Talking about budget buster! Gasoline...

[JENOS]

If you google the question, you will find lots of information. Basically, a carbon credit is a permit that allows the holder to emit one ton of carbon dioxide.It has to do with global warming, the stock market, people investing in something that does not exist and redistribution of wealth.

Purchasing carbon credits so that the carbon you produce (industry for example) will offset the carbon footprint you have left. And who do you think will end up paying for these carbon credits that companies will have to buy? Not the owner, that is for sure. They will pass the cost on down to the consumer. It deals with transfer of wealth from richer countries to poorer countries. I believe It will impact every aspect of business and subsequently, the consumer.

Climate change legislation has not passed, but unless we all become aware of the situation, it may.

I just saw this on Penn & Tellers (Bullsh*t) on Netflix, Al Gore started a company that sells carbon credits but instead of reducing his footprint he keeps living in his mansion and just buys credits from his own company. They reviewed a couple of companies that sell carbon credits and neither was consistent with a formula on how to calculate what type of footprint you actually leave behind.

 

[Muushka]

I agree that we have to do something to help the environment but the fact that gas prices raise the price of everything. There is not a hybrid 18 wheeler so that is not even a choice of changing cars or not. When we bought our last car we consider a hybrid but it just didn't work for us. I don't like SUV and all the hybrid cars that were in the market were too small. We have 5 dogs (and most times a foster so 6) and 2 cats. We live were close to the water and we had to evacuate a couple of times. We need a car that could fit all our animals because leaving them behind it is not an option. We even took them to the dealership to try to see if they fit it was a no.

Global warming is not a proven scientific fact. Our lives are going to be (and currently are) adversely affected by all of the measures that some will take to promote the idea.
The price we will all pay is going to be significant, and for what?

 

[Purseval]

Actually if you read what Obama said about gas prices in 2008 you will find he has no problem with higher prices. Even adding to the tax on gas to help encourage people to buy the hybrid cars.

I made that point in post #30 with our Energy Secretary, Steven Chu. So you essentially have the 2 people in the best position to do something about it on the record saying that this situation we are in now would be just fine with them. Not only that their strategy is working since gasoline consumption by American drivers has dropped since the price rise started.

 

[momof1princess]

carbon credits are a scam. plain and simple. just like those "revolutionary diet pills" you see on TV.

as for global warming, well, i don't doubt that we produce too much pollution; HOWEVER, IMHO (as a pp said, global warming hasn't been scientifically proven, and if it ever is, i will admit i was wrong), the warming of the earth is a natural cycle. i'm not the only one who thinks so. here's the point of view of a well-respected meteorologist.

http://www.jamesspann.com/blog.htm

 

[Colleen27]

exactly. higher gas prices raise the price of EVERYTHING, and trucking companies don't have the option of buying hybrid vehicles.
there is also the problem of those who can't afford to buy new cars, even though they work their butts off, day after day...what are THEY supposed to do? many hardworking folks don't have the option of going out and buying a new car. i guess that's just too bad for them, huh? they'll just have to go without food, medications and decent housing so they can afford to drive back and forth to work. yeah, good plan, way to stimulate economic recovery.

It is a double-edged blade, though, because keeping oil prices artificially low due to worries about all of those very valid issues in the short term discourages innovation and investment in alternative technologies. At some point we're not going to be able to continue to keep those prices down, with China industrializing rapidly and needing an ever-increasing share of the world's oil production. It isn't just about the environment; it is about the fact that our entire way of life is build on something that isn't going to last.

So early in a very fragile economic recovery isn't the ideal time to start facing these issues, but they do need to be faced and in a free market it isn't going to happen when oil prices are so low that there's no profit incentive for developing alternatives.

 

[Muushka]

It is a double-edged blade, though, because keeping oil prices artificially low due to worries about all of those very valid issues in the short term discourages innovation and investment in alternative technologies. At some point we're not going to be able to continue to keep those prices down, with China industrializing rapidly and needing an ever-increasing share of the world's oil production. It isn't just about the environment; it is about the fact that our entire way of life is build on something that isn't going to last.

So early in a very fragile economic recovery isn't the ideal time to start facing these issues, but they do need to be faced and in a free market it isn't going to happen when oil prices are so low that there's no profit incentive for developing alternatives.

Who is keeping oil prices artificially low? We pay what the market will bear in this country, right?

 

[Marionnette]

Who is keeping oil prices artificially low? We pay what the market will bear in this country, right?

I was thinking the same thing. The reason that we don't pay the high prices that Europeans pay is because of the taxes that Europeans place on gasoline. Virtually half of all the money they spend on a tank of gas goes to taxes. Americans pay 18.4 cents per gallon in federal excise tx and then additional state taxes (in PA it's around 31 cents per gallon).

 

[Purseval]

Who is keeping oil prices artificially low? We pay what the market will bear in this country, right?

Yes we do. Europe is the opposite. They keep the price artificially high with massive taxes. That is the model our leaders would love to emulate if they thought they could do it and avoid being ridden out of town on a rail.

 

[marie1203]

Global warming is not a proven scientific fact. Our lives are going to be (and currently are) adversely affected by all of the measures that some will take to promote the idea.
The price we will all pay is going to be significant, and for what?

I never talked about global warming. There is a lot of other problems that using gas in our car causes. For one when we drill we kill the ecosystem around, accidents like the gulf last year happen, pollution in the air, etc.

 

[Muushka]

I never talked about global warming. There is a lot of other problems that using gas in our car causes. For one when we drill we kill the ecosystem around, accidents like the gulf last year happen, pollution in the air, etc.

Oops, you are right. You mentioned the environment and I jumped to conclusions!

But speaking of ecosystems and oil spills, other countries are drilling in the Gulf area. They could easily have a spill and the ecosystem could be affected. I think that the USA would be more careful than other countries (countries (Brazil for example) that we actually loaned 2 billion dollars to to drill oil ).

Can you tell I believe that we need to drill for our own oil?

 

[Disneycrazymom]

I agree that we have to do something to help the environment but the fact that gas prices raise the price of everything. There is not a hybrid 18 wheeler so that is not even a choice of changing cars or not. When we bought our last car we consider a hybrid but it just didn't work for us. I don't like SUV and all the hybrid cars that were in the market were too small. We have 5 dogs (and most times a foster so 6) and 2 cats. We live were close to the water and we had to evacuate a couple of times. We need a car that could fit all our animals because leaving them behind it is not an option. We even took them to the dealership to try to see if they fit it was a no.

Just to be sure you understand I am not saying that the Obama Economic Advisers in 2008 said it!

I don't agree with it at all!!!

 

[Muushka]

I just saw this on Penn & Tellers (Bullsh*t) on Netflix, Al Gore started a company that sells carbon credits but instead of reducing his footprint he keeps living in his mansion and just buys credits from his own company. They reviewed a couple of companies that sell carbon credits and neither was consistent with a formula on how to calculate what type of footprint you actually leave behind.

Yeah. The hypocrisy is glaring, isn't it.

The NYSE will make a bundle on these carbon credits, in addition to the Al Gores of the world.

Can you imagine, trading on the stock market for something that does not even exist? We live in a very strange world.
And we will all pay the price.

 

[moburg]

If you trade a van that gets 20mpg for a hybrid that gets 40 mpg, it will take an average of 3.5 years to make up the difference in gas cost versus the increased cost of the vehicle over a non-hybrid version. Spending $30,000 (prius) or $40,000 (Volt)to save $2,400-$3,000 a year in gas doesn't compute. That's what they don't understand in Washington.

Especially if you needed the size of a minivan and trading "up" to a Prius or Volt. No sense at all.

We just traded "down" from a Camry to a Sienna. Our MPG will go from 30 to 20. But we needed the size of a minivan. And we tend to search out the ethanol free gas, which is 10 to 20 cents more expensive, but well worth it.

 

[moburg]

Steven Chu, Secretary of Energy, is a firm believer in eco-friendly energy sources. In 2008 he said that we should find a way to boost gasoline prices up to European levels in order to stimulate Americans to try to find ways to use less fossil fuels and move closer to where they work (in an eco-perfect world almost everyone lives in cities):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html

When he became Energy Secretary he backed off of that statement and now has the position that rising gas prices will hurt the economy. But you can change what you say and not what you think, I doubt he's very upset over the rise in prices. The President is also a champion of alternative energy sources and his advice to the gentleman with 10 kids who was worried about rising gas prices to "get a hybrid" indicates that when it comes to coping with the high price of gas we're on our own.

I'm not sure why some are so surprised by the rise in gas prices. There have been more than a handful of people wishing it for many years, and many of them are in positions of power now to see it happen.

 

[moburg]

What should he have said? Drive more efficiently, combine trips, live closer to where you work, walk/bike more? These are all pretty obvious...the best way to decrease the impact of rising gas prices is to cut down on your consumption and driving a hybrid or more efficient vehicle is probably going to have the greatest impact.

I'm sure he does care, rising gas prices will certainly hurt the economy, but there is not a whole lot HE can do to ease the pain!

He could help us increase OUR domestic sources of oil, instead of helping Brazil increase theirs. Just sayin'.

 

[Muushka]

He could help us increase OUR domestic sources of oil, instead of helping Brazil increase theirs. Just sayin'.

To the tune of 2 billion dollars. I wonder how many people realize this?

 

[moburg]

If anything it makes it sound worse, because not only is it financially out of touch it is completely ignorant of hybrid availability as well. There are no hybrid vans available on the American market.

Toyota has repeatedly delayed bringing their hybrid Sienna minivan, which is available overseas, to the US market. There are plans for a Prius "minivan" but it still only seats 5 (which to me should be called a Prius hatchback - it isn't a minivan without higher seating capacity).

The American automakers have all but given up on a reasonably fuel-efficient vehicle that can seat more than 5. Chrysler is the only of the Big 3 still making a minivan, and it gets the same 17/24mpg as the 7-seater Ford Flex SUV.

There are two main reasons for the high MPG of the Prius and other similar hybrids, low weight of the car and aerodynamics. Neither of those work in the favor of minivans or SUV's. Even the Camry hybrid only increased MPG from 32 to 35 (or something close to that). Not that big a deal and not worth the premium. I remember reading a few years ago about some SUV hybrids increasing from 19 to 20 or 21 or something like that. Useless and a complete waste considering the cost premium of the hybrid.

 

[momof1princess]

He could help us increase OUR domestic sources of oil, instead of helping Brazil increase theirs. Just sayin'.

bingo! instead of paying brazil 2 billion dollars to develop their oil sources, how about we use that money to develop our own, so we don't have to be dependent on other countries?

 

[Muushka]

bingo! instead of paying brazil 2 billion dollars to develop their oil sources, how about we use that money to develop our own, so we don't have to be dependent on other countries?

I'll do you one better!. How about we not use tax payers money to develop our oil.
Let the oil companies spend their money! It is called capitalism, and it works!

 

[moburg]

And that's it exactly - we need someone to step forward and say "This is our plan, let's get this under control".

You probably didn't mean me, but here is my plan: Drill, Drill, Drill! Off shore, ANWAR, Oil Shale, anywhere and everywhere! At the same time, work to improve the alternatives, because they aren't anywhere near efficient enough at present to replace much of anything. All of this will allow us to dump some foreign oil. As alternatives increase in efficiency, dump a little more foreign oil. When it increases enough to dump all foreign oil, then we can start backing off our domestic oil. Eventually alternatives will take over and oil consumption will be at a bare minimum.


Edit: Colleen27, I finally finished reading your post and realized you said about the same thing. So .. great idea! I like it!