Teachers/parents, what's your take on this?

[bellebud]

In response to the 'take your kids out of school' threads, I need help understanding the current situation in what seems to be most schools... help me understand how things are working today so it doesn't bug me so much...

my take...

my kids go to private catholic school (currently 3rd and 1st grades) in NY, but i think the situation is fairly the same in our local public schools...

the school has my children from 8am till 3pm, then we have anywhere from 20minutes to 45 minutes of homework depending on the day (for a 6 and 8 year old)... then the entire class regularly get sheets home from the 1st grade teacher "this list of 50 words are what we're working on now and the children need to know them - you can make flash cards to work with your child"... HUH???? While I understand the teacher keeping us 'informed' of what they're doing, it honestly feels more to me like "the kids need to learn this and I can't totally do it during school time"... again, kids are in school 5 days a week, from 8am till 3pm, then have a good amount of homework every day, sometimes weekend projects, are expected to read each day on top of homework, and now i'm supposed to make and work w/ flash cards???????? Seriously, I feel this is SO over-the-top... and while this teacher is the only one asking for us to make flash cards, all the teachers put a fair amount of responsibility on the parents for learning (dd's 3rd grade teacher told us at open house in the beginning of the year that the entire class was behind in their memorization of math facts and they all needed to catch up, as if it was the parents problem and responsibility)... if the entire class is behind, how is that NOT a school issue and the fault of the prior teachers and/or academic policies of the school.

This all leads me to the disney vacation saga... I feel like if the school did what you'd expect a school to do, that is, educate my child, then I can see the 'no taking them out for vacation'... but if the school is asking me to do weekend projects, summer projects, make flash cards, etc, etc, during "home time", the school is the one blurring the line between school and home, and I then have no problem taking the kids out for vacation. In other words, if school time was school time and home time was home time, i'd 100% agree to not take them out for personal stuff during school time. But the school is asking (telling) us to do school stuff during what should be 'personal time' ALL the time. again, weekend projects, summer projects, even regular homework to me is blurring that line.

My mom is always amazed at our homework, starting when the kids were in 4yo pre-K. She always says she doesn't remember doing any homework w/ my brothers and I (i'm 39yo), and I think it's because we didn't get any homework till we were old enough to do it independently. DD in 3rd grade is now that way with her homework, with just the occasional question. But in pre-K, K, sometimes 1st and sometimes 2nd, the instructions need to be read to the child if nothing else. Why the difference??? Are our kids today learning so much more than we were? My kids K teacher in our school just said to me the other day she can't believe she's having to teach her K class what a noun is. She also strongly feels these young children aren't ready to learn all this, and it's like trying to teach a 7 month old to walk. You can try and try and try, and they'll eventually get it, but no faster than if you just waited till they were ready and just did it then (does that make sense?)

Is it the 'no child left behind' thing? I personally don't know a single teacher who likes that whole thing, and I really don't know a teacher, public or private, who isn't frustrated w/ the education system. There are a handful of public school teachers who send their kids to our private school, and say they'd homeschool them before they'd send them to the public school. In contrast, one of our private school teachers sent her kids to public school and was happy with that, so of course there are opinions on both sides of the fence. I just feel like it's the entire nations school system that needs to be completely re-invented. It's not working. When parents have to make flash cards at home to do on weekends, and the schools are telling us it's critical the kids don't miss any unexcused days, something just feels so wrong. What are they doing from 8 to 3, 5 days a week? Then you always hear how far behind our schools really are compared to the rest of the world... all this is still not enough??? what the heck is going on?

I totally see why so many people homeschool. I feel like if i'm going to make flashcards and do all these other things they ask us to do, I might as well just teach them myself. And while I get the whole social aspect of school, it's just frustrating to feel like i'm also a part time teacher at home, then i'm being told if/when/how/why we may go on vacation. School is really running our lives way more than it seems it should be. And my kids aren't needing any extra help or anything - they're both A - B students, so it's not like they're just not getting the material. They do their homework and projects easy enough, it's just the amount they're assigned to do.

Am I crazy??? Someone please help me to understand this all.

 

[minkydog]

No, you are not crazy. I have felt the same way. In fact, when DS21 was in second grade this work load was so heavy at one point we took him out of school. We decided that if it was taking us 3-4hrs to do homework we might as well homeschool, so we did! My oldest is not academic, so school was always a struggle whether he did it there or here. But at least at home, he could learn in is own very eclectic style and in my schedule. Most years we did school year-round, taking 2 week breaks about every 8-9 weeks aand a 4 week break in the summer.

Let me make clear: I do not dislike public school. I work in a middle school. I wouldn't be there if I didn't believe in students & staff.

Simply put, my child functioned much better in a homeschool setting. When children #2 & #3 came along, it was just a smoothe transition for us. I was able to control the timing of our school so that we could speed up or slow down as needed. I controlled the homework and projects so that they meshed with our family life and vacation.

Homeschooling suited us well until we had some health crises ( DH got very sick,and almost died). At that point everyone went to public school. Youngest DS was already in school--he has special needs and the local public school has a great program for him. DD entered middle school and did just fine.She is in HS now, an A/B student, totally in charge of her homework. Oldest DS entered HS, floundered a bit and then decided that he'd just stick with homeschooling. He graduated from our homeschool 2 yrs ago and is now an actor & musician.

I know you didn't ask specifically about homeschooling, but I feel your distress. That same sense of distress is what lead us to make that decision and we have never regretted it.

 

[marlynnp]

You are crazy to expect that you shouldn't have to teach your children in addition to their time in school. Especially over the summer - does your school issue a summer packet of reading suggestions, writing and math activities?

The Kindergarten teacher is a little crazy to expect that her students are going to start class knowing what a noun is. I would expect that by the time she was finished with them they would know what words were nouns, verbs and adjectives - that's more of a first grade thing.

Homework should only take about 10 minutes per grade number (excluding reading).... so your 3rd grader should not have more than 30 minutes of homework a night and then should read a book for another 30minutes. Projects should be given with at least a full weeks time to complete.

 

[luvsmickeymouse]

To the OP, I agree 100% with what you have written.

 

[jdcthree]

Nope, you're not crazy!! I agree with much of what you said and those are some of the reasons I homeschool. As for taking your children out of school for vacation, you have to do what you feel is best for your family.

 

[OlderMan]

...but I say "Hurrah for the school teachers!!!!"

Remember, homework, at your children's grade levels, is more about reinforcing what's learned in class than new learning. And, despite having your children for 7 hours per day, the teacher can't be certain that everything is mastered by everyone in the class during that time.

My DD's, 9 and almost 11, go to a very rigorous school. They have homework Monday through Thursday nights and often have projects that take up time on the weekends or school breaks. These may be simple as reading for 30 minutes a day, or may be complicated as in working on their Science Fair projects or doing research to be shared with the class.

We know someone who had the same philosophy as the OP--"School has my kids for 7 hours monday through Friday, so why do they have to do homework nigths and weekends?"

She has come to realize that she has to be a partner with the teacher in her children's education.

What do you expect to happen when they're in Middle School, High School and College?

I would NEVER take my children out of school for a vacation.

 

[daisyduck123]

My take on this...

I'm a 1st grade teacher ..I pull DD13 (freshman), DS9 (4th grade), & myself out every year for WDW. We usually miss 6 school days, but in 2006, we each missed 11.

Hasn't hurt us so far...

DD13 (Freshman) has a 4.0 & is taking 4 Honors classes. She's scheduled to take 2 AP classes next year.
All this is on top of already skipping a grade.

DS9 always makes the A/B Honor roll.

When it starts to affect their grades...I'll stop pulling them out.

**I also feel that missing one week of school is not going to affect them in the long run...no one is NOT going to get into the college of their choice solely because they spent some school time in WDW.

 

[graygables]

There certainly is a pressure now to teach children things younger and younger. Kindergarten used to be a time of transition from a Mother's care to the social engineering of the public school. You could count on learning to read in the first grade, learning cursive in the 3rd, along with multiplication, and starting Algebra I in the 9th grade. When you have people asking about finding an academic pre-school for a 3 year old, you know we've crossed the line.

Children are no longer allowed to be children. How many people would tell you that their child is NOT gifted or is somehow "ordinary"? All of these wunder-kinder have to elbow and scratch their way to the top somehow, even if mummy and daddy have to do it for them, so the pressure begins at a very early age. That pressure carries into the school environment and teachers are often overwhelmed. NCLB has put enormous stress on the educational system and it has carried into the home. Junior MUST know all of this information by June and there is only so much time in a school day to cram it all in (betweeen PE, recess, music, art, lining up in the hall for lunch, teacher telling Jimmy to sit down for the umpteenth time and Sally to quit talking...), so a lot of it comes home. There is also an atrophy that takes place if the learning isn't sustained which is why work gets sent home for weekends/vacation breaks/Summer and why many districts are moving toward a year-round school. The current model is based on an agrarian calendar and is obsolete.

My homeschooled 4th grader started pre-algebra this year. She learned about the code of Hammurabi in the 2nd grade. Even their curricula reflect the current trends in public/private schools. The big difference is that we do school year round, so less time is wasted reviewing what some kids forgot 3 months ago while singing, "No more pencils, no more books..." Without all the distractions, my girls are able to finish their work in 5 subjects in about 2-3 hours, leaving the rest of the day for kid stuff, playing, reading, coloring, dancing, games. We take our vacations when we like and our school is portable (computer), so I can either give them time off, or they can work on it while we travel.

No, you aren't crazy, but yes, you are expected to help the school keep up the flow of knowledge that has become necessary in our technology saturated, NCLB environment.

 

[Cruz91]

...but here goes... Hang on - let me get my flame suit on... There, now I'm ready. First, no, I'm not a teacher - so this isn't a 'biased' viewpoint.

The fact of the matter is that teachers now have so much more to do than just teach the "3-R's" that there simply isn't enough time in the day. When we have children, it is our job to ensure their education - not the school district's. They are there to educate, but it is our job to ensure the education is happening. You noted the school district gets the kids for ~30 hours a week during the school year. Let's do the math... The average school has something on the order of 180 days a year. Did you get that? 180 out of 365 (366 this year). And even at that 180 days, less than 1/3 of the 'day' is spent in school (~7.5 of the 24 hours). Let's assume that the child sleeps 10 hours a night (which I suspect isn't the case), that still means that of the total year, the child spends 1350 hours at school, 3650 hours sleeping, and 3760 doing 'something else'.

The bottom line is reap what you sew. Those children whose educational experience is subsidized at home stand a far better chance than those whose are not.

 

[cel_disney]

While I dont object to parents pulling their children out of school for a family vacation (assuming of course that the parents will teach the students the lessons they will miss!) - I cannot get over the opinions of the OP (that many have agreed with!)!! Of course it is your job as a parent to teach your child!! Of course you are supposed to be re-inforcing what they learn during the day at home!! Of course they should have an hour or more of homework (also known as LEARNING!!) a night!!

I dont quite understand why as a parent - you dont think that its YOUR responsibility (vs. your school systems!) to make sure that your child grows up a capable, intelligent being that can contribute to society, has a work ethic, and doesnt have a sense of entitlement....

(I have nothing against homeschooling as my experience is that homeschoolers do everything possible to develop their children appropriately - this is more against those who believe that it is ONLY the schools responsibility to do those things!!)

~Celeste
ps. I am a former teacher and daughter of a nationally recognized teacher

 

[toesmom]

Although I do agree with the OP, my kids luckily attend a private school and do not get homework. My dd is in grade 4 and she does virtually everything at school, but I have heard stories about the local kids in the public schools.

By grade 5, the kids in my dd's school will be assigned homework, so I'll feel it next year.

But $$$ financially it doesn't make much sense to take the kids out of school for our holiday. March break here is 2 weeks for them in private school, so I have to be with them and take my holiday at that time anyhow.

If we go at slower time, then it's just more vacation time to take from work.

So we pay a bit more (plan better) and don't worry about time missed from school.

 

[EthansMom]

Yes, curriculum have gotten harder. Around here, preschool is what Kindergarten used to be and Kindergarten is akin to what I studied in First Grade. And with all of the No Child Left Untested stuff, there's actually less time spent educating our children (in CT, 3rd-5th grade testing takes up to 20 hours, not including test prep!).

But a child's education doesn't exist in a closed environment. We don't send our children off to school to "learn" and then turn off their brains when they come home.

A child's education begins at home. As far as practicing words, quiz your kid, if he/she knows the word don't continue to practice it. Practice only the words that he/she needs to work on. If you choose not to supplement your child's education at home, that's your business. But it doesn't make life any easier for your kid.

As long as your kids are doing well and can afford to miss the time from class, then go on vacation. Take their work with you and do a little bit each day.

 

[Mkrop]

Wow too. I think it is my job as a parent to educate my child along with the teacher.

I am 39 and went to a Catholic school as a child and I remember TONS of homework and my mom doing flashcards with me. What I dont remeber is all the projects, they do seem to be on the rise. And NO ONE I knew went to WDW or anywhere else for that matter during the school year. Going to WDW when I was a child was out of a lot people's financial ablility. I did not go until I was 17 and most people I knew went to the shore suring the summer not WDW.

My son currently goes to a Catholic school and we do get more homework than his public school counter parts (at least this is what I have heard on the sidelines at sports and stuff) but I actually prefer it. I want to know what he is learning, what he is and isnt understanding, and help him where necessary. I always find it amazing when people have no clue that their child failed math, well you might know if you were a part of the process.

We do pull him out for vacations but this is bc he is a straight student, dont know what I will do if he starts to struggle or if DS5 is not a strong student. But I do think family vacations are important.

Like I said I am all for homework, but I do love that the school will send home suggestions for increases physical activity for our children or charts they need to fill out on their activity and then assign increased homework so the kid cant get outside to play. To me that is a mixed message.

But yes I help with projects, he does them I just "assist" if necessary, we do flashcards for sight words and math facts, last year he had them for SS and science too.

 

[tchrrx]

I taught 7 years in public school and am now teaching private. I didn't give homework in public b/c it was kindergarten and I didn't feel the need to do so. I did occasionally send home info for the parent's to review, but it was mainly to keep them informed of what their child was being taught.

I do give homework now (3rd grade), but I try very hard to make certain that it is a review of things we've covered in class that the kids need additional help on.

One thing I will say about private school is that students are getting a lot more education simply b/c I am in the room actually teaching. In public school, it seems like there are so many teacher's meetings, training sessions, and more that disrupt the school day. Of the 180 days 'taught' in public, I know I probably lost at least a day every couple of weeks due to 'activities.' In my private school, I am in my classroom and physically teaching all 180 days. So far this school year I have lost only 3 hours of teaching time (in 5 1/2 months!) due to school pep assemblies. The rest of the time I am actively teaching my class.

The main problem I have with vacations during school is the added amount of work it puts on the teacher. I believe it's your right to make that decision as a parent. However, please give the teacher plenty of notice to get work together. Also, don't do it too close to the end of a grading period. That causes the teacher to have to frantically try to grade everything your child missed on top of getting her regular grades turned in and ready.

 

[MSSANDRA]

Here is my take on it: DS is my son. God gave him to me and it is my responcibility to raise him to the best of my ability. I choose to use schools to do so but it is still up to me to see that he learns what he needs to kow to become the adult I want him to be. I fully support the schools in anyway I can. DS is in public school. We choose public over home or private. Some teachers give more homework than I would but that is just the way it is. DS requires very little homework help at 15, but I put my time in and still am always willing to help with a projcet or test review etc.
Again, he is my child and his education does not end at 3:00. There is a world beyond school and those areas are too up me to cover. THese include religion, money, morals, and yes travel. We took DS out many years from K-8 for a week. This has ended now that he is high school and the most we can take is couple days but that too is a choice I, and now DS, make. SChool is an importain part of my son's education, but certaily not all of it.

 

[HappyLawyer]

It should not bug you at all, it is your decision and no one else!

 

[tinabheart]

I think the important thing to remember is that every child is unique, every family is unique, and every school is as well.

I have an ADD DS14. I'm also a single mom. If I had my choice, I'd homeschool him - but obviously I can't do that since I work full-time. He attends a private school.

Everyone needs to be majorly involved with their child's education which includes all the pieces. The administration, teachers, tutors, homework, etc. What works for your child is not going to work for mine and vice versa.

I have no problem taking my DS14 out of school for a day or two to add to a long weekend - but try to keep it to a minimum as he usually missed quite a few days anyway for health related issues.

(I'm sure some will flame here...) but I also do not see a probelm in his situation to take him out for a 'mental health' day. In his situation, he needs a 'break' sometimes. He is not overly involved other than one sport right now - but depending on medication issues, etc, sometimes he just needs a break. That has been a huge lifesaver.

To the OP - yes, we do have to be a part of the learning process - the statement of EVERYONE being behind on a certain thing like math facts -- yeah, seems like maybe the teacher needs to take a step back and spend some time on that, but rarely is an entire class struggling on the same issue.

I just think we can't judge each other's actions - you know your kid the best. Work 'with' your child's teacher - it's much more productive that way. Communication with my child's teachers are the key to his success!

 

[OU1247]

As a teacher and the Federal Laws of NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND it makes much harder on teachers. The reality is not all kids learn the same or at the same speed. So things are being taught earlier and earlier. I don't know about you but I took Algebra I in 9th grade...my son is currently taking it as a 7th grader! Sure he is bright but my gosh...

Also in the state of Oklahoma we get API scores. These are scores that tell you "how good" your doing as a school, teacher and such. We get points taken off our API for attendance. If your kid is not in school...we don't get credit for it.

So...I see both points. It would be much easier on a teachers budget to get to disney in an off peak time but...I can't take off.

Just be aware of testing schedules for older kids. It is important for them to be there.

 

[MouseLover]

What I am required to teach in 1st grade is very much like what I was taught in 3rd grade. I often feel the kids aren't ready to learn many of these things yet, but I am still required to teach them. Homework is necessary to reinforce what has been taught at school. I do not give homework every day, but I give it often. It usually should only take 20 minutes. Most of it should be checked over by an adult at home. The students who get no help at home are the ones who end up suffering.

If you think your child's teacher is not doing his/her job, I suggest you arrange to spend a few days in your child's classroom.

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

I am a teacher and I agree that you whatever works for your family is best...if you value education, and will ensure that your child is caught up when he or she returns, then by all means go!

However, I do understand how frustrating it is for teachers to try and teach when so much of the year is now taken up with testing! Here's an example of how ridiculous it is..we have benchmark tests at my school to see if students are improving...and these last benchmarks began on the third day back from winter break! i know many teachers barely had their students back into the swing of things, forget about remembering everything they would be tested on!

here's some info. for thought....if you have an opinion on homework (either way), check out "The Case Against Homework" for an interesting read. It's quite enlightening.