Target employee starts online petition protesting Target's BF hours

[JB2K]

Not sure if this has been addressed, but...

• Anyone opening a Target (or any other retail) store at midnight is going to be paid some sort of "night differential", since Target stores are not traditionally open at that late hour
  
• Anyone coming in to work a few hours early (on Thanksgiving night for BF setup) will be paid holiday pay

Of course, these incentives are usually dictated by state laws (I presume these are faily common "extra" wages in all 50 states).

It's not like these store employees aren't being compsented for their sacrifices/efforts.

Also, looking at the bigger picture, Target always has some (unpublicized) degree of behind the scenes activity that extends well-into Thanksgiving Day (during the period from the time when the store closes to the shopping public on Wednesday evening until their opening on the morning of BF) -- how else do you think those stores get all those special displays set-up and get everything else in the store all nice and spiffy for the customers?

Personally, I think Petition Boy is just trying to cull favor with groups that traditionally do not like the retail machine (Change.org, and maybe a union or two), in general. It wouldn't be the first time Target has been on the receiving end of negative press (you can Google when some Target workers in NY state recently tried to unionize their store as well as the CEOs political donation in Minnesota which caught the ire of certain groups).

In a really tough economy where workers are wanting to earn every dollar possible -- if Petition Boy doesn't want to work at Target at midnight on Black Friday (and would raher have his 15 minutes of fame as "the guy who is trying to change Target"), he needs to resign and find another job with more "agreeable" hours -- trust me, there are plenty of good, employable people out there just waiting in the wings chomping at the bit to get back to work...

 

[Colleen27]

But, I have to wonder if as a society are we damaging something about ourselves with no sacred holidays where the stores will close for a full 24 hours and give their employees the day off.

That's my feeling too. From a purely selfish standpoint, 10pm or midnight openings work better for me personally - I'm a night owl by nature and lining up at Best Buy at 8pm is a heckuva lot easier on my system than leaving the house at 2am to be there at 3! But I do think that we as a society suffer for our increasingly 24/7 lifestyle and for the expectation that there isn't and shouldn't be anything so sacred that it should come before work (even if that work is menial in nature and offers little in the way of pay, opportunity, or job satisfaction).

I'm still undecided on what I'm going to do on Black Friday. Going shopping that morning is a tradition in my family and I am looking forward to DD joining us for the first time this year, but I don't want to be part of the crowds encouraging these super-early holiday openings (I refuse to shop on Christmas Day/Eve too) and I'm not sure there will be any point in going out in the morning because most of the good deals are going to be long gone before our usual 3 or 4am start.

 

[kerplop]

My 2cents.


1) I do not accept the "be grateful you have a job so I'm going to treat you like crap" mentality.
2) I think companies are using this "it's a tough economy" for a convenient excuse to do what they want and simply expect people to roll over and accept it. Bank of America and netflix found out that everyone has a breaking point.
3) I have no problem with the guy trying to make a change. I think most people here tend to accept any thing disney. I love it when people post that you should "be happy" that you got a dirty room because after all it's "disney" LOL
4) there is absolutely nothing I need that bad to make me leave my family on a major holiday to buy
5) I do miss the "good" ole days. Holidays are imo, now simply an excuse to purchase stuff we don't need. I predict that in 10 years the anniversary of 9/11 will be another day to shop.
6) retail is rarely anyone's "profession" the vast majority

You hit every single nail on the head for me here. I don't understand Black Friday in the first place - no sale gets me out of the house on a holiday I don't care how good it is. I also don't place much importance on "stuff", rather I live for experiences and not go get stuff. I can't think of anything that most people "need" that they get on Black Friday, let alone the night before. But in this world and economy people feel they have no choice but to do what an employer wants because otherwise they'll lose their job. Sure this is a weird situation and new territory for retail and yes people should be glad to have jobs, but where does it end?

 

[JB2K]

With our county unemployment over 11%, after applying for any & all jobs for well over 2 yrs, I am grateful to have a job.

So working Thanksgiving is not a choice. Its a necessity!!!

momxx5 - I don't often find myself agreeing with you, but in this particular thread, your posts are "spot-on"!

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I am with eliza and kerplop - where does it end?

we are substituting rampant consumerism for more important things like the importance of family, holidays, and family time....it really is very sad.

 

[eliza61]

Not sure if this has been addressed, but...

• Anyone opening a Target (or any other retail) store at midnight is going to be paid some sort of "night differential", since Target stores are not traditionally open at that late hour
  
  [*]Anyone coming in to work a few hours early (on Thanksgiving night for BF setup) will be paid holiday pay

Of course, these incentives are usually dictated by state laws (I presume these are faily common "extra" wages in all 50 states).

It's not like these store employees aren't being compsented for their sacrifices/efforts.

Also, looking at the bigger picture, Target always has some (unpublicized) degree of behind the scenes activity that extends well-into Thanksgiving Day (during the period from the time when the store closes to the shopping public on Wednesday evening until their opening on the morning of BF) -- how else do you think those stores get all those special displays set-up and get everything else in the store all nice and spiffy for the customers?

QUOTE]

Hey JB, do you know if this is "all employees"? I remember when I worked at Sears many, many moons ago this only kicked in if you were "full time". so a favorite ploy of sears was they would keep you 2 hours or so under 40 hours and then work you like a mule, without the shift differential.
they do that with their benefits also. they have benefits but you have to work so many hours in a month to qualify and believe me, management does every thing in their power (they even got finicial awards) to keep most of the employees under that threshold.

disclaimer: It's been a very long time since I worked retail. I could be 100% off base here.

 

[SDSorority]

 

[jrmasm]

I thought the hours he is protesting was Thanksgiving? Did I read it wrong?

You're right, black friday most people in retail expect to work. THANKSGIVING though is a major holiday even in retail I would not expect to work.

Yes, he is protesting working on Thanksgiving. Kmart and Walmart have been open on Thanksgiving for years so I really don't find Target opening at midnight to be shocking.

Again, don't want to work the hours, don't work retail. Or in a restaraunt, or at a gas station, or a drug store or in a hospital etc. etc. etc.

And if you don't like that store are open on Thanksgiving, at 3am, 5am etc. etc. etc., don't go shopping.

 

[Lewisc]

Well said.

Policemen, firemen, hospital workers etc are needed. Hotels and restaurants which cater to people traveling around holidays need to be open. I can't think of a single reason why a customer needs to buy a TV set on Thanksgiving.

It's not even clear if the people who line up for hours, sometimes more then a day, are even profitable customers. I think some of the stores just want the free publicity associated with the mob of customers in the middle of the night.

You're right he's not a victim. He's actively trying to change some thing he sees as unfair. Sorry but I actually have more respect for people who try to better their situation than those who just "suck it up" and "accept any type of treatment". Where do we draw the line? some one harrasses you, do you "suck it up"? Your job puts you in a unsafe or unhealthy situation? "suck it up".

I am so thankful this year that I work for an employeer who values their employees and doesn't tell us to "suck it up" when we have complaints.

What I find so interesting is that a few weeks ago, people were saying how the occupy wall street folks need to "do something" to change the system instead of protesting and rioting, yet here you get a guy who is actually doing that, yet we tell him to "suck it up". LOL.

 

[SaraJayne]

You're right he's not a victim. He's actively trying to change some thing he sees as unfair. Sorry but I actually have more respect for people who try to better their situation than those who just "suck it up" and "accept any type of treatment". Where do we draw the line? some one harrasses you, do you "suck it up"? Your job puts you in a unsafe or unhealthy situation? "suck it up".

I am so thankful this year that I work for an employeer who values their employees and doesn't tell us to "suck it up" when we have complaints.

What I find so interesting is that a few weeks ago, people were saying how the occupy wall street folks need to "do something" to change the system instead of protesting and rioting, yet here you get a guy who is actually doing that, yet we tell him to "suck it up". LOL.

I feel the same about DH's employer. Their motto is family comes first. Seeing as they are a family owned company, it's easy for them to put their money where their mouth is.

We just received our annual Harry & David's Thanksgiving box, with a note in it thanking the employees for their year of hard work and how they are so thankful for their employees.

 

[JB2K]

Hey JB, do you know if this is "all employees"? I remember when I worked at Sears many, many moons ago this only kicked in if you were "full time".

Yes, it should be for all hourly employees regardless of PT/FT status. The only ones exempted would be salaried employees, such as the store manager and maybe, a couple of others.

so a favorite ploy of sears was they would keep you 2 hours or so under 40 hours and then work you like a mule, without the shift differential.
they do that with their benefits also. they have benefits but you have to work so many hours in a month to qualify and believe me, management does every thing in their power (they even got finicial awards) to keep most of the employees under that threshold.

Again, these are state laws intended to protect the non-management wokers (without the need for unions, etc. to step-in).

 

[Zhoen]

I think the larger issue here is an interesting societal question. How far are we, as a society, willing to go to honor greed and the almighty dollar? And it's not just a question for the employers, but for the people who want to and will shop at any hour of any day. Is it really so hard to wait one more day to buy that piece of cheap Chinese crap? Is it worth making people leave their families so we can have a little more time to shop? At some point society is going to have to come to grips with which is more important: Spending money/making money, or spending time with family and friends and enjoying what blessings we already have.

I don't like what BF has become. The violence, riots, meanness, etc.

I don't understand Black Friday in the first place - no sale gets me out of the house on a holiday I don't care how good it is. I also don't place much importance on "stuff", rather I live for experiences and not go get stuff. I can't think of anything that most people "need" that they get on Black Friday, let alone the night before. But in this world and economy people feel they have no choice but to do what an employer wants because otherwise they'll lose their job. Sure this is a weird situation and new territory for retail and yes people should be glad to have jobs, but where does it end?

I agree with both of you, but that said, as I mentioned, I do, or at least *did* like Black Friday, so I can try to explain. My first black friday excursion was in the 90's, I was a newlywed, and we were starting with not "nothing", but definitely "nothing much." We worked hard, but were young and on a budget, so EVERY little bit counted. I remember that year that every time I bought something for the apartment, I wrapped it up so there would be more under the tree. So for that black friday, the half-price dishes, the half-price towels and blankets... all of that helped us to have a more comfortable home for the rest of that year... it gave us something to open... it gave me utensils to cook the generic hamburger helper with And, I'll always remember, that year, JCPenney handed me a Norman Rockwell tree ornament just for walking through the door... it had a surprise coupon on the back that saved us a little more, but, more importantly, it was just a nice surprise. We'd just bought our 1/2 price Christmas tree, but we only had our "our first Christmas" ornament to hang on it... so that ornament was nice for us. We still have it, and I still smile when we hang it on the tree...

These days things aren't so dire for us, but I have always had so much fun at the sales in the past (there is an energy that goes through the crowd, and MOST people are nice... there are about 5% who are awful, and they are usually pretty loud, too, but you have to choose to not to let them ruin your mood) that I keep going out.

The sales allow me to buy my children some of the gifts they want at a price I can feel ok about, and the money we save? Some years we buy extra for Salvation Army/Toys For Tots, but since my sister was widowed last year, we've mostly been focusing closer to home. Last year I took her older daughters with me when I went, and they used the money they'd earned babysitting to be able to buy gifts for their family. Last year was my sister's first Christmas without her husband, and it was critically important to me that she not be left with nothing for herself under the tree. Honestly, the sales helped make that possible.

So... that is why I like(d) to go... most of the year we are very conservative in our buying, by choice... but this is one time I feel ok to "let go" a little.

*BUT* When I have to choose between being with my children or buying for my children... I'll be staying home.

 

[Jey12]

Yes, it should be for all hourly employees regardless of PT/FT status. The only ones exempted would be salaried employees, such as the store manager and maybe, a couple of others.



Again, these are state laws intended to protect the non-management wokers (without the need for unions, etc. to step-in).

It could be different but in the lovely state of Kansas holiday pay is not mandatory. There are no holidays that the state says your employer must pay you a different rate. The only time they have to pay you a higher rate is when you work more than 40 hours in a predetermined work week. They also do not have to promise you any schedule. They (the employer) can schedule you to work whenever they feel like it, and if you don't show you can be reprimanded or fired. You can be fired at any time for any reason, and in return you can quit or leave your job at any time for any reason. The employer does not even have to give you a break if they chose not to no matter how long your shift is. They just have to pay you the federal law of time and a half for any time over the 40 hours during a normal work week.

This is why I say the problem is with the state you work in. If you don't want to work holidays or be compensated better take it up with your state's Department of Labor. Some states have laws and regulations pertaining to this, many are right to work states and do not. Last I was aware 22 states were right to work and have a similar lack of laws pertaining to holiday pay. It is your responsibility as an employee in that state to know your rights as a worker.

 

[barbarabini]

I can't think of one thing that would make me get up out of bed in the middle of the night to go buy or spend a holiday shopping in a store. There is nothing I want that bad.


Also, I don't think the sales are that great anyway. Usually cheap prices on significantly crappy electronics. Wait it out till Dec 23 and you will see the good stuff come down in price.

 

[luvmy3]

Yes, he is protesting working on Thanksgiving. Kmart and Walmart have been open on Thanksgiving for years so I really don't find Target opening at midnight to be shocking.

Again, don't want to work the hours, don't work retail. Or in a restaraunt, or at a gas station, or a drug store or in a hospital etc. etc. etc.

And if you don't like that store are open on Thanksgiving, at 3am, 5am etc. etc. etc., don't go shopping.

Exactly

 

[eliza61]

Yes, it should be for all hourly employees regardless of PT/FT status. The only ones exempted would be salaried employees, such as the store manager and maybe, a couple of others.



Again, these are state laws intended to protect the non-management wokers (without the need for unions, etc. to step-in).

Thats good to know. It has been so long since I worked retail. the last time it was back when the manager would come around to each department and make sure the girls had on hoisery!!!

 

[labdogs42]

There are tons of people out there who don't work retail that also have to work those days. Manufacturing doesn't take many vacations or holidays either. Where do you think bread and milk for the holidays comes from? Do you think dairy workers get a lot of days off? How about the people in the newspaper industry? It isn't just retail. People work 24/7 shift work all the time in a lot of different industries. I have a really hard time feeling bad for someone who has to work retail on black friday. Suck it up. Sorry.

 

[Kteacher]

Not sure if this has been addressed, but...

• Anyone opening a Target (or any other retail) store at midnight is going to be paid some sort of "night differential", since Target stores are not traditionally open at that late hour
  
• Anyone coming in to work a few hours early (on Thanksgiving night for BF setup) will be paid holiday pay

Of course, these incentives are usually dictated by state laws (I presume these are faily common "extra" wages in all 50 states).

It's not like these store employees aren't being compsented for their sacrifices/efforts.

I've worked retail for over 30 years, p/t @ J C Penney for the past 17. I have always worked the early shift on BF. It's gets earlier every year. The past few years my start time is 3 a.m., and there is no shift differential. We are also required to work longer shifts on this day-the average shift is 10 hrs, but some are as long as 12. Breaks are as short as the company can legally get away with. I've been yelled at by customers when I leave to take my meal break I think there is just a general feeling of a loss of civility on BF.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, but he can still have sympathy for his co-workers that are scheduled that day, when they'd rather spend time with their families.

If someone volunteered to work that day, that's great and they should have been scheduled.

Then he should have worded his whine differently. He is complaining as though HE were the one working. I have a problem with that. HE is not being inconvenienced.

My husband couldn't propose on Valetine's Day because I had to work. I think in the end, something happened and I did not have to work. But we lived and the proposal was still cool when it was possible for the plans to go the way he wanted. As it were, he proposed on my dinner break a little bit later from that same job. My boss let me come back late.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You hit every single nail on the head for me here. I don't understand Black Friday in the first place - no sale gets me out of the house on a holiday I don't care how good it is.

FTR, Black Friday is not a holiday.

We have also become a society that likes to S T R E T C H celebrations into a 3, 4, or 5 day "weekend".