Teacher's advice on missing school

[Kbendig]

In my town vacations are ok, but they are unexcused and you are allowed I think 10 absences in the year before it's investigated. The handbook stated not to ask teachers for homework and it should all be done when they get back.

When my son was in K we went to Disney for a week, no work was expected but I brought a book with me and we worked on letters and sight words. I was actually told that I had "gone too far ahead" and the teacher had a problem with it. All I did was use a workbook and trace words. I was pretty shocked at the reaction. Then we came home to a hurricane and there was no school for 2 more weeks. All the kids struggled when they got back, so it was hard to tell how it affected my son.

This year we took a week and went on a cruise. He is in 1st grade. I told his teacher he'd be gone and said "I know you can't give homework out, but if you let me know the general topics I can try to keep him up to date." She told me that she prefers to give a homework packet and that it's easier that way for her if the kids come back knowing the material. In one week we had over 50 worksheets to do, he had to keep a daily journal, read nightly (which we would have done anyway) and when we returned she gave him the rest because she felt the packet was too much. He also had to make up 4 tests that he missed, not including the ones she said she wouldn't make up. That first week we luckily had a snow day because we still had 10 sheets to finish. We spent about an hour a day on the cruise doing homework, which I am not complaining about just saying how much work can be missed even in first grade. My husband and I said never again, it can only get worse and it's not worth it! Besides the amount of work we were stuck on the math because it is so much different now and I didn't understand what was expected.

On the other hand, the people we sat with at dinner had a middle schooler who had 1 project to do for the week and finished it in about 2 hours. So, every school is different. We actually still keep in touch, and the mom said when they got back and she saw there was no more work to make up she thought of my son and his hours of work.

I have no issues with taking kids out of school, and had we not had that much work I would do it again! We are thinking maybe we can do it the week of teachers convention one year because the 3 days of school he has are half days and because so many kids are out for the week they don't do as much work. Otherwise, it's summer for us from now on.

 

[Aliceacc]

For race weekend in February, I missed a Thurdsay, Friday, and a Monday. It seemed that in conversation that I had with each teacher, if I mentioned I was going to Disney to run, they let up on what they were giving me. However, then a few other teachers didn't care and loaded it on. I ended up getting too far ahead in a few classes with the bookwork that I had been giving. But when I returned, there was a good chunk of work waiting for me even from the teachers that have me too much. Didn't make any sense.
(((Btw- not using disney as an excuse to miss work, if the teacher asked I told them, and they told me to enjoy my vacation))

See, to me, it makes total sense. They gave you their best guess as to what they thought they would be able to accomplish. But they had no idea of exactly what questions would come up in your class period, or of what prior knowledge your classmates would come in with.

The reality is that real live kids haven't read the pacing guides. So the to-the-minute idea of what you're going to miss simply isn't possible if the teacher is going to really reach the kids where they're at-- and isn't that what you want from your teachers?

It's not a matter of "not caring"-- didn't you ASK for the work? It seems to me that "not caring" would be saying not to worry, the work wasn't important anyway.

Oh, and I hope that any of my kids who are absent are out because they're having fun; I hate to think of any of them sick or miserable. That doesn't mean we're not doing anything important in their absence, simply that I hope their absence is for a happy reason. The two are completely unrelated.

If you can miss an entire week of school and not miss anything of importance, then something is incredibly wrong. There's not a single period in the 180 days of classes when I don't expect my kids to leave knowing more than when they walked in. I start teaching on day 1, and end on the last day.

 

[SpringSprite]

When my son was in K we went to Disney for a week, no work was expected but I brought a book with me and we worked on letters and sight words. I was actually told that I had "gone too far ahead" and the teacher had a problem with it. All I did was use a workbook and trace words. I was pretty shocked at the reaction.

I would be shocked at that reaction too makes it seem like parents aren't allowed to teach their children things throughout the course of regular life. I got into multiplication and fractions with my pre-k 5 year old last night while watching Peep and the Big Wide World...

I always thought it was inconsistent that a state could have lax homeschooling requirements but very strict in-school regulations. I guess it all comes down to money!

 

[EMode]

As a retired first grade teacher I too am bothered by the attitude that "real" school doesn't begin until 6th grade. I spent 36 years teaching children to read and I considered that "kind of important".

I also disagree that it is easier to take an older child out of school. When a first grader misses school they are missing 6 hours of instruction everyday. In both reading and math, that is a big deal!


So please don't think that because it's first grade it's not important.

I definitely don't think 5th grade and under are less important than 6th and up, but the class instruction missed in lower grades can be "taught" by parents while on vacation. 1st grade math is not the same as 9th.

I have taken my kids out of school for WDW but havent since my oldest was in 5th grade (now in 10th). It is just too much work missed in those upper grades.

 

[mousefan73]

have to disagree here, yes I can explain my kids in 2nd and 3rd grade on how to do basic math they are learning, but the process in how they add, subtrate, multiply is totally different than how I learned it. their tests are graded not on the final result but on how they came to their conclusion. To be honest, I am a college educated person but did not 100% understand the way my 2nd/3rd grader learned subtration for numbers over 20. Had to do with taking and giving to make 10 but then take away again. multiple steps.. these multiple steps are part of grading.

And the way they build up on things alot can be missed in one week.

I would never take my kids out for a simple family vacation. I have over 4months a year I can plan this. There are very limited jobs that will not allow vacation in the summer months, plus fall, xmas, and spring breaks. Unless is was a wedding or once in alife time thing, no -go in our family.

 

[Magpie]

When my son was in K we went to Disney for a week, no work was expected but I brought a book with me and we worked on letters and sight words. I was actually told that I had "gone too far ahead" and the teacher had a problem with it. All I did was use a workbook and trace words. I was pretty shocked at the reaction.

I've occasionally run into this attitude as well, and I think there's no excuse for it. Children are meant to learn, not march in lock-step down a predetermined educational path. I taught both my children to read before they started kindergarten, and made no apologies for it. And as it turned out, it was a darn good thing I did, as my son is now one of those rare dyslexics who can actually read well (if a bit slower than you'd expect).

I'm also not impressed with massive amounts of worksheets in the elementary grades. Unless the child is legitimately in need of a large amount of practice and review (because of a learning difficulty of some sort, perhaps), it's usually nothing but mindless busy-work, guaranteed to convince the child that school is hell. And even if the child has a real need for extra practice, it still doesn't require massive numbers of worksheets. When my son was struggling with long division, we did just three problems a day, reviewing the basic concept each time. By the end of a week, he had it down cold and never forgot again.

I like this teacher's opinion on the topic of worksheets: http://www.learningspy.co.uk/learning/are-worksheets-a-waste-of-time/

If you can miss an entire week of school and not miss anything of importance, then something is incredibly wrong. There's not a single period in the 180 days of classes when I don't expect my kids to leave knowing more than when they walked in. I start teaching on day 1, and end on the last day.

You sound like a great teacher and I agree that the ideal should be that every day each student leaves knowing more than when they walked in. But in practice, especially in elementary school, I think it often doesn't work out like that.

In any kindergarten class, there will almost always be a child or two who already knows how to read, write, and do their sums. The teacher can't be expected to tailor the lesson to them, as there are 20-some other kids who need to learn these things. There will be days that child learns nothing new of an academic nature.

Here's a concrete example for you: When I pulled my children out to homeschool (my son at the end of Kindergarten due to his need for therapy, and my daughter a few weeks into 3rd grade due to a teacher conflict), I knew I couldn't teach them French. I was very concerned about this, because in our system French lessons start in Kindergarten and progress all the way to the end of high school. All my children knew were their numbers, months, days and colours.

When they reentered the school system in Grade 5, I expected them to be very far behind and was prepared to hire a French tutor to get them up to speed. Imagine my surprise, then, when my kids came home saying, "Mom! We're learning our numbers, months, days and colours!"

One child had missed five years of school. The other had missed two. And yet somehow, neither child had missed ANY French instruction. It was a little frightening. Especially when Grade 6 started and they began the year by again reviewing numbers, months, days and colours.

It eventually turned out that each year of Elementary French instruction is structured to accommodate the widest range of ability possible. "Real" French instruction doesn't start until high school, when students can be grouped according to ability (Academic, Basic, Remedial, Gifted, etc...).

Depending on the student, the school system, and the subject, it is entirely possible to miss a week or more of instruction and be no further behind than when you started. It doesn't mean there's something terribly wrong with the system, only that not every student fits into it exactly right. Also, sometimes the system's goals (ie. give everyone a basic French education) aren't perfectly in line with every student's learning needs ("I know the basics, and am ready to learn something new!"). Not every teacher is capable of perfectly differentiating instruction, and sometimes the system punishes teachers for differentiating too well. My son's Grade 7 math teacher actually got in trouble for teaching his gifted students "too much" and making the Grade 8 math teacher's job harder. (Edit: She actually told the class, "You're not supposed to know how to do this yet!" and then refused to let them use what they knew on their projects.)

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

As another teacher, I want to add: If your child is in high school, PLEASE DO ask for work ahead of time and make sure your child keeps up with it. Having to make up days and days of work at this level is virtually impossible. If my students know they have to read 6 chapters and do it while they are gone, they will be successful! Coming home to current work plus 6 additional chapters...UGH!

 

[Magpie]

have to disagree here, yes I can explain my kids in 2nd and 3rd grade on how to do basic math they are learning, but the process in how they add, subtrate, multiply is totally different than how I learned it. their tests are graded not on the final result but on how they came to their conclusion. To be honest, I am a college educated person but did not 100% understand the way my 2nd/3rd grader learned subtration for numbers over 20. Had to do with taking and giving to make 10 but then take away again. multiple steps.. these multiple steps are part of grading.

And the way they build up on things alot can be missed in one week.

I would never take my kids out for a simple family vacation. I have over 4months a year I can plan this. There are very limited jobs that will not allow vacation in the summer months, plus fall, xmas, and spring breaks. Unless is was a wedding or once in alife time thing, no -go in our family.

Please don't ever hesitate to teach your children a mathematical concept, just because the school is using a different process. The basic concept hasn't changed, and learning multiple approaches is actually very good for kids.

Number sense is the most important aspect of mathematical learning. And a good way to gain number sense is to have the freedom to play with numbers, instead of believing there's only one "right" way to get an answer, simply because that's how you're being graded.

We want to teach kids to be flexible and creative with numbers.

Fwiw, though, I'm not disagreeing with your choice to not pull your kids out in the middle of the year. Every family has different priorities, but I believe all of us ultimately end up in the same place... with our kids educated, and heading off to whatever their adult lives might entail. I've got a daughter going to university next year!

 

[LilyWDW]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;51252193]As another teacher, I want to add: If your child is in high school, PLEASE DO ask for work ahead of time and make sure your child keeps up with it. Having to make up days and days of work at this level is virtually impossible. If my students know they have to read 6 chapters and do it while they are gone, they will be successful! Coming home to current work plus 6 additional chapters...UGH![/QUOTE]

IF you have a school system that allows work to be given ahead of time.

I see you are in the Chicago suburbs. I grew up outside of Chicago myself and have many friends who stayed there and are raising families. Some of which are in districts that do not allow work to be given ahead of time at ANY level. It must be made up when they get back within a specific set of time.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

In any kindergarten class, there will almost always be a child or two who already knows how to read, write, and do their sums. The teacher can't be expected to tailor the lesson to them, as there are 20-some other kids who need to learn these things. There will be days that child learns nothing new of an academic nature.


Sorry to go a bit off topic, but here in the US teachers ARE expected to tailor lessons to kids who are ahead or behind the others. It is called differentiation and RTI (for the lower tiered kids). Trust me, having taught for 22 years, this is the most difficult part of my job. But I am absolutely expected to tailor lessons to each group of learners so they all meet (or exceed) the learning target for the day.

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

IF you have a school system that allows work to be given ahead of time.

I see you are in the Chicago suburbs. I grew up outside of Chicago myself and have many friends who stayed there and are raising families. Some of which are in districts that do not allow work to be given ahead of time at ANY level. It must be made up when they get back within a specific set of time.

My own kids' elementary school discourages giving work ahead of time as well, although some teachers will. In high school, most teachers have a firm schedule of what they will accomplish each day (syllabus), so I think it is probably easier. I also only teach 2 levels of English. I imagine for elementary teachers who teach all subjects, putting together work for a whole day as opposed to one period is harder.

 

[ucfknight]

In Florida the law is your child is not considered truant unless they miss 15 unexcused days in any 90 day period. The state leaves it up to the individual districts to determine what is considered unexcused. In my kids' district, vacations are considered excused absences as long as you let them know beforehand and your kid makes up all of the expected work. We have not had any problem taking off a week for a vacation and the teachers have always been great about giving us homework or assignments (vacation journal) beforehand.

 

[Magpie]

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;51252342]
Sorry to go a bit off topic, but here in the US teachers ARE expected to tailor lessons to kids who are ahead or behind the others. It is called differentiation and RTI (for the lower tiered kids). Trust me, having taught for 22 years, this is the most difficult part of my job. But I am absolutely expected to tailor lessons to each group of learners so they all meet (or exceed) the learning target for the day.[/QUOTE]

It's expected here, too, and, in fact, you can get Individualized Education Plans for your child that will put it all in writing and supposedly make it binding.

However, in practice, it often doesn't happen, especially when it comes to kids who are ahead of the material.

And, just to complicate matters, our congregated gifted program has a philosophy of "broader and deeper, not faster". When my daughter was in first grade (with an IEP, in a program for "profoundly gifted learners"), she didn't do a single page in her math workbook. When I asked the teacher about it, she said that none of the kids had, "Because they've all met or exceeded the benchmarks for the year, and I'm not allowed to teach them any more math."

"Differentiation" in the general classroom often doesn't mean giving the child academic work on her level. It means giving the child opportunities for leadership, asking her to tutor others, and finding ways to keep the child busy while the rest of the class learns. Sometimes it means giving her a sudoku to solve, instead of a math lesson.

I've seen the same thing happen on the bottom end of the learning spectrum, too, though less often.

 

[Angel Ariel]

"Differentiation" in the general classroom often doesn't mean giving the child academic work on her level. It means giving the child opportunities for leadership, asking her to tutor others, and finding ways to keep the child busy while the rest of the class learns. Sometimes it means giving her a sudoku to solve, instead of a math lesson.

I've seen the same thing happen on the bottom end of the learning spectrum, too, though less often.

The bolded may be what you have experienced, but that doesn't make it the same everywhere. I can only speak for myself and my experiences, but IME, differentiation is meant as exactly what the PP said - giving children academic work on their level - not finding busy work for higher level kids to do while the lower kids work. I would have been scored poorly on classroom observations had I just been handing gifted children busy work.

 

[ash-n-brensmom]

So glad, for many reasons, that we live in Canada. We have been taking our girls out for vacation every year for the past 7 years. This is not because of the lower crowds or pricing, but because we both work in an industry that restricts our vacation time. When in tourism....

That being said, our teachers have been so supportive of our vacations. They want our kids to enjoy themselves. They have from time to time given us vague instruction to keep them on track...read this chapter, study these math problems..etc. We have been very diligent working with the girls to keep them on track when we return. I believe it's a two way street, and there is a lot of respect going both ways. We have to work together to raise our kids and educate them.

I don't want to get into the whole common core, standardized testing debate...my kids have done some testing, and have skipped some due to our vacations. Again, no issues with the school board or teachers/admins.

My real problem with what I see going on with some of the school districts in the US, is the tie in between empty seats and funding. This should not be a deciding factor in funding. It should be based on enrollment. If a child is no longer enrolled in school, then the district should not get funding for that child. However, if that child is enrolled but not attending, then truancy courts should get involved and investigate the parent/caregiver for neglect. If my kid missed for vacation and illness and I was brought under investigation, then I would hope there would be a rational decision made based on the real facts...again, not based on funding, but on the health and well being of my children.

We are taking them out this Sept/Oct again...they will be missing 5 days of class. My oldest DD will be in HS this time, so it will be a real eye opener for us to see what effect it will have on her. If she feels it's too much when we get back, then we won't be going back until HS is over. We are trying to take time off during our March Break next year, but I don't know if we will even be able to get the time off....again, when in Tourism....

 

[Magpie]

The bolded may be what you have experienced, but that doesn't make it the same everywhere. I can only speak for myself and my experiences, but IME, differentiation is meant as exactly what the PP said - giving children academic work on their level - not finding busy work for higher level kids to do while the lower kids work. I would have been scored poorly on classroom observations had I just been handing gifted children busy work.

How does your system deal with kids who get too far ahead in elementary school? Ours just tries to prevent that from happening, with comments like, "What will happen if he finishes the Grade 8 math curriculum before Grade 8? We can't put a young child in high school!"

Some of the solutions have been hilarious - like the two weeks my kids spent on "Circus Arts" in their middle school gifted class. I'm not complaining!

And I know there are local private schools which take a different approach, even in some cases allowing young children to attend classes in high school and university.

What does your school do?

 

["Cinder" Ella's Mom]

How does your system deal with kids who get too far ahead in elementary school? Ours just tries to prevent that from happening, with comments like, "What will happen if he finishes the Grade 8 math curriculum before Grade 8? We can't put a young child in high school!"

Some of the solutions have been hilarious - like the two weeks my kids spent on "Circus Arts" in their middle school gifted class. I'm not complaining!

And I know there are local private schools which take a different approach, even in some cases allowing young children to attend classes in high school and university.

What does your school do?

Kids who excel in a particular subject are moved up (in my children's elementary school) to work with the next higher grade for that subject. I once had an 11 year old student who was bussed to my high school from his elementary school for English and Math only since he was so far ahead of his peers. There are gifted programs in place in the elementary schools in Math and Reading. My children were in these classes and for Reading, kids had to read books that fell within their own lexile range (which is basically differentiation) and they had a number of creative projects to choose from. It was not uncommon for a child or two from the grade below (an especially gifted child) to be in with the kids from a grade above.
Our high school students are granted both high school and college credit through a program that allows them to take advanced courses at the local Community College.

 

[fieldssu]

How does your system deal with kids who get too far ahead in elementary school? Ours just tries to prevent that from happening, with comments like, "What will happen if he finishes the Grade 8 math curriculum before Grade 8? We can't put a young child in high school!"

Some of the solutions have been hilarious - like the two weeks my kids spent on "Circus Arts" in their middle school gifted class. I'm not complaining!

And I know there are local private schools which take a different approach, even in some cases allowing young children to attend classes in high school and university.

What does your school do?

Our school district has a program for the 'exceptionally gifted'. Basically in elementary (K-5), the kids are grouped and given the opportunity to go deeper, broader, and more (foreign language). Out oldest wasn't identified until he was ready for middle school (6-8). At this level, he was able to skip 6th grade science (geology I think) and 6th grade social studies (geography). He also did 6th and 7th math in one year and started his foreign language a year early (which is still too late in my opinion). For 8th grade, he is doing four classes (three of which are honors level) at the high school. They bus him to the middle school, and then he takes four classes there before coming home. This has given him academically appropriate material, while keeping him with his age peers as much as possible. Even though he isn't big for his age, we haven't had any problems with him fitting in with the older kids.

In high school, he will take courses as he is ready for them, and might have some college courses he dual enrolls in. He will take his first AP class as a freshman.

 

[jenben8426]

I find it interesting that so many would not even think to pull a high school student out--thinking it would be too much for them. For reference, I am 30 now, so it was about 12 years ago, but when I was a sophomore and a senior I was part of a school business club. I made Nationals both years, and Nationals were during the school week. One year we went to Orlando and the other year we went to California. We participated in Nationals, but when we weren't doing our events we visited Sea World, Disneyland (world), and Universal Studios. We missed at least 4 days of school. There wasn't even a bat of the eye from any administrators or teachers. I find it interesting that these absences were of course excused because it was a school event, but that if I would have done the same thing with my family it would have been unexcused.

I remember that I was a bit behind when I got back, but I put in some hours after school and worked hard to make sure I was caught up. I still graduated with honors as well, so it didn't affect me all that much. Now, I probably would be a little nervous if my child wasn't motivated or had a really hard time in school, and I would probably think twice about pulling them, but it definitely can be done.

I'm glad that we now homeschool so we don't have to worry about this sort of thing!

 

[Angel Ariel]

How does your system deal with kids who get too far ahead in elementary school? Ours just tries to prevent that from happening, with comments like, "What will happen if he finishes the Grade 8 math curriculum before Grade 8? We can't put a young child in high school!"

I can't speak for all districts, but in my personal experience (as a student), I was put into higher classes.

When I was going into 9th grade, I moved from NY to PA. In NY I had had French classes since 7th grade. In PA, the district I moved to didn't start french until 9th grade. I met with the 9th grade french teacher once, demonstrated my skill level to her, which clearly exceeded where her class was).

In PA, 9th grade was junior high school, and HS started in 10th grade and was in an entirely different building. Since I tested above the 9th grade french level, I went to the HS for french every day. I got on the bus when the high schoolers were picked up in the morning, went to 1st period french class, and then met a small bus that the district sent for me (and a few other kids in a similar situation to mine, but different classes) that took me back to my Junior High for the rest of the day. In 10th grade, I was then in the 11th grade french class and in 11th grade I was taking the AP level French class (highest my school had). This left an elective spot open for me my senior year to take Music Theory instead of a language like the rest of the seniors were.

A HS friend of mine in the same district was taking college computer programming courses in HS, and I believe he also received credit for them in his HS record as well.

When we were little, in NY, my brother was well ahead of his peers when he was in elementary school, in all levels, so they had him skip up to the next grade level partway through the year.

I have never personally experienced anyone attempting to stop a child (be it me, anyone I knew, or a student of mine) from progressing.

ETA: What I posted is above and beyond the "gifted" programs that the other PPs have mentioned. In elementary schools there are gifted programs where children will get pulled out for additional instruction. Starting in middle school there were 3 levels of classes - remedial, regular classes, and honors classes. A child could be in honors english, yet remedial math if they needed to be. Those 3 levels continued through HS, and HS added a 4th level - remedial, "college prep", honors, and Advanced Placement Courses (AP). AP courses were essentially college level courses...take the AP test at the end of the year, earn a 3 or higher (out of 5), and you got college credit for the class you took in HS. I didn't have to take any history classes in college b/c I earned all the credits with my AP US History test score.