teacher myths

[MiniGirl]

One week is the average vacation time of a beginning employee for most Americans. Now granted, Minnesota seems to be the land of honey , so maybe things are different there.

2 weeks after 2 years-many Americans cap at 2 weeks a year

3 weeks after 10(DH got this at only one company)

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, MiMi is correct. The average full time American worker gets 8.1 paid vacation after 1 year of service. This is averaged among employees that do get a paid vacation. A full 25% get no paid vacation at all. After 25 years of service, the average American worker gets 15.7 paid vacation days a year.

Then there was this little tidbit to from Wise Geek....

http://www.wisegeek.com/which-countries-offer-the-most-paid-vacation.htm

Certain countries do not mandate any type of paid vacation as part of full time worker benefits. This is true in the US where approximately 25% of full time workers earn absolutely no paid vacation. Many companies do offer vacation time, but amount, way it is used, and for what purpose is up to the individual company to decide. On average, workers in the US have about 10-15 days vacation time per year, but this average does take into account those people who don’t have any time at all.

 

[Scurvy]

Just curious, where are the lots of people who are getting 2 months paid vacation and what do they do???? I have never heard of this, in this country and while I've always said "never say never" I can't believe there are "lots" of people out there with 2 months paid time off.

They are the same type of people HsvTeacher mentioned, government/military contractors, engineers for the most part. Also some people in software development and some in other private industry. I don't really know much about vacation time in my current city - my friends don't talk about the specifics of their benefits all that much, though I know a few people here who get significant amounts of vacation time. Most of the ones I know specifics about are in Arizona, Washington DC and Virginia. Of course, many of the people I know who get a month or more of vacation time rarely actually use it - they are too focused on work or racking up overtime (when it's approved), and on getting that next raise and promotion. Which isn't an issue for teachers, since they aren't eligible for performance based raises or promotions and never get overtime.

I also know some people who only get a few days of vacation and/or sick days a year, but for the most part they aren't in professional jobs.

I know that getting several weeks of paid vacation in this country is not the norm. My point in mentioning it was that people always fixate on the "time off" that teachers get, or they carry on that teachers are only paid for 9 months. But many professions get time off and are still paid for 12 months. Unless you are including the 12 months employees' vacation time (and holidays) when you are comparing them to a person who "works 9 months and gets holidays off" it isn't really a good comparison. Teachers do have more time off than many jobs; their schedule isn't the norm. Yes, there are also some people who don't get much vacation time and never get holidays off. But for those with professional jobs (at least those I have known), that doesn't seem to be the norm, either.

 

[TinklednPants]

Let me guess, a curriculum supervisor????

Nope. 6th grade Math

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Yes, it just seems like people making the statements like "teachers make X amount of money for only working 9 months is pretty darn good money and it equals a salary of a person making X amount of money for 12 months" doesn't really understand that's not how it works. Where do they think the money comes from for those 2 or 3 months teachers are not working? From a magical tree in the back yard? I didn't become a teacher for money, I wanted the convenience of being on a similar schedule to my own 2 children.

For example this statement on another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkermommy


Teachers may get paid for 10 months, but they have to stretch that salary out for an extra 2 months. They have to figure out how to make that 40,000 dollars last for an extra 2 months out of the year, not just the 10 months they are working. A person who works for 12 months gets paid the entire twelve months, they don't have to figure out how to stretch their salary, so in reality a teacher is really making less. If I use Tinkermommy's math concept, a person making 55K over a period of 260 days is making 211.53 per day. If a person making 40K over a period of 260 days is making 153.84 per day. That's actually 57.69 less per day.

Here's the way I figure it based on a $55,000 salary. Employee A is a teacher. They get paid for 190 days because that's what their contract says. They make $289.47 per day. Employee B works 261 days per year because they get paid vacation, sick, and leave time. They make $210.73 per day. Obviously the teacher is making more money than that full-time, year-round employee.

Obviously we can debate this til the cows come home. I'm simply stating that you were aware of these conditions when you took the job. I knew plenty of teachers when I went to school who took part-time jobs either on weekends or summers to make ends meet. Nothing stopping any teacher from doing the same. Same as the rest of us; if we couldn't make ends meet, we'd find a new job or get a part-time job. Also, at least in my town, you can elect to have your salary paid over 10 months or 12 months, so there's no need to stretch it during the summer months.

I also think part of the problem could very well be political. I know in my area it's all about who you know, who you're connected to and who you show allegiance to. Come election time you are expected to put out a campaign sign for certain candidates or your job can be in jeopardy. They tend to have long memories about such things. Personally, it disgusts me. For example, the worst teacher I ever had (refused to offer extra help, playing cards for money with students during class) is now the head of the teachers union. Good teachers should be paid well. Poor teachers should get kicked to the curb. You coast and don't show any effort, you don't get a raise. Simply as that, same as in the private sector. I want to see my taxes going to pay the teachers that deserve it, not the ones who know someone or are protected because they've been a teacher for many years. Some are better because of their years of service, others are comfortable in the knowledge they are protected.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I also think part of the problem could very well be political. I know in my area it's all about who you know, who you're connected to and who you show allegiance to. Come election time you are expected to put out a campaign sign for certain candidates or your job can be in jeopardy. They tend to have long memories about such things. Personally, it disgusts me. For example, the worst teacher I ever had (refused to offer extra help, playing cards for money with students during class) is now the head of the teachers union. Good teachers should be paid well. Poor teachers should get kicked to the curb. You coast and don't show any effort, you don't get a raise. Simply as that, same as in the private sector. I want to see my taxes going to pay the teachers that deserve it, not the ones who know someone or are protected because they've been a teacher for many years. Some are better because of their years of service, others are comfortable in the knowledge they are protected.

This is what causes such a bitter rift between the Teachers' Union and the taxpayer in my area, too.

One of the local schools had a strike about 2 or 3 years ago. My best friend's brother worked for that school district. It got so bad that a large group of the teachers risked alienation to speak out against the way their OWN Union was handling the situation. They were basically pawns being used by the State Union in order to push for a change in Harrisburg. This particular teacher used to tell us he dreaded opening up his email each day because of, what he called, the "daily dose of propaganda." They were urged to write letters to the newspaper stating certain things (regardless of whether you believed them, or not), and to campaign for certain school board members. It was very ugly.

I really hope that Pennsylvania becomes a "no-strike" State. So many other States have that now. The Union can still negotiate without using such strong arm tactics that only create further animosity.

 

[golfgal]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, MiMi is correct. The average full time American worker gets 8.1 paid vacation after 1 year of service. This is averaged among employees that do get a paid vacation. A full 25% get no paid vacation at all. After 25 years of service, the average American worker gets 15.7 paid vacation days a year.

Then there was this little tidbit to from Wise Geek....

http://www.wisegeek.com/which-countries-offer-the-most-paid-vacation.htm

Certain countries do not mandate any type of paid vacation as part of full time worker benefits. This is true in the US where approximately 25% of full time workers earn absolutely no paid vacation. Many companies do offer vacation time, but amount, way it is used, and for what purpose is up to the individual company to decide. On average, workers in the US have about 10-15 days vacation time per year, but this average does take into account those people who don’t have any time at all.

How about looking up stats for jobs that require a college degree. Mixed into these stats are people that work full time for retail, fast food, etc. too and with lower paying jobs you don't get the same perks. Technically with my job none of my vacation time is paid but I can also take as many days off as I want, which is the trade off.

 

[bunny]

My DH and I know several people, mostly civil servants and government/military contractors, who get weeks upon weeks of paid vacations. (And yes, some of them get eight weeks or more.) Since Scurvy lives in the same city I do, I'm sure she knows people who also work at the same places.

That burns me up, but I shouldn't be shocked. No wonder our taxes are so high. Why should government workers get 3x as much vacation as the average person?

 

[DawnM]

Agreed.....and statistics show that only 16% of American adults even have a college degree and only 9% have above a college degree.

So, comparing apples to apples makes more sense to me than "average America....."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm

Dawn

How about looking up stats for jobs that require a college degree. Mixed into these stats are people that work full time for retail, fast food, etc. too and with lower paying jobs you don't get the same perks. Technically with my job none of my vacation time is paid but I can also take as many days off as I want, which is the trade off.

 

[java]

I also know some people who only get a few days of vacation and/or sick days a year, but for the most part they aren't in professional jobs.

Yes, there are also some people who don't get much vacation time and never get holidays off. But for those with professional jobs (at least those I have known), that doesn't seem to be the norm, either.

Here(east coast) there are many professional positions that don't get more than the minimum 2 weeks of vacation time.

Somehow all the people who carry on about the "9 month job" ignore that most 12 month jobs don't actually work that whole time, either. Of course teachers do get those 3 personal days, so maybe that counts as their paid vacation.

Um what people are you talking about? I saw your Software development comment and that really couldn't be more opposite from my experience I know Software developers and they work non-stop.

 

[okeydokey]

That burns me up, but I shouldn't be shocked. No wonder our taxes are so high. Why should government workers get 3x as much vacation as the average person?

Well, state workers where I live don't get weeks and weeks, but 3 weeks or so isn't unusual. We trade off salaries that are 30%- 50% below private sector for some extra benefits and the ability to do work that we find meaningful.

 

[daughtersrus]

Here(east coast) there are many professional positions that don't get more than the minimum 2 weeks of vacation time.



Um what people are you talking about? I saw your Software development comment and that really couldn't be more opposite from my experience I know Software developers and they work non-stop.

A very good friend of ours writes software for a major news organization. His salary is over $100,000/year, he gets 6 weeks vacation plus 10 sick days and 5 personal days. He can choose to work pretty much anywhere as long as he has a high speed internet connection.

 

[daughtersrus]

Originally Posted by MM27 View Post
And as of this year we are paying a percentage of our salary towards healthcare, so that line doesn't work anymore.

I think the point was most employees pay toward the medical. Teachers in NJ were the last holdout. Free medical until this year -- unheard of anywhere else and all the teachers are complaining about it when everyone else has been doing it for years.

You need to remember that the cost of health care is negotiated into the contract. So teachers may not have been paying for it directly but they were still paying for it. There are other professions that don't pay for health care. My DH is an example. He is a tech at a car dealership. His employer pays 100% of the cost of the insurance but that was a point that was negotiated into their contract.

 

[Scurvy]

Um what people are you talking about? I saw your Software development comment and that really couldn't be more opposite from my experience I know Software developers and they work non-stop.

You want names? Somehow I don't think they'd want me sharing that. Suffice it to say they work on software for companies that design things for the government. They may not be typical. I don't know many software developers. The ones I do know just have good jobs, I guess.

Oh, I forgot I do know a guy who does software for Disney. He is on call all the time and doesn't get as much vacation as the other guys (I don't think, anyway). So obviously there's quite a bit of variation in that sort of job.

 

[disfan07]

Fairfax County, VA is one county that DOES NOT pay their teachers well enough.

Even with a masters you can't get to $90,000. After about 27 years I think it is you can get to $88,000. Even with a PhD you cant get to a 6 figure salary. And at that point, if you have your PhD, you are most likely NOT going to be teaching in a public school. This is in the county that has the highest median income in the country and the COL to match.
Yes, in some places teachers get paid a living wage and they can make excellent salaries early on (Long Island is one example....my cousin is desperately trying to get a job in Long Island...she works in Brooklyn right now). But in many places, teachers DO NOT make a living wage.

.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

http://www.njteachersalary.com/s/HUDSON/BAYONNE/Bayonne-H.S./

Pay for 190 days a year, plus free medical up until last year.

 

[CdnCarrie]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, MiMi is correct. The average full time American worker gets 8.1 paid vacation after 1 year of service. This is averaged among employees that do get a paid vacation. A full 25% get no paid vacation at all. After 25 years of service, the average American worker gets 15.7 paid vacation days a year.

Then there was this little tidbit to from Wise Geek....

http://www.wisegeek.com/which-countries-offer-the-most-paid-vacation.htm

Certain countries do not mandate any type of paid vacation as part of full time worker benefits. This is true in the US where approximately 25% of full time workers earn absolutely no paid vacation. Many companies do offer vacation time, but amount, way it is used, and for what purpose is up to the individual company to decide. On average, workers in the US have about 10-15 days vacation time per year, but this average does take into account those people who don’t have any time at all.

That's it? Really? That's awful!

We get much more than that up in Canada. Minimum by labour law is 2 weeks after a year, 3 after 5 years. Most unionized people can easily be getting 6 weeks after 20 years of service.

I get 4 weeks plus a Christmas break (paid) after only 8 years of service.

 

[Kath2003]

UK minimum by law is 20 days + 8 national holidays = 28 days
Teachers get 58 days + 8 national holidays = 66 days

We have higher taxes, but our medical cover is included in that.

 

[HsvTeacher]

http://www.njteachersalary.com/s/HUDSON/BAYONNE/Bayonne-H.S./

Pay for 190 days a year, plus free medical up until last year.

I think I need to move to New Jersey, because I'm not making anywhere near that amount of money. Oh, and we have to pay for medical insurance out of pocket, and our premiums are going up again in October.

Edited to add: In my system, our Bachelor's Degree pay tops out at $54,406.93 for teachers with 25+ years experience. Master's Degree pay tops out at $61,428.84 for teachers with 25+ years experience. That's a far cry from New Jersey's six-figure salaries.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I think I need to move to New Jersey, because I'm not making anywhere near that amount of money. Oh, and we have to pay for medical insurance out of pocket, and our premiums are going up again in October.

I grant you that NJ does pay the highest property taxes in the U.S.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_property_taxes_climb_70_per.html

but when teachers are making these salaries for 190 days' of work (and beginning salaries of almost $48,000 with no years in), and there's a fight every few years for raises, it gets kind of old quickly.


Here's some more info. Notice where Hudson County is on the list of counties, and where Bayonne is in the State (No. 539) .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_locations_by_per_capita_income

Now compare that to the salaries you see above.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Fairfax County, VA is one county that DOES NOT pay their teachers well enough.

Even with a masters you can't get to $90,000. After about 27 years I think it is you can get to $88,000. Even with a PhD you cant get to a 6 figure salary. And at that point, if you have your PhD, you are most likely NOT going to be teaching in a public school. This is in the county that has the highest median income in the country and the COL to match.
Yes, in some places teachers get paid a living wage and they can make excellent salaries early on (Long Island is one example....my cousin is desperately trying to get a job in Long Island...she works in Brooklyn right now). But in many places, teachers DO NOT make a living wage.

.

Take a look around the country right now. I'd venture to say that over 50% of people don't make a "living wage." Welcome to the USA 2010 and it isn't going to get any better no matter who is the White House, Congress, or wherever. The writing has been on the wall for a long time with our economy.