Teacher Participation......

[JackJack08]

Frankly Op, it's really none of your business why teachers didn't attend this particular function.
They have lives just like everyone else, they should not have to account for how they spend their free time.

Not necessary.

 

[JackJack08]

all of them. First, I will say that I've taught in 9 schools over the past 27 years...and I've never taught at a school where the teachers don't attend PTA events. That seems odd to me.

I haven't read what the other posters said, but here's my take on this:

Yes, I do attend events. But, do I attend ALL events? No way. That would be a minimum of 6 nights a month at elementary school. When I was teaching in Middle School it would have been that many nights...plus every weekend day and night for the variety of sports.

When I first started teaching I also attended dance recitals, sporting events, church plays, and went to student's homes for dinners and religious celebrations. All of that ended nearly 20 years ago. Every year we have to attend mandatory sexual-preditor classes. One thing they tell everyone who works in schools to watch for are adults who attempt to establish a personal relationship with students. When I started teaching it was common to give a kid who missed the bus a ride home...or buy shoes for the kid whose family couldn't afford a new pair...or support a student's outside interest. Doing those things now will get you hotlined...and on a 7 year watch list as a suspected child abuser. I will have to admit that, given the choice of attending an educational event or a social one, I'll likely choose the former just to protect myself.

In addition, I now have children of my own. We have church and sporting activities of our own. I also have the social and educational events at their schools that I need to attend. It's fairly common for me to have three events scheduled on the same night.

I'm not making excuses. I will say that it's fairly common for the PTO/A to plan things without teacher input...and when teachers look at the plan they think, "Oh, my!" Some thoughts...do you have your planning sessions at times when teachers can attend? For the past decade I've worked in schools where the PTO met during the school day...effectively cutting teachers out of the group. If you involve teachers, ask for their input, and they still don't participate, you might want to put together a survey to find out why...then let them know that you'd really love for them to be a part of your activities.

Thanks for your post. You sound like a great, very involved teacher! That is something to keep in mind......the asking for input. We have in the past, and most teachers aren't willing to give too much. And that's o.k. They are crunched for time as it is, at least in my opinion......so we take care of all the planning, we would just like them to come out once and a while and enjoy some non-teaching time with their students.

We do meet in the evenings, with free babysitting offered.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I am a parent and not a teacher. I would not expect them to come and I wouldn't be insulted if they didn't. Their workday is over. They want to go home to their families. Even if their kids are invited it is still a "work" event. Maybe they do stuff with their own kid's schools. Maybe they have their own traditions or maybe they simply do not like the event. Sometimes what seems fun to one person is definetly not to another person.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Not necessary.

I don't think that person was being nasty. I think they are right. The teachers have other things to do on their off time and shouldn't have to give their itinerary to anyone. While we love our children being a teacher is their job. They do not want to spend every minute with them even if they do enjoy them.

 

[JackJack08]

I'm not the poster you quoted, but I don't view the teachers as paid help, but I would LOVE to view them as partners to making the school a better place to be and work. Unfortunately, it is pretty much a one-sided partnership. If I had an organization whose function was to make my workplace all-around better, I believe I would participate and support it to the level of my ability - not all the time (like when my own kids have functions) but some of the time (like when an event falls at a time when we don't have other family functions).

I had an in-depth talk with the President of our PTO who also is a school teacher last night. I really thought he'd take more of the 'I need time with my family' approach. But he, instead, was totally on board with agreeing that teachers should participate as much as they can or at least a little bit. I asked him how his own school would be (better, worse) if the PTO didn't exist at all - and he said that it would DEFINITELY be a worse place to be and work. That's why we need the support - to be able to continue to make it a better place.

We bend over backwards to show teachers that they ARE appreciated and not just paid employees by having special celebrations for them, funding things when one of them is ill, and helping them make their classroom better and better able to do their job without their own out-of-pocket expense. So personally I think your post is harsh to someone who volunteers a lot of time and effort to make teachers and their schools feel and be more special.

Exactly. We do buy library books and have a new bench for the "Peace Garden" ordered as we speak......the issue of them being overpaid, is something that a PP brought up. Not me. That is another whole discussion, obviously, that I am not interested in participating in.

We are happy to hand out the money for classroom supplies.....and any other request we get from our teachers. And do it without a whole lot of thought....because our students need these items. I want my kids school years to be remembered fondly....and if I can make it happen, I will. Thanks for the great post!

 

[JackJack08]

I don't think that person was being nasty. I think they are right. The teachers have other things to do on their off time and shouldn't have to give their itinerary to anyone. While we love our children being a teacher is their job. They do not want to spend every minute with them even if they do enjoy them.

I did not ask for their itinerary. Can't remember saying that.....hmmmm......

 

[JackJack08]

I am a parent and not a teacher. I would not expect them to come and I wouldn't be insulted if they didn't. Their workday is over. They want to go home to their families. Even if their kids are invited it is still a "work" event. Maybe they do stuff with their own kid's schools. Maybe they have their own traditions or maybe they simply do not like the event. Sometimes what seems fun to one person is definetly not to another person.

Just curious, about how much you get involved in your kids school?

I think most posters here, don't. Perhaps if they did, you could see where I'm coming from.

 

[kirstenb1]

I'm chairman of our PTA middle school dance committee. We love when teachers volunteer their time to help chaperone, but frankly, I try very hard to not ask them.

Our dances are from 7-9 Friday nights. They've already put in a full week with our kids. The last thing I want to do is ask them to stay late. Our school is rural. Most teachers live in town, and commute 30 miles each way. It makes little sense for them to go home, then return. So if I ask them to chaperone, I'm really asking them to stay there from 7:30 am, to 9 pm that night.

Anyway, once in a while, I'll run short on parent volunteers, and then I'll send out an SOS to the teachers. They've been very kind in those instances.

 

[pacrosby]

If you take a step back and look at the tone of your post, you might have a real insight as to why the teachers at your school don't participate.

If I thought the parents at my school view me as their paid help...overpaid help...I would be hesitant to be involved with them, too. If you begrudge your child and the other children the money you give for classroom use, then, as an organization, don't give it. Buy a bench or playground equipment or library books. Don't view it as a personal gift to teacher that causes them to be indebted to your organization.

Personally I don't see anything 'offensive' about the tone of any of the OP's posts. Quite the opposite actually (unless she was feeling alittle offended herself by some reply). It really is in how YOU choose to read someone's words.

OP....I gotta hand it to you. You are really hanging in here on this one. FWIW....many here understand exactly where you are coming from and completely agree. No you didn't ask for an itinerary, you didn't say you wanted ALL of them to come to EVERY event, you didn't say teacher's were overpaid, you didn't say you didn't care that they had other obligations etc. etc. etc. But it doesn't really matter what you say. Those who've decided they don't like what you are saying and pick apart your words aren't 'listening' anyway. Been there, done that

(edited to add: Keep in mind that just because you aren't getting alot of public support on this thread doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's a known DIS fact that those who 'disagree' are generally the ones who are the most vocal and seem to have the greatest need to be heard )

 

[tiggger1]

not sure if it the same everywhere but here is depends on the teacher's union. I teachers cant even come to the walk thru if they dont get paid. The only after school events that the regular teachers they are required and allowed to go are the open house and the parent teacher conferences. There were a few who came to the halloween dance but they had to get paid to be there...

 

[spacemountainmom]

I really don't think this is worth getting nasty and fighting over.

My kids' grade school had a big carnival as their fundraiser each year. When my kids were younger it was held in March or April and was pretty well attended by teachers. Several years back, the timing was changed so it is held the last Friday night of the school year. The number of teachers who show up dropped significantly. I was saddened that there was less teacher participation, but I understand by that time they are also ready to be done with school and very likely are busy with their own families. I don't know why the date was changed, but I think it really has changed the success of the event on all levels.

My kids' 2nd grade teacher was one of those very heavily involved teachers who went waaaaaaaaaay beyond the call of duty. She got married and had a baby in between my two kids. It was obvious that she did not have the same time to give to the kids outside of the school day. I am not complaining - she was the best teacher my kids ever had. I am saying that I understand that her life changed and she could no longer attend each and every school function.

I always found myself more annoyed at the parents who never participated. It was many years that it was the same bunch of us parents who were volunteering for everything. There was a large group who were the core of the volunteer corps and many of us had youngest kids the same age. Our kids are now all in 6th grade and in middle school. I wonder if the school is having difficulties this year finding volunteers. My kids and I will go back and work the carnival this spring because we enjoyed it so much over the years. I hope others will do the same.

I was actually impressed to see almost the entire staff at my ds's first middle school party. I don't know if it was required, but I thought it was cool for the kids to see their teachers in a less formal setting.

It is nice when teachers partcipate in extra curricular events, however, I completely understand if they don't have the time or inclination to do so.

 

[mdsoccermom]

Just curious, about how much you get involved in your kids school?

I think most posters here, don't. Perhaps if they did, you could see where I'm coming from.

I volunteer at my kids' schools and still don't see where you're coming from. I volunteer at my leisure, for the activity of my choice, when it fits into my schedule. It would never occur to me that a teacher would need to be present just for appearances sake. The middle school dances are on Friday nights. Why should a teacher to take time out from their family Friday activities to stand around a dance.

I have several friends who are teachers who, while enjoying their students and loving their jobs, don't really like to spend their free time at their schools' social events nor are they required to. They have multiple kids of their own with very full schedules and that is their focus outside of work. If it's a choice between seeing a school play or their child's basketball game, or a dance or relaxing on the one free night they may have, what do you think is going to win out? I realize we would all love to believe teachers should spend every free moment basking in our own kids, but that's not reality.

 

[mamaLori05]

Just curious, about how much you get involved in your kids school?

I think most posters here, don't. Perhaps if they did, you could see where I'm coming from.

I am one of the posters diagreeing with you and I am VERY involved in my child's school. I too am on the PTO and go to every meeting, am the PTO laisson for the classroom, help out at most of the functions held, classroom mom, volunteer weekly in the copy room, go on every field trip, help in the library and computer lab, basically am there whenever they need any help. I am in the school several days a week, a lot of the kids even know me by name, so yes, I am VERY involved in my child's school. I appreciate everything the teachers do for our children, and don't just see the PTO as "helping the teachers out". I see it as a way to make our children's education better, which is why I am so involved in our school. Yes, the teachers love the things the PTO get for them to use with the children, but it's really all about the children and giving them the best education we can.

In our school, the dances and other events like it are meant to get families together. Let other parents meet other parents and have a good time with their children. Help get them involved in their child's life, because unfortunatley there are a lot of parents that can't be as involved as us PTO moms are due to work and other duties. It lets the parents see where their children spend a majority of the day and who they hang out with. We do have many teachers that attend our events, but I still would never EXPECT them to be there. They are with my kids enough and help them more than enough. Why can't the school dance be just about families.

 

[okeydokey]

Just curious, about how much you get involved in your kids school?

I think most posters here, don't. Perhaps if they did, you could see where I'm coming from.

I'm a regular volunteer at my kids schools and see how hard teachers work. I believe their free time is theirs and wouldn't expect them to come back to school for forced fun times even twice a year. If they want to great, but I would never expect it, nor complain if they don't.

 

[disykat]

I'm currently both a teacher and a parent and am another one disagreeing with you.

I've been PTA president, ran carnivals, book fairs, etc. I've gone to state convention a few times. I don't think I can be called uninvolved. Teachers have "saved our bacon" many times when we were in need of volunteers. We have quite a bit of teacher participation because we ask for it, involve them in the planning, etc. Our PTAs that have the most teacher involvement have their meetings after school at a time it would be convenient for them to come - NOT on another evening.

 

[hentob]

However, the only three teachers that attended were there as parents and NOT teachers.

That was strange of them to come in and announce that to you.

"Hello. We are here as parents. NOT as teachers."

 

[mdsoccermom]

That was strange of them to come in and announce that to you.

"Hello. We are here as parents. NOT as teachers."

And what exactly where they expected to do there had they attended as a teacher and not as a parent? Was there a difference in roles?

 

[Fabooliss]

Our teachers don't attend anything they don't get paid for either. I never saw any teachers at any of my DD's elementary things and only see one teacher at my sons. In middle school a couple would come to the musical. At the High school level even with getting free tickets to the musical and play you can count on 1 hand the teachers in attendance. And they are the same 3-4 who always come.

I know they can't go to everything but I would think in all the years at least one teacher from a big school could show up at a dance or a concert.

Do you go to things for work that you don't get paid for?

 

[declansdad]

I am Vice Pres of our PTO and we have a rather large school (K - 4th and at least 6 classes per grade level) and get very little to NO participation in almost all of our events. The Pricipal and Vice Principal DO participate and we have tried to work with them to increase participation. Keep in mind teachers reading this - I do not expect a lot at all - not even close to every event, but 1 - 2 per year is not asking a lot. We bust our butts to do fundraising and planning and give a LOT of our budget back to the classrooms. The teachers can (and almost all do) submit requests for teacher grants which are basically classroom supplies that are not covered by the district (supply cabinets, new recording devices, addiitonal headphones for existing systems, carpets with the letters on them, etc) and we approve and pay for almost every request that comes our way. In return, I do expect some participation. But do not recieve it in almost all cases.

I have found that it is Principal 'encouragement' that makes or breaks it here. Our principal, while good, is not one who will take a posiition or 'shake things up' by strongly encouraging more participation. Unfortunately, we might resort to stopping to do the stuff we do for the teachers (well, we won't stop - but might significantly cut down).

The Pres of our PTO is a 1st grade teacher at a nearby school (not the same district) and it makes me so sad as he always talks about how the TEACHERS at his school take the lead on planning/organizing many of the events they hold. And we can't even get them to show up for an hour.

I realize that they have families of their own and like I said I don't expect more than a couple of hours once or twice a YEAR. And, everyone I know does not get paid to do many of the 'extra' activities for their own jobs. Any salaried person who has to go to a company event is not paid for that time. So it is the same in every profession that way.

What saddens me most is that our organization truly does make the school a better place to attend or work with community type events and the extras (teacher appreciation day, taking care of the staff/janitorial with thank you's, bus drivers) PLUS just some FUN stuff (sledding parties, pizza parties). And I think the teachers would be working in an environment that isn't as good overall if we didn't exist. But to get them to see that I think we would actually have to fold, and that wouldn't be fair to our kids - so we will continue on....

Just what would you be fundraising for if not to help out the school/teachers?

Your attitude seems to be that teachers should be greatful to you; afterall, they simply teach your kids and look after them for 5 days a week.

 

[declansdad]

I guess I am just confused, at why asking 4-5 teachers to show up at an after school function and have some fun, with or without their own children is too much to ask. The reason we didn't ask them to be in charge of anything, is so they could enjoy themselves. Perhaps, just have a little "fun" with their students and their families without such a structured environment, such as in the classroom.

Would you show up if your kids were not there?