Taking your child out of school for holidays.

[patdavies]

Her,here AndRu


They have a weeks holiday then another day is added on for INSET.Why couldn't they have teacher training days in the hols instead of the extra day.

Im also fed up with my daughters teacher's taking morning's or afternoons off to go to the dentist or doctor's.Why school finishes at 3.15 i'm sure they can go later.


Teacher rant over.

As to the first - I think I have explained why.

I presume that any appointment for your daughter is also after 3:15 so that she does not miss school or disrupt a lesson by leaving early or arriving late.

 

[florida sun]

.

2) For all those of you who willingly take their children out of school in term time simply because it is cheaper. How would you feel if teacher's took 2 weeks off for the same reason? Education is a contract; the school will provide the teaching and you provide the attendance of the children.[/QUOTE]
Pat
I hope you dont mind me asking, but as you feel very strongly about this, do you have children and have you ever taken them out of school.
Sue

 

[vicky1bfc]

We do always make appointments for after school,its not really that hard,after all as said school finishes at 3.15 so you have aleast 3 hours where you could go to apointment's,same for teacher's.

 

[AndRu]

I'm contracted to work 08:30 - 17:00 5 days a week but like millions of others it doesn't stop me working longer hours for nothing. Oh look, the TUC has shown this in a report issued (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4149835.stm) just today. I don't have to work extra and I could (in theory) walk out at 17:00 on the dot everyday but if I did? Er, no thanks. There is an engrained culture in the IT industry to work long hours and as such, I am expected to do so.

Basically, I have to work for nothing when doing these extra hours. I find it a bit rich for teachers to complain about time off - they could (should?) give up one of the 6 weeks in the summer to do their training.

You can't have it both ways. If we have to keep our kids in school and only take them on holiday during breaks, then teachers should make sure that they do their training during the same period.

 

[patdavies]

.

Pat
I hope you dont mind me asking, but as you feel very strongly about this, do you have children and have you ever taken them out of school.
Sue

I have 2 children. 1 now at university and the other in Yr 11. I have taken them out of primary school for 1 week in October. This was not for cheapness, but the only time that I could get holiday that particular year. We worked with the school to ensure that they took work with them and supervised the extra work they had to do to catch up on their return. If we had fwelt that they would not have caught up, we wouldn't have taken them - we worked with the school ( and this was long before I ever became a govenor; and not at this particuar school anyway)

 

[vicky1bfc]

So if you don't mind me asking,why have you been going on about the "education contract" and saying we shouldn't be taking our children out of school,if you have done the same thing.

None of us have said we LIKE taking them out,we just really don't have a choice if we want a holiday.

 

[patdavies]

Because, contrary to popular belief, children do not catch up easily and and do not settle straight back into school.

That one week that we took was an eye-opener when both the class teacher and the head teacher explained (and demonstrated) just how disruptive it was. They were not 'anti', just properly concerned. They demonstrated the extra work required of both the child and the teacher - also the disruption to the remainder of the class.

 

[AndRu]

... yet its OK for teachers to have training days and dissrupt parents lives???!!??!!??!!

 

[ChildsPlayDG]

ok, so never mind the modern day politically correct mad world we live in and our own kids but who, when kids themselves, where taken out of school to go on holidays. Any that where, did you do badly in your exams ? Have you got crap jobs now ?

I for one was taken out of school every year (last week sept/first week oct) because that is when my family where on holiday, this was from the first year at primary right up to fifth year in high school. Didn't do me any harm at all.

Mind you we didn't have children being put through assessment testing at 6 years old, there kids, and as such should be enjoying themselves and playing games, learning to be children, not being pressurised into passing exams. I wouldn't mind so much if it was 'for their sake' but its not, its for the sake of the school who get marked badly if the kids dont do well.

I dont feel at all guilty about taking them out of school in the slightest, apart from being the only time we could afford to go, I dont personally think it makes the slightest bit of difference.

 

[florida sun]

Right

Pat I noticed from an old thread of yours that you mention you have taken your children out of school for family holidays before, I think the point here is that at that time it suited you to do it regardless of the fact it was not down to money, which does not seem to be the issue for you, but for most of us on here it is. We want a quality time holiday with our children which we can afford, and I think as long as most parents use their common sense and not pick exam times,sats, etc then a few days missing school wont hurt. I dont do it now because my daughter is in high school and is at exam stages, but I did do it when she was younger,and I dont think she has suffered for it.

Sue

 

[patdavies]

I'm contracted to work 08:30 - 17:00 5 days a week but like millions of others it doesn't stop me working longer hours for nothing. Oh look, the TUC has shown this in a report issued (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4149835.stm) just today. I don't have to work extra and I could (in theory) walk out at 17:00 on the dot everyday but if I did? Er, no thanks. There is an engrained culture in the IT industry to work long hours and as such, I am expected to do so.

Basically, I have to work for nothing when doing these extra hours.

No you don't have to and it is your choice to work these extra hours for nothing. Just because you choose to, does this mean that everybody else must also?? I don't. The TUC are complaining about long (and unpaid) extra hours and you are effectively perpetuating the culture.

I have already explained why INSET days occur in term-time and it is the fault (if there must be a fault) of HM Government; not teachers or schools. Presumably if you receive training, you expect it to be during your working week, not during your holidays. Why should this be different for anybody else (read teachers)? Most school tack INSET days onto school holidays rather than putting them in mid-week/term.

 

[Claire44]

We have always taken our children out but have limited it to 1 week tied in with half term normally October. My DD is now 21 and has a good job, it certainly hasn't done her any harm and she has wonderful memories of family holidays which we otherwise wouldn't have been able to take. DS is now 13 and he normally misses 1 week of school in October (the week before half term). We wouldn't be able to go in the summer holidays as we really couldn't stand the heat and love October with halloween. In the last school year the only time DS had off was the week for his holiday, he had no time off sick and dentist, doctors appointments, etc. are always made for outside school time.

At the end of the day he didn't have any more time out than most of his friends who have had the odd days off sick where DS knows that if I can detect a pulse he has to go to school which he is happy with as he enjoys his holiday so much.

I think as others have said children can learn so much from their travels and they are only children for a short time and to me happy childhood memories are more important.

 

[AndRu]

patdavies - it does not matters when the teachers add on their training days, it matters that they have them in term-time. Each time they do this they inconvinience us as we have to find alternative forms of child care, either we take an extra days holiday or we have to pay for child-minders.

Why is it right for your teaching staff to break this "contract" by forcing our children to miss out on their education AND hit us in the pocket at the same time by refusing to do their training during the numerous holiday periods? If its OK for teachers to break your contract, its certainly OK for me too.

If our kids were trouble makers, if they were dissruptive in class, if they swore at their teachers, if they didn't go to school in immaculate uniform everyday and most importantly, if they weren't performing well - then the school might have a point about stopping them going. As it is, none of the above is true and whether the school likes it or not, they are going to miss the week after February half term whilst we are away.

The quote from Claire44 has made the most poignant comment when she says:

"Children can learn so much from their travels and they are only children for a short time and to me happy childhood memories are more important."

If only head teachers and governers realised this above league tables SAT scores our schools would be much better places for our children.

 

[Flo_and_co]

Couldn't agree more with AndRu on this one

my children have *always* missed at least one week of school (usually 2) during October

My oldest is now nearly 15, and recently got level 7s in all of his SATs (pretty much the top mark)

Middle son is 13, and he topped the board in all of his last SATs too (2 5s, 1 6), with 3 or 4 being average for that age group

So quite frankly, even if I am doing them a slight dis-service by making them miss a couple of weeks of lessons, it doesn't seem to be doing them the slightest bit of harm, academically

 

[Miffy2003]

I'm not a teacher but I know I would be less than impressed if my employer expected me to give up 5 days of my annual leave allocation to go in for training.

As to the original question, there are different viewpoints on this subject and I respect all of them. As parents we all do the best we can for our children, don't we?

 

[cheryl.UK]

Actually Flo, far be it for me to say ... but 71% of kids got Level 5or above in English, 73% got level 5+ in Maths and 68% got Level 5+ in Science this year. Increasingly the top of Level 5 is the average.

 

[AndRu]

I'm not a teacher but I know I would be less than impressed if my employer expected me to give up 5 days of my annual leave allocation to go in for training.

But when they have two weeks off at Xmas, 2 weeks at Easter, Half term weeks scattered throughout the year and, oh yeah, 6 weeks holiday in the summer ... I'm sure they could fit training somewhere in there instead of taking it in term time and dissrupting our childrens education

 

[patdavies]

But when they have two weeks off at Xmas, 2 weeks at Easter, Half term weeks scattered throughout the year and, oh yeah, 6 weeks holiday in the summer ... I'm sure they could fit training somewhere in there instead of taking it in term time and dissrupting our childrens education

As I have said before, the nationally agreed contract for teachers is 195 days per year. You may have to work more that that and only get 20 days holiday per year - but that is your contract. To match like for like, would you give up 5 of your 20 days at your employers demand for work training?

I will point out now, that I know nothing of your personal contract of employment and am speaking generically.

 

[gilld]

What no-one seems to have mentioned is that most, if not all teachers spent hours of their own time preparing lessons EVERY night and much of the weekends too. I'm not a teacher but my son is doing PGCE Maths training now and I worked at an infant school for 9 years until recently.

Most also give up about the last week of the summer holidays to prepare for the new year. I think asking them to give up another 5 days for training, which the government specifies should be during termtime, is asking too much.

 

[AndRu]

365 days in year - take off 104 days for weekends leaves 261 working days.
If teachers are contracted to work 195 of these, that means they get 66 days off. Not bad!

Yet they still have to cause us an inconvinience by taking training days when they should be teaching? And taking my kids out of school to be on holiday makes me a bad, irresponsible parent?

Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Either teachers should use some of their ample leave for their training, after all, it is to benefit both them & the pupils - or they should let us look after our children in a manner that we see fit.

I wish I got 66 days leave and every weekend off ... bliss!