Tax return is nearly $3000 LESS because I worked part-time last year!

[tinkmom2]

We got a shocker when we had our taxes done. In previous years my DH had his exemptions set to take out at married but at the single rate so we usually would get back $5000-7000. This last year we changed it to married. We are getting back around $2000.00. I didn't have any taxes taken out of my part-time job so we had to pay that in too.

 

[ccgirl]

The reality is, there are some in our society that don't have the ability to do college level work. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is, what it is.
I have a relative who is mildly retarded. I'm sure there's some special program in place that would have "allowed" him to go to college, but to what purpose? It's not like he would have come out as a Dr. or Lawyer or even on management level that would justify the expense of taking out student loans. Instead he was set up with a job coach, that assisted him in getting a job in a restaurant, where he has worked for the last 30 years. He's a valued employee at that restaurant, he receives an occasional COL raise, and is able to support himself just fine.
I also have a son who was smack down the middle average in High School. He's always been an outdoor type who would consider a desk job to be equal to a prison sentence. For him, a college education would have been a waste of money. Instead he preferred to work in a field that allowed lots of muscle and sunshine. For him, it made more sense to sign onto an apprenticeship, learn a skill, and work his way up the ladder that way.
Not everyone is meant for college.

I understand with the relative that had a developmental disability. I was the lower end of high school and still made it through college. Most of us have the choice to go to college - however difficult it may be. I think some people use the term they don't have the "ability" incorrectly. Or, they think because it will be too tough they don't have the ability. I realize not all jobs require a college education. I have a friend that is a plumber. He has his own business and makes 6 figures; all the while not attending college. However, he had the ability to go his choice was not to go.

 

[ccgirl]

For the sake of this thread I'll define fair wage as, if you work a full time job, you'll make enough that you won't qualify for the EIC, so others will stop referring to you as the leaches of society who are personally responsible for the national debt, and are not contributing to society. How's that for a start?

I would say a fair wage is one that allows you to keep a roof over your head and food on your table. Going further, the roof does not need to be a 2,000 sq ft house. An apartment is just fine as is children sharing a room. As far as food, it is okay to eat a lot of pasta. Steak and lobster do not need to be provided. I hear so many people complaining that they can't afford to buy a house or they can't afford steak etc. A house is not a necessity nor is steak.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

It is very common for those who are Illegal to have a fake card and file.
So yes, very possible and just as illegal as them being here.

Illegal immigrants can get a ITIN - it is an IRS number JUST for paying taxes. So it is not "fake".

I work with illegals that DO pay their taxes. To make the blanket statement otherwise is incorrect.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wait a minute, I thought minimum wage was raised to a "living wage", how did that work out?? Oh it didn't, it just hurt the economy by raising costs on everything..

So are you saying there shouldn't be a minimum wage? That employers should pay whatever they want?

I'm sorry, but it seems you've been very big on complaining about how the poor is a "drain" on society but haven't given any practical solutions other than to say "the government shouldn't give handouts".

 

[sam_gordon]

I would say a fair wage is one that allows you to keep a roof over your head and food on your table. Going further, the roof does not need to be a 2,000 sq ft house. An apartment is just fine as is children sharing a room. As far as food, it is okay to eat a lot of pasta. Steak and lobster do not need to be provided. I hear so many people complaining that they can't afford to buy a house or they can't afford steak etc. A house is not a necessity nor is steak.

Once again, I agree with everything you say. Minimum wage is $7.25(?)/hour, right? So someone working full time is getting (gross) about $1,160 a month. Assuming there's only one person working (ie: Single Parent household), I'm not sure that's enough for a roof and food. I agree one person could live frugally on that, maybe even two. But for three or more... not sure.

And again, what has happened in the past is someone agrees to take a job for 'x' amount, but after years of no COL increases (but everything they purchase goes up), then is that wage still "fair"?

 

[DVCBELLE]

The reality is, there are some in our society that don't have the ability to do college level work. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is, what it is.
I have a relative who is mildly retarded. I'm sure there's some special program in place that would have "allowed" him to go to college, but to what purpose? It's not like he would have come out as a Dr. or Lawyer or even on management level that would justify the expense of taking out student loans. Instead he was set up with a job coach, that assisted him in getting a job in a restaurant, where he has worked for the last 30 years. He's a valued employee at that restaurant, he receives an occasional COL raise, and is able to support himself just fine.
I also have a son who was smack down the middle average in High School. He's always been an outdoor type who would consider a desk job to be equal to a prison sentence. For him, a college education would have been a waste of money. Instead he preferred to work in a field that allowed lots of muscle and sunshine. For him, it made more sense to sign onto an apprenticeship, learn a skill, and work his way up the ladder that way.
Not everyone is meant for college.

That is not a lack of ability - it is a lack of desire. Many claim that they can't get ahead b/c they didn't go to college. College isn't for everyone - as you evidenced above BUT anyone who wants to has the ability to go.

I know someone who is high functioning autism and is in a special college program - learning skills that will help him work.

Even though your son didn't want to go to college - the opportunity was there he just chose not to take it but he did go on to advanced training.

And for the record: college is like what your son did - learning a skill and working your way up the ladder. Very few people graduate from college and become the CEO of a multi-million dollar company. Sure it happens when they develop a company in college or go to work for a family business but generally speaking most people start at the bottom.

AND using a lack of a college degree as a reason for not being able to make a living is ridiculous. Walt Disney, Bill Gates, Frank Llyod Wright, Steve jobs, Milton Hershey and Henry Ford never attended college. One thing they have in common with all other successful business owners is that they took a risk and worked their butts off to get where they were!

 

[morgan98]

Once again, I agree with everything you say. Minimum wage is $7.25(?)/hour, right? So someone working full time is getting (gross) about $1,160 a month. Assuming there's only one person working (ie: Single Parent household), I'm not sure that's enough for a roof and food. I agree one person could live frugally on that, maybe even two. But for three or more... not sure.

I also agree with the fact that there should be a minimum wage. I also understand that minimum wage is really not enough to live comfortably on. However, I am not sure that the purpose of a minimum wage job is to support a family. I think that minimum wage jobs are meant to be a stepping stone while you are gaining experience, etc., not a job that one would stay at permanently.

The truth of the matter is that almost everyone has financial constraints of some sort. For many people it means delaying having children, or only having one child instead of two. It can also mean having to drive a clunker instead of a newer car. I just don't think it is realistic to think every job can be paid at a wage level to support a family or multiple people on that salary.

On the budget board, we see everyday how hard people work to pay the cheapest price for goods and services. If you want to pay everyone (like stockers at grocery stores, fast food workers, etc.) a wage high enough to raise a family on, people are going to need to be willing to pay more for many things that they currently feel are bargains.

 

[kamik86]

Once again, I agree with everything you say. Minimum wage is $7.25(?)/hour, right? So someone working full time is getting (gross) about $1,160 a month. Assuming there's only one person working (ie: Single Parent household), I'm not sure that's enough for a roof and food. I agree one person could live frugally on that, maybe even two. But for three or more... not sure.

And again, what has happened in the past is someone agrees to take a job for 'x' amount, but after years of no COL increases (but everything they purchase goes up), then is that wage still "fair"?

I have a serious problem with what I bolded above. I also do with the "A living wage is one where you don't get EIC" as someone else said.

Minimum wage is a $15,080 job at full time. So if your single with no children you don't qualify. So for them it is a living wage. It is not your employers fault you had a child and you shouldn't get paid more because you had a child. Thus if you choose to have children it is now on you to figure out how to earn more so you can have a living wage for children.

Someone is always going to be on the bottom of the barrel. No matter how much we raise wages some people will not be able to afford to have children and will be "poor" because they won't have the "basics" everyone else in the country does. The quotes are because even our poor are considered rich by many countries standards. They have TVs and cars and cell phones. My sister that can't pay her bills had a blackberry until she got it shut off for not paying the bill!! I think as a country we have figured out the answer. Our poorest don't have a standard of living where they are dieing from the elements or lack of nutrition. I call that success.

 

[sam_gordon]

I also agree with the fact that there should be a minimum wage. I also understand that minimum wage is really not enough to live comfortably on. However, I am not sure that the purpose of a minimum wage job is to support a family. I think that minimum wage jobs are meant to be a stepping stone while you are gaining experience, etc., not a job that one would stay at permanently.

I have a serious problem with what I bolded above. I also do with the "A living wage is one where you don't get EIC" as someone else said.

Minimum wage is a $15,080 job at full time. So if your single with no children you don't qualify. So for them it is a living wage. It is not your employers fault you had a child and you shouldn't get paid more because you had a child. Thus if you choose to have children it is now on you to figure out how to earn more so you can have a living wage for children.

I agree 100% with both of you. And no, I don't think someone should automatically make more money because they have children. I only brought up the difficulties of living while making minimum wage because HHR implied the minimum wage increase didn't do any good and simply raised prices for everyone else.

Now, it's simple to say you shouldn't have kids until you can afford them. The problem is how do you regulate that? Do we want the government saying "you make enough money, you can have kids... you don't make enough money, you can't have kids"? Let's be honest, while you might think it's common sense NOT to have kids until you can afford it, a) not everyone has common sense, and b) common sense doesn't always factor in during the "heat of the moment".

Now, I do like the idea a PP offered of welfare checks being turned into debit cards and only being able to be used for certain things. You could probably also come up with a certain amount "allowed" for certain spending areas (housing for example).

I agree the system (tax & welfare) is broken. The problem is getting our government to be willing to try to fix it.

 

[ccgirl]

Once again, I agree with everything you say. Minimum wage is $7.25(?)/hour, right? So someone working full time is getting (gross) about $1,160 a month. Assuming there's only one person working (ie: Single Parent household), I'm not sure that's enough for a roof and food. I agree one person could live frugally on that, maybe even two. But for three or more... not sure.

And again, what has happened in the past is someone agrees to take a job for 'x' amount, but after years of no COL increases (but everything they purchase goes up), then is that wage still "fair"?

Thanks. If that isn't enough then you get another job though! Or, the stay at home mom can get a night job or perhaps watch someone else's child during the day. Guess what, I would like to be a stay at home parent too but I also want my child to be able to go to private school, vacations etc and I want to fund a retirement plan as well so I work. Life is about choices and I get so frustrated with people blaming others for the choices they make. I realize some things such as medical issues, etc are not "choices" but are severe obstacles. Financial assistance should be provided for a set amount of time. It just shouldn't be a way of life.

That is not a lack of ability - it is a lack of desire. Many claim that they can't get ahead b/c they didn't go to college. College isn't for everyone - as you evidenced above BUT anyone who wants to has the ability to go.

I know someone who is high functioning autism and is in a special college program - learning skills that will help him work.

Even though your son didn't want to go to college - the opportunity was there he just chose not to take it but he did go on to advanced training.

And for the record: college is like what your son did - learning a skill and working your way up the ladder. Very few people graduate from college and become the CEO of a multi-million dollar company. Sure it happens when they develop a company in college or go to work for a family business but generally speaking most people start at the bottom.

AND using a lack of a college degree as a reason for not being able to make a living is ridiculous. Walt Disney, Bill Gates, Frank Llyod Wright, Steve jobs, Milton Hershey and Henry Ford never attended college. One thing they have in common with all other successful business owners is that they took a risk and worked their butts off to get where they were!

Very well said. Again, most people have the ability but either they don't want to work hard enough to achieve it or college isn't for them. Yet another choice we have in life.

 

[Muushka]

I also agree with the fact that there should be a minimum wage. I also understand that minimum wage is really not enough to live comfortably on. However, I am not sure that the purpose of a minimum wage job is to support a family. I think that minimum wage jobs are meant to be a stepping stone while you are gaining experience, etc., not a job that one would stay at permanently.

The truth of the matter is that almost everyone has financial constraints of some sort. For many people it means delaying having children, or only having one child instead of two. It can also mean having to drive a clunker instead of a newer car. I just don't think it is realistic to think every job can be paid at a wage level to support a family or multiple people on that salary.

On the budget board, we see everyday how hard people work to pay the cheapest price for goods and services. If you want to pay everyone (like stockers at grocery stores, fast food workers, etc.) a wage high enough to raise a family on, people are going to need to be willing to pay more for many things that they currently feel are bargains.

Yes!

I have a serious problem with what I bolded above. I also do with the "A living wage is one where you don't get EIC" as someone else said.

Minimum wage is a $15,080 job at full time. So if your single with no children you don't qualify. So for them it is a living wage. It is not your employers fault you had a child and you shouldn't get paid more because you had a child. Thus if you choose to have children it is now on you to figure out how to earn more so you can have a living wage for children.

Someone is always going to be on the bottom of the barrel. No matter how much we raise wages some people will not be able to afford to have children and will be "poor" because they won't have the "basics" everyone else in the country does. The quotes are because even our poor are considered rich by many countries standards. They have TVs and cars and cell phones. My sister that can't pay her bills had a blackberry until she got it shut off for not paying the bill!! I think as a country we have figured out the answer. Our poorest don't have a standard of living where they are dieing from the elements or lack of nutrition. I call that success.

Like I said in an earlier post, we did not have a car, a phone (no cells back then) and about half the time, no black and white TV.

Yes!

One of the downsides of raising the min wage so high is that kids that need valuable work experience will not be getting it. If businesses have to pay much higher wages, why should they hire a kid? When I look back at my $1.65 an hour job at the Food Basket, yeah, I was paid peanuts, but the work ethics and experience I gained there more than made up for the low salary.

So for all those demanding higher min wages, don't complain that your child can't find a part time job.

 

[sam_gordon]

Thanks. If that isn't enough then you get another job though! Or, the stay at home mom can get a night job or perhaps watch someone else's child during the day.

I agree again. My only sticking point would be single parent households.

 

[sam_gordon]

So for all those demanding higher min wages, don't complain that your child can't find a part time job.

Please show me anyone demanding (or even asking for) higher minimum wages.

 

[livie1205]

Its a refundable tax credit ,so yes, its welfare.. If we as a country are now paying people to live in the country, its a subsidy..

wow you sound pretty vile! If you hate what this country does and how most are living off you then...MOVE ..take your tax dollars somewhere else!We do not get EIC but we almost could,my dh is a LEO and IS nowhere near a drain on this country!Do you relize most LEO,firefighters,teachers and service men and women get this credit?How dare you sit behind a computer screen and talk about how these people are a DRAIN on this country...the the heck would you do if you were hurt,sick or in need of a cop and they were not there?I am sure some milk the gov. and are lazy but alot of people that get that credit WORK! How can you lay safe in bed at night while talking about the men and women that protect your freedom?Do you know how little some of them make?

 

[snowywhite89]

I know many in PA and none get to pay less if they don't use the school. Can you point me to a place that confirms this.

I agree, "working poor" is really dependent upon local costs of living. I don't consider my family working poor. I was working poor years ago, when I was a single mom working part time and going to school full time, and we're a long way from that lifestyle now. But we have qualified for the EIC off and on in the past and probably will again this year since business has been so terribly slow. We don't get anything close to the maximum credit and we usually get little/no return, though I do prefer overpaying to underpaying on our estimated taxes, but I'm not too proud to take any credit that helps to offset the ridiculous tax bill we pay for the privilege of being self-employed.



It worked throughout most of our history. The idea that everyone should pay federal taxes is a fairly recent development on a big picture level.



There's no value in it. Education is an excellent solution at the micro level - it can help an individual greatly. But it isn't an answer at the macro level because the value of a degree is directly dependent upon its' scarcity. Right now, 33% of the American workforce has a degree and 24% of jobs require one; as that trend continues the value of a degree (with the exception of certain fields effected by a significant skills mismatch) will decline.[/QUOTE]

Bolding mine. I disagree there is no value in it. But, I work in a position that requires a college education. I get paid very well because of it. There is always a value in education though, regarless of the position you hold or the money you make. Your statement does not answer the "why" of not everyone can get an education though. I admitted not everyone "wants" one but that is different than the ability to get one.



Bolding mine. I am with you on that one. I pay my property taxes. A portion of my property taxes go toward the public education. My DD is in school but I send her to private school. It's like a double whammy. I have family that live in PA and their property taxes are broken down. They do not pay into the educational system unless they are utilizing it. However, I am torn on this one because I believe every child has a right to an education regarless of their socioeconomic status. At the moment, I think it is a privilege to help those children get an education.

 

[Tigger1]

I look at EIC as the wages for those that work and are underpaid. If Minimum wage was to increase so would the goods we buy. Giving EIC allows business to pay lower wages, keeping prices down.

 

[ccgirl]

I agree again. My only sticking point would be single parent households.

I was from a single parent household where my mom worked two jobs so she didn't have to get financial assistance. Sometimes she would take us to work with her, sometimes a neighbor would watch us and sometimes we stayed home alone. We were over 10. I realize you can't do that until a certain age. I would agree single parent households do make it a bit difficult since there is not another parent to stay home with the small child.

 

[ccgirl]

I know many in PA and none get to pay less if they don't use the school. Can you point me to a place that confirms this.




I'll ask her; I just remember her telling me that.

 

[2disneyboys]

Thanks. If that isn't enough then you get another job though! Or, the stay at home mom can get a night job or perhaps watch someone else's child during the day. Guess what, I would like to be a stay at home parent too but I also want my child to be able to go to private school, vacations etc and I want to fund a retirement plan as well so I work. Life is about choices and I get so frustrated with people blaming others for the choices they make. I realize some things such as medical issues, etc are not "choices" but are severe obstacles. Financial assistance should be provided for a set amount of time. It just shouldn't be a way of life..

This exactly. I made choices for my family for my situation.I didn't want my kids to have to grow up like I did. I have choosen to change my circumstances rather than blame someone else for putting me in the circumstances. sometimes the choices I had to made were not easy or pleasant, however, I was willing to look long term. If someone does not like thier circumstances, then THEY have to make some choices and go with it. It's not my responsiblity to take care of anyone except my family. I take pleasure in helping others out, but it's not my RESPONSIBILITY to do it...