to Social Studies, Writing, Art, Music, and anything else other than Reading, Math, and Science. Those are all quickly disappearing from the classroom because there is no incentive for schools to "waste" time on them.

It is not that it is a waste of time. It is that it is a completely one dimensional education that wants every single kid in America to be at exactly the same level regardless of their talents and/or challenges. It has no regard for their particular circumstances, whether or not English is their primary, secondary or 5th language, whether or not they have lived in the District since Kindergarten or if they just moved to the District the week before the test is given. EVERYBODY MUST BE THE SAME!

I'm glad my son doesn't have to mess with these any longer. His school does a Fall and Spring Terra Nova testing, but it is used more the way Standardized Tests were originally meant to be used -- to assess how effective the school is and also to assess whether he individually is progressing as he should be.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

this is quite interesting.I remember about a year ago,reading of several schools that were under investigation for teaching the tests, the article stated that if they were found to be guilty, they would lose state and federal funding... and be fined...

if I remember correctly the schools were from several states..

HUH? HOw can you teach the test. You can teach to the test and use all the previous tests to practice (at least in MA) but I do not really understand what the problem was unless...the school got hold of the actual test for that year and gave the kids the answers. That is not teaching the test, that is cheating.

 

[BeNJeNWaFFLe]

HUH? HOw can you teach the test. You can teach to the test and use all the previous tests to practice (at least in MA) but I do not really understand what the problem was unless...the school got hold of the actual test for that year and gave the kids the answers. That is not teaching the test, that is cheating.

It is that the teachers are teaching the students how to pass the test. They are not teaching the students the basic skills of the subject so that they can study and use their knowledge to come up with the right answer. The teachers are just giving the students enough to go on so they pass the test. They aren't being taught how to come up with the answer them selves. It is hard to explain, but there is a big difference.

Now for the part about having the actual test...I thought something like that happened recently here. I can't remember exactly though.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

No, you can thank GWB for this, although most of these tests were in place before him. I wonder just how much progress has been made and at what expense. DD (who is now a sr. in hs) stressed more about CMTs etc. than she did about her SATs. It's a horrible situation that neither teachers nor parents are happy about.

You are right GWB is responsible for NCLB or Adequate Yearly Progress. In the past in my state as long as the child was able to pass the test it was fine and this was an acquirable goal. Now these same children need to progress from just passing to reaching the higher levels and ultimately proficent which for MANY Sped kids is impossible no matter what accomodations. IN MA they have alternate assessment which is a process of gathering work and "evidence" that the child has been able to master the skill but it is a joke. For example, a child who is able to turn on the light on an aquarium but has an iq of 40 is demonstrating an understanding of electricity. HOWEVER, if the task is not equal to the task on the regular assessment then the child still fails. Does this sound like income tax law? Wrong it is much worse and much more complex. OH and P.S. out of the sped population who takes this assessment, only 2 students (not 2 % )passed out of the whole state. This whole thing is a joke and honestly hurts all kids not just sped.

 

[Buckalew11]

We had a school here that cheated and taught the actual test. It was in my county and they got caught (HS level).

For me, it is just teaching the kids exactly what is on the test. It is the way they teach this very thing. It isn't about learning and building one year upon another. It is all about the stupid test.

Our school doesn't do it because we don't take Tcaps. We take SATs and we get no funding from the government. There is no pressure and no "teaching" the tests. They do practice a 'test' making sure everyone colors in those dots correctly. LOL

For those who have to pass a test to go on, I just feel bad for the kids who don;t test well and feel the pressure. That must be so stressful!

 

[cardaway]

I think my key gripe is that these "tutoring" sessions are obviously nothing but crash courses to improve the test results. Way too many kids involved on too many subjects for it to be about anything else.

The sad part is this kind of thing isn't bad idea for the kids who really need help, but that isn't what is happening.

Just speculation, but if the test results are important, it makes this important. Otherwise it's not, and everybody has soemthing else to do...

 

[wvrevy]

Sorry...I know the testing idea came from the "mind" of GWB - and therefore should be thoroughly scrutinized for the inevitable flaw - but I just can not see the problem with requiring a child to be proficient in third grade skills before progressing to fourth grade. Why are standards such a bad thing for schools to have ?

The problem with NCLB isn't the tests, or even that it was put together by a man that probably couldn't spell the word education, let alone say it without adding a syllable or two (edumacation, maybe? ). The problem is that we have been so long without standards that people are rebelling when they are put in place.

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not. If a "special ed" child can't pass the same test, then they don't need to be in the same class. Period. It's not that I can not sympathize with their plight. It's simply that I do not believe in "social" promotion. Either you can do the work or you can't. "Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child.

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

Here in Ohio, the achievement tests are based on a series of state standards
and objectives, which school districts are encouraged to make their curriculum.

So in a sense, we are "teaching to the test", but the test reflects our curriculum
guidelines, and vice-versa.

At least someone has finally injected some common sense into our situation,
starting next year they are moving the testing the window to May, allowing us
most of the full school year to teach the necessary standards and objectives.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

Starting last week the kids in the day care have been going to "tutoring" classes. Ony yesterday did I find out they are actually going to specific study classes because it was determined they need to work on certain thing before the state tests are given.

I suspect this has everything to do with the schools thrying to get their collective test scores higher.

Good idea or bad idea?

I definately has everything to do with the schools trying to get their test scores higher. I didn't realize when I posted earlier that your in WA too. They are prepping these kids for the WASL. There is a website called mothersagainstwasl.org you should check it out - it's very enlightening. Made me furious after I read some of the information there. I have a 10th grader that will have to pass to graduate and a 4th grader that will take the test this year too.

 

[Jockaroo]

This was my experience. Background: I accepted a teaching position at a high school and was assigned 2 classes of 11th grade English and one class of American History (primarily 11th grade, few 12.) I resigned and worked out a notice until a replacement could be found--I was with the students about 4 weeks.

My English students could not identify the parts of speech, write a grammatically correct sentence, or read on grade level. I was told to read aloud to them in class or play the "book on tape" text. I was told that their achievement level did not matter. The state achievement test in English was given in the 10th grade and, therefore, they were "home-free" regarding the tests. It did not matter that the majority of the students were functionally illiterate.

I was told that I needed to worry about the Am. History class, however, since this was an end-of-grade test subject. The kids at this school had horrible scores and the test scores must be raised. I was provided with a 5" thick binder of items to teach based on the previous year's end-of-grade (EOG) exam. I was reprimanded for attempting to teach the class about the Articles of the Confederation and the ideals behind our nation's Constitution. I was told not to worry about explaining the differences in the executive, judicial and legislative branches. The reason: there were only 2 test questions about these "trivial" historical concepts on the test the year before, therefore, they were not important for the students to learn.

Understand that this was a school where the majority of the students would not attend college, so what I was teaching would be the end of their formal education. Since the students were pre-determined to enter the local factory (which has since closed), it did not matter if the students graduated illiterate--as long as they could pass a test that was crammed down their throats the entire year. I guess you can figure out the reason I quickly resigned and washed my hands of teaching.

Regarding the 10th grade English tests given the year prior, I received a memo that the state would not be counting the tests from that year for the 4th and 10th grades due to dismal performance. Apparently it was a newly written test and there was a loophole to allow the scores to be quaived. I did not realize the significance of this memo at the time--if I had, I sure would have kept it. These state-mandated tests are turning our schools into circuses of fools and the students are suffering. I do think teachers and school adminstrators need to be responsible for their students' learning. But the ramification of NCLB is a time-bomb which will explode sooner than many of us think.

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

"Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child."

Have to respectfully disagree with you here. Although there are many cases
in which teachers do fail to provide for their students, let's not forget that
it is the parents who are ultimately responsible for their child's education.

There are too many factors outside the control of the classroom teacher that
cause children to fail in school to only pin the blame on them.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not. If a "special ed" child can't pass the same test, then they don't need to be in the same class. Period. It's not that I can not sympathize with their plight. It's simply that I do not believe in "social" promotion. Either you can do the work or you can't. "Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child.

The problem with our Washington State test is this - my 4th grader can do 4th grade math and is in the top 10% of his class for math. Reading and written communication however are a different story. He's not below grade level but he gets frustrated easily and doesn't test well. So - if he cannot write out in essay form his method of calculating a simple multiplication problem he will fail the WASL and could be held back. I agree with your statement but our method of testing puts more value on being able to write in essay form than in how to do the actual math. And - there is also the added problem of the answers all being in essay form that have to be manually graded by certified graders... so they've introduced human error into the grading process

 

[punkin]

These state-mandated tests are turning our schools into circuses of fools and the students are suffering. I do think teachers and school adminstrators need to be responsible for their students' learning. But the ramification of NCLB is a time-bomb which will explode sooner than many of us think.

I agree. Every teacher whose opinion I value is horrified at the NCLB and call it No Child Allowed to get Ahead. Nevertheless, they have no option but to teach to the test or be fired.

 

[Galahad]

Sorry...I know the testing idea came from the "mind" of GWB -

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. .

1) Every state had statewide testing before NCLB. The idea of testing didn't start with NCLB. NCLB is as much Senator Kennedy's idea as President Bush's.

But,
2) You are absolutely right about the latter. There needs to be a way to measure and nobody's come up with a better way than testing.

 

[momof2inPA]

If a child cannot do third grade math, then that child has no business going on to the fourth grade. It's really as simple as that, in the end. Should exceptions be made ? Absolutely not. If a "special ed" child can't pass the same test, then they don't need to be in the same class. Period. It's not that I can not sympathize with their plight. It's simply that I do not believe in "social" promotion. Either you can do the work or you can't. "Social" promotion helps nobody but the teacher who failed in their duty to teach that child.

Some teachers get the smart kids in their classes and some get the dumb. Is that the teacher's fault? Some teachers who are more proficient at Spanish get the English as a second language students, who may or may not do as well on the test. Is that the teacher's fault? Some teachers who have special training may get children with certain learning issues, who may or may not do well on the test. Is that the teacher's fault. Some good teachers in lousy districts may help their children improve their scores from the last year but not up to the standards, because how much can one teacher do to overcome student/parents/and other teachers' apathy. Is it that one teacher's fault that the kids didn't pass that year? I'm not at all sure that these issues are addressed by simply setting benchmarks.